Is yoga demonic or no?

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Pope Benedict > LilyM
Pope Benedict when NOT speaking with Magisterial authority, which he is not in this case, is NOT > LilyM. And a third party quoting what he is saying - which may or may not be referring to the exercises as pure exercises - is most assuredly not more authoritative than me!
 
Part of an interview of Cardinal J. Ratzinger (the present Pope Benedict XVI)
by Ignazio Artizzu “Una voce grida…” (No.9, March 1999) The questions and answers concern magic and occultism. Since this sphere is closely connected with the spiritual substance of paganism, let us notice at least some of them.

St. Paul on Cyprus publicly calls the sorcerer Elymas the son of the devil. So can we safely claim that behind magic and the world of occultism is always the presence of the devil?

“Yes, I would say that without the devil… this world of magic and occultism would not be possible…”

Is this condemnation by St. Paul the root of the Church’s condemnation of magic and occultism?

“Yes, it is… One cannot use these practices which are characteristic of pagan religions…”

What then is the danger for those who practise magic and occultism?

“… Let us admit that one joins a particular sect or magic group. One will become not only a slave of this group but also a slave of the reality which is behind this group, that is of reality which is really demonic. And one thus runs into a still greater self-destruction, worse than narcotics.”

Do you suppose that there is a deep bond between the spread of Oriental religions and the current explosion of occultism?

“Undoubtedly, there is a deep bond.”

Can “Christian yoga” exist?

“The risk is the fact that yoga will become an independent method of ‘salvation’ which lacks a true encounter of God and a human being. And in this case we already find ourselves in transcendence. The truth is that even in Christian prayer and contemplation the posture of body is important and renders the inward state, which is likewise expressed in the Liturgy. In yoga, however, the movements of body render a different inner content.”

Is it possible to draw a parallel between mantras and the Christian prayer?

“Mantras are a prayer turning not to God but to other deities, which are idols.”

Urs von Balthasar said about transcendental meditation that it is a betrayal of the relation to the Christian faith. Do you agree with it, too?

“Yes, I do.” For God Transcendent, the person who called me and loves me, is deformed in a
transcendental dimension of being. I think it is necessary to distinguish between the good God
Transcendent and transcendental. While the Transcendent is a person who has created me, the
is a transcendental dimension of being and therefore implies a philosophy of identity. The path
Transcendental Meditation, taken in its ultimate intentions, has this tendency to drive
to plunge into the identity, and so it is exactly opposite to the Christian, who knows
also a union of identity. Christ identified with us and so we enter into His body, but it is
a different identification, made in love, which is always a personal identity
distinct, while the Transcendental Meditation involves the plunge, let the “dissolve” in the
identity of the Supreme Being.

Yoga has nothing to do with magic or occultism as then Cardinal Ratzinger spoke about.

To link this to Yoga Exercise merely shows you have a negative bias that can’t be penetrated with any amount of truth or logic when it comes to Yoga.

It’s attitudes like you expressed here, which makes reluctant to participate in this forum.

Jim
 
the interview with then Cardinal Ratzinger is only an example of a church official trying to express that there could be dangers with yoga. It of course is not conclusive! I don’t think the poster meant for it to be conclusive.

To say that assanas (yoga poses) are not used for “salvation” is correct. Assanas are actually used to break the cycle of death and rebirth! My uncle is a yogi so I’ve had first hand knowledge, and you can do research to verify that. Yoga completely denies salvation. More specifically, salvation through Jesus Christ.
 
The English meaning of the word, “mantras,” is;
plural man·tras
[count] 1 : a sound, word, or phrase that is repeated by someone who is praying or meditating
2 : a word or phrase that is repeated often or that expresses someone’s basic beliefs
So, repeating the Jesus Prayer or the Hail Mary’s from the English definition, is a mantra.

Obviously, the word means something different to a Hindu.

Jim
 
“The risk is the fact that yoga will become an independent method of ‘salvation’ which lacks a true encounter of God and a human being."

That is a risk with many things that are not in themselves evil.
 
the interview with then Cardinal Ratzinger is only an example of a church official trying to express that there could be dangers with yoga. It of course is not conclusive! I don’t think the poster meant for it to be conclusive.

To say that assanas (yoga poses) are not used for “salvation” is correct. Assanas are actually used to break the cycle of death and rebirth! My uncle is a yogi so I’ve had first hand knowledge, and you can do research to verify that. Yoga completely denies salvation. More specifically, salvation through Jesus Christ.
I’d be willing to make a largish bet that your Uncle the yogi would say the asanas in and of and by themselves do nothing - that one needs to combine prayer, meditation, breathing exercises and possibly other things with the poses in order for them to have any effect - to break that cycle of death and rebirth.

In other words the poses are just like those weight-loss supplements where the ad says something like ‘helps you lose weight when combined with a sensible diet and exercise’. Means the supplement is useless, as the diet and exercise by themselves are what is making you lose weight.
 
Hang on - the physical postures of yoga have zip, zilch, zero and nada to do with salvation, let alone potentially becoming alternate modes thereof! The spiritual context in which some - not all - practitioners place it may do. The two - physical exercises and spiritual context - are not and cannot be the same thing, since as many have pointed out the postures are done in many other contexts, though not by the same name.

And by saying that posture ‘renders’ belief is he saying the outward motions come first? I would call BS on that. And as exhibits A through Z for my case I would present every bored teenager or Christmas n Easter churchgoer who says the words and goes through the motions but has no belief and so in whom the words and motions produce nothing.

Fire needs both spark and fuel, and faith needs both outward sign and interior disposition. But surely the belief - or at least the seeds of it - must come first, otherwise the physical gestures produce no more faith than they would in an actor pretending to be a devout Catholic - or yogi - in a play or movie.
Code:
  You have your opinion  &  Cardinal Ratzinger, now Benedict the 16th has a different one,  as is plainly evidenced by his statements.

   From his statements his concern is the exposure to eastern ideologies that are so prevalent today.

   Just doing physical exercises is good.  The Church is not concerned with the exercises.

   Cardinal Ratzinger is a traditonalist.     

   I am ill and may have to go to into the hospital.    I am really nauseated but you all need to understand  that there is  clearly a line.  You have to discern what that line is and what is means to cross it.
 
Pope Benedict when NOT speaking with Magisterial authority, which he is not in this case, is NOT > LilyM. And a third party quoting what he is saying - which may or may not be referring to the exercises as pure exercises - is most assuredly not more authoritative than me!
LilyM,
Code:
      Why don't you find that  interview?   The name of the person who gave the interview and the date is given.

       I have the full interview translated albeit  rather poorly; but  I get the definite sense  of the message that Cardinal Ratzinger is trying to impart.  It is the exposure to the ideologies behind yoga.

       I can tell you this the Mass Media of the USA censors and edits statements made by  top Catholic religious leaders such as the Vatican curia.   

     Your correct as you are the one in authority who will answer to God; but just remember this ignorance is one of the three sins against faith.

       Obama had a great portion of the Catholic vote or rather people who call themselves Catholic  because they are only nominally Catholic.

     Oh,  I practiced yoga and karate for a long time; but  I Don't any longer.   I took instructions from a student of  Gogen Yamaguchi, a Shinto priest.   God intervened and  I am thankful.  There are things not so apparent.
 
I was informed that there is no teaching in the church against yoga.

I discovered that even if the Hindu’s claim that yoga is offered up to their gods, there really is only one God, The Holy Trinity.

I started a yoga class last night at myyogaonline.com and the teacher kept speaking of the body healing itself, and finding that inner divine. I completely ignored her teachings but I followed the movements and physical aspects of what she was teaching.

I strangely woke up in the middle of the night last night and was wide awake.

Im wondering if yoga affects the mind more than it affects the spirit, or vice versa, or neither. They speak of teaching the body how to fix itself. Somewhat like a neural reboot. I felt this might have affected my spiritual life. Or maybe I was just being paranoid.

Again, I completely ignore the philosophies of yoga. I merely focus on what they tell me to do physically. But sometimes when Im in a relaxed laying down position it seems like they start bombarding me with their philosophies. In a calm voice they say, “let that inner divine come out.” Or something along those lines.

I have experienced some troubles in the past with evil spirits so I was definitely worried when I entered into it. But I woke up this morning and felt this great soreness on my muscles that I was looking for. I have a lot of injuries from football and yoga seems like it can really help.

Any advice? (sorry for such a long post)
No, doing yoga is not demonic. Most people aren’t even aware that yoga has any spiritual element; it’s just exercise. I honestly don’t see any reason to be concerned. If what your yoga instructor tells you bothers you, then ignore her and just do the physical exercises.

Simply hearing about other people talking about their different spiritual beliefs should not be a cause for concern. I read parts of the Bhagavad Gita last month, for example. I found it an interesting read which does not, and should not, affect my own spiritual life.
 
Is this not similar to the issues Paul dealt with in Romans 14?

1 Welcome anyone who is weak in faith,a but not for disputes over opinions.
2 One person believes that one may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables.
3 The one who eats must not despise the one who abstains, and the one who abstains must not pass judgment on the one who eats; for God has welcomed him.
4 Who are you to pass judgment on someone else’s servant? Before his own master he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
5 [For] one person considers one day more important than another, while another person considers all days alike. Let everyone be fully persuaded in his own mind.
**6 Whoever observes the day, observes it for the Lord. Also whoever eats, eats for the Lord, since he gives thanks to God; while whoever abstains, abstains for the Lord and gives thanks to God. **
7 None of us lives for oneself, and no one dies for oneself.
8 For if we live, we live for the Lord, and if we die, we die for the Lord; so then, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s.
9 For this is why Christ died and came to life, that he might be Lord of both the dead and the living.
10 Why then do you judge your brother? Or you, why do you look down on your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of God;
11 for it is written:
As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bend before me,
and every tongue shall give praise to God.”

12 So [then] each of us shall give an account of himself [to God].
Consideration for the Weak Conscience.
13 Then let us no longer judge one another, but rather resolve never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother.
14 I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; still, it is unclean for someone who thinks it unclean.
15 If your brother is being hurt by what you eat, your conduct is no longer in accord with love. Do not because of your food destroy him for whom Christ died.
16 So do not let your good be reviled.
17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of food and drink, but of righteousness, peace, and joy in the holy Spirit;
18 whoever serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by others.
19 Let us then pursue what leads to peace and to building up one another.
20 For the sake of food, do not destroy the work of God.r Everything is indeed clean, but it is wrong for anyone to become a stumbling block by eating;
21 it is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that causes your brother to stumble.
22 Keep the faith [that] you have to yourself in the presence of God; blessed is the one who does not condemn himself for what he approves.
23 But whoever has doubts is condemned if he eats, because this is not from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin.
 
I am by no means an expert in this field but I will tell you what a indian yoga teacher told me.
There are many Yoga technique and one of them is the physical yoga. When practising yoga you first learn how to move your body and breath so that you later in your life can learn how to be still in certain yogic postures and stop your breathing. sounds kinda non-christian to me.
 
I found an article that was issued by the Catholic church that Yoga or Reiki isn’t suitable for someone that desire to practice the Catholic life.

Hugs and love
 
I think St Paul has it right:

I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; still, it is unclean for someone who thinks it unclean.
 
I am by no means an expert in this field but I will tell you what a indian yoga teacher told me.
There are many Yoga technique and one of them is the physical yoga. When practising yoga you first learn how to move your body and breath so that you later in your life can learn how to be still in certain yogic postures and stop your breathing. sounds kinda non-christian to me.
Learning interior stillness is very much part of Christianity.

“Be still and know that I am God.”

Stillness within, allows us to be open to God in order to hear him in silence.

This is advanced Christian prayer, so I won’t try to explain it here.

Jim
 
Pope Benedict when NOT speaking with Magisterial authority, which he is not in this case, is NOT > LilyM. And a third party quoting what he is saying - which may or may not be referring to the exercises as pure exercises - is most assuredly not more authoritative than me!
Cardinal Ratzinger, ANY person involved in holy orders and vocations > LilyM / random posters on an internet forum.

While he was then Cardinal and not speaking with Magisterial infallible authority, im still more inclined to take the opinion of anyone who devotes their entire life to God infinitely more seriously. Thats all.
 
Thank you. I thought I was now morally obligated to develop a liking for cats, Mozart and Prada shoes - and just wondering how on earth I was going to find out if His Holiness enjoys football and if so what his favourite team was so that I could become a supporter 😃
 
Thank you. I thought I was now morally obligated to develop a liking for cats, Mozart and Prada shoes - and just wondering how on earth I was going to find out if His Holiness enjoys football and if so what his favourite team was so that I could become a supporter 😃
Except those things have nothing to do with worship or spirituality 🙂
Yoga does. Sounds like simple justification to attempt to lump yoga in with football.
 
Except those things have nothing to do with worship or spirituality 🙂
Yoga does.
That’s like saying pentagrams and ninja hand signs have to do with spirituality. Suffice it say, I have demonstrated how that is not the case. In turn, your camp remains without a substantial response other than blind appeal to authority and base assertion.
 
Whatever your stance is on yoga, it cant be denied that there is in fact spirituality involved…otherwise we wouldnt even have such a thread like this in existence to begin with.

How many threads pop up asking if playing football is spiritually dangerous?
 
Whatever your stance is on yoga, it cant be denied that there is in fact spirituality involved…otherwise we wouldnt even have such a thread like this in existence to begin with.

How many threads pop up asking if playing football is spiritually dangerous?
This thread exists because some people are hyper-cautious to the point of near scrupulosity. To those people I say, do not do it. Yoga, as practiced in the West, is stretching and holding - nothing wrong there. Now what is one’s intention, motive, goal? That makes all the difference.

In the Tai Chi thread the CDF letter on New Age was mentioned. It contained some key questions to ask of anything.
  • Is God a being with whom we have a relationship or something to be used or a force to be harnessed?
  • Is there just one Jesus Christ, or are there thousands of Christs?
  • The human being: is there one universal being or are there many individuals?
  • Do we save ourselves or is salvation a free gift from God?
  • Do we invent truth or do we embrace it?
  • Prayer and meditation: are we talking to ourselves or to God?
  • Are we tempted to deny sin or do we accept that there is such a thing?
  • Are we encouraged to reject or accept suffering and death?
  • Is social commitment something shirked or positively sought after?
  • Is our future in the stars or do we help to construct it?
Is there spirituality involved in Football? Depends on who you ask.
 
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