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cheezey
Guest
That makes sense…
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Michael_Mayo
Guest
What I mean was dealt with by the CDF:
That does not mean that genuine practices of meditation which come from the Christian East and from the great non-Christian religions, which prove attractive to the man of today who is divided and disoriented, cannot constitute a suitable means of helping the person who prays to come before God with an interior peace, even in the midst of external pressures.
But we can still benefit by non-Christian practices.
ewtn.com/library/curia/cdfmed.htm
- With the present diffusion of eastern methods of meditation in the Christian world and in ecclesial communities, we find ourselves faced with a pointed renewal of an attempt, which is not free from dangers and errors, “to fuse Christian meditation with that which is non-Christian.” Proposals in this direction are numerous and radical to a greater or lesser extent. **Some use eastern methods solely as a psycho-physical preparation for a truly Christian contemplation; others go further and, using different techniques, try to generate spiritual experiences **similar to those described in the writings of certain Catholic mystics.
- Some physical exercises automatically produce a feeling of quiet and relaxation, pleasing sensations, perhaps even phenomena of light and of warmth, which resemble spiritual well-being. To take such feelings for the authentic consolations of the Holy Spirit would be a totally erroneous way of conceiving the spiritual life. Giving them a symbolic significance typical of the mystical experience, when the moral condition of the person concerned does not correspond to such an experience, would represent a kind of mental schizophrenia which could also lead to psychic disturbance and, at times, to moral deviations.
That does not mean that genuine practices of meditation which come from the Christian East and from the great non-Christian religions, which prove attractive to the man of today who is divided and disoriented, cannot constitute a suitable means of helping the person who prays to come before God with an interior peace, even in the midst of external pressures.
But we can still benefit by non-Christian practices.
ewtn.com/library/curia/cdfmed.htm
C
cheezey
Guest
Thank you for this.
J
JButky
Guest
One does not require yoga to take care of one’s body. You are making an association that is not necessary (taking care of one’s body as an act towards God) and trying to equate it specifically as necessary with something it’s not. If you want to consider yoga as exercise, then it is not a requirement for Christianity and adds nothing to one’s Christian purpose.
And Yoga is certainly not necessary for meditating on the Christian mysteries for understanding Truth. If anything, it is a crutch, perhaps innocent in its “Christian” application, but still, it is at best an unnecessary distraction. One who continues to be steeped in Catholic Spiritual exercises should seem to have less and less use for yoga. It’s just an unnecessary distraction to the practice of Catholic Spirituality. It certainly represents a misunderstanding of suffering and the mysteries taught within it.
A Catholic suffering in pain would be thrust farther into the Christian mystery guided by the likes of say Fulton Sheen, than the practice of Yoga. The two are diametrically opposed.
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Michael_Mayo
Guest
I am just wondering why yoga would be anymore a distraction than walking or any other exercise?
How is Yoga opposed to Bishop Sheen on the subject of suffering?
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godisgood77
Guest
To answer the original question … NO yoga is not demonic.
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LilyM
Guest
There are very few spiritual or physical practices that one ‘needs’. One equally does not need the Rosary, holy water, holy statues or images about the house or Church (apart feom the one crucifix required in the Sanctuary during the celebration of Mass), daily Mass or frequent confession.
Most if not all of these can in fact be hindrances or harms in one’s spiritual life. For example, they can engender a prideful view of oneself in regard those who do not practice them, or not as frequently.
One can neglect one’s necessary worldly duties in life through spending excessive time locked away in prayer.
Frequent confession can exacerbate scrupulosity. Consecrated hosts can be stolen and used in satanic rituals.
Gangs can misuse the Rosary as a gang symbol, people selling a house can indulge in the gross superstition of burying a St Joseph Statue in the yard and the like. Practitioners of voodoo and Santeria abuse Catholic imagery and so on.
What I’m saying is yoga by no means has any sort of monopoly on causing spiritual harm. Much depends on the psyche of the individual practitioner.
Same goes for other forms of physical exercise - weightlifting, bodybuilding, running, boxing or whatnot. All can lead to an obsession with ‘the body beautiful’ that is equally diametrically opposed to the Christian view of subduing the body so as to make it an instrument of God’s will.
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BluesPicker
Guest
Code:
What? You think using sacramentals is harmful?
We need to pray the Rosary now more than anytime in the history of Man
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LilyM
Guest
The Rosary is a prayer, not a sacramental. The beads are a sacramental and can indeed be misused - as my example of gangs using the wearing of Rosaries as identification shows. In the case of those gang members, and all who are turned off the Rosary by the misuse of the beads in this fashion, it is indeed harmful.
The Blessed Host itself can be misused in Satanic black Masses. To those who abuse the Blessed Sacrament in such a way, of course it is harmful.
Are you suggesting that it is a good thing to be in a gang or a Satanic Black Mass?
T
TheWarriorMonk
Guest
Your avoidance of my analogy has not unnoticed. Substitute “yoga” with “candy.” Obviously you do not eat candy, or anything that is not natural to the environment, otherwise you would not be practicing what you preached.
As far as exercise goes, I have found that simple prayer does not straighten out my back, nor make me physically stronger so that I may help myself and others. Physical action is required on my part. If prayer alone strengthens you physically, that is good for you…but it does not work for the rest of us.
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WatchfulPilgrim
Guest
I’m glad you found that - about how yoga alters the consciousness. I haven’t read the entire thread, but I have read a lot about yoga and tried it for myself. The combination of physical positions along with the breathing techniques which must be used to achieve some of the positions are such that they HELP ONE ACHIEVE A PARTICULAR STATE OF MIND. You cannot separate the physical from the spiritual unfortunately. Our mind, body and spirit are intimately connected. And yes, Satan is very much alive and at work in the world (for those of you who think he is someplace far off…) - there is a real spiritual battle going on. You do NOT want to achieve yoga’s altered state of consciousness.thank you for helping me realize this and thank you to everyone else who has posted
Im not saying yoga is evil, but I just don’t feel comfortable to test the waters. I guess Im going to have to deal with the injuries until I find a better solution.
jmanjackal.net/eng/engyoga.htm
This website helped clear some things up for me as well.
Are there any alternatives to yoga that do not alter the conscience in any way?? (I might need to start to new forum on this topic…)
I just dont understand how yoga can help my body feel that “good soreness” that I’ve been looking for for years, yet I feel so uncomfortable with the idea of where it came from. There has got to be an alternative that helps align the body, and stretch and strengthen the muscles
Pax Christi~
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TheWarriorMonk
Guest
Intent is your decision, and your decision alone. When I do exercises, I am focusing on the part of my body that the exercises is focused toward for maximum effect. Should I decide to turn it into a spiritual exercise, I’m not going to focus it toward a false god…nor should you.
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cheezey
Guest
Taking care of one’s body can keep it strong. It is a strong body works better. A strong body helps others in need better; a very Christian thing to do…
Spiritual exercises are great, so is physical activity to better the body. See above above reason…
And again:
A person in pain, say, me, has indeed been guided further into the Christian mystery.
I have also been guided in my breathing, which calms me and thus reduces some pain.
I have been guided how best to stretch the correct way, in my case, through Yoga, to strengthen my back, which helps me to help others in need, a very Christian thing to do…
So I use Yoga positions for my body’s health, not my faith.
I am glad Yoga helps my back, my neck…
C
cheezey
Guest
Would you try acupuncture?
Im not saying yoga is evil, but I just don’t feel comfortable to test the waters. I guess Im going to have to deal with the injuries until I find a better solution.
jmanjackal.net/eng/engyoga.htm
This website helped clear some things up for me as well.
Are there any alternatives to yoga that do not alter the conscience in any way?? (I might need to start to new forum on this topic…)
I just dont understand how yoga can help my body feel that “good soreness” that I’ve been looking for for years, yet I feel so uncomfortable with the idea of where it came from. There has got to be an alternative that helps align the body, and stretch and strengthen the muscles
C
cheezey
Guest
I am still not understanding how it would do this if one does not believe it could.
Nor can I understand how it would do this if one is well grounded in their Faith.
Stretching one’s back in any way, including Yoga, will not alter one’s state. Unless you want it to…
Except one way… Man alive!! My back feels GREAT!!!
M
Michael_Mayo
Guest
You mean tranquility? Inner peace?
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LilyM
Guest
Exactly … I am far too busy concentrating on whether I am positioning my body correctly (and sometimes just on not falling over or else maintaining the position for as long as required) to achieve anything approaching the simple sense of tranquility or inner peace let alone any more profound alteration in my consciousness! The fact that I neither seek nor invite any such just might have a little something to so with it.
And the inner peace and tranquility is almost certainly the endorphin fuelled ‘runners high’ effect that can come from any exercise, which is certainly not of da debbil.
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BluesPicker
Guest
The Rosary is a prayer, not a sacramental. The beads are a sacramental and can indeed be misused - as my example of gangs using the wearing of Rosaries as identification shows. In the case of those gang members, and all who are turned off the Rosary by the misuse of the beads in this fashion, it is indeed harmful.
The Blessed Host itself can be misused in Satanic black Masses. To those who abuse the Blessed Sacrament in such a way, of course it is harmful.
Are you suggesting that it is a good thing to be in a gang or a Satanic Black Mass?
Code:
The Rosary is a sacramental because prayers are sacramentals. And I don't know how you can arrive at the last statement.There are very few spiritual or physical practices that one ‘needs’. One equally does not need the Rosary, holy water, holy statues or images about the house or Church (apart feom the one crucifix required in the Sanctuary during the celebration of Mass), daily Mass or frequent confession."
Code:
That is what is disturbing. It just seems bizarre and equally bizarre is how you arrive at your last statement.
I think you need to study about prayer and sacramentals in general. It appears you deliberately avoid using them, and somehow are confused.
I don't believe you are malicious or have harmful intent; but you need to study theology.
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BluesPicker
Guest
Originally Posted by JButky View Post
One does not require yoga to take care of one’s body. You are making an association that is not necessary (taking care of one’s body as an act towards God) and trying to equate it specifically as necessary with something it’s not. If you want to consider yoga as exercise, then it is not a requirement for Christianity and adds nothing to one’s Christian purpose.
And Yoga is certainly not necessary for meditating on the Christian mysteries for understanding Truth. If anything, it is a crutch, perhaps innocent in its “Christian” application, but still, it is at best an unnecessary distraction. One who continues to be steeped in Catholic Spiritual exercises should seem to have less and less use for yoga. It’s just an unnecessary distraction to the practice of Catholic Spirituality. It certainly represents a misunderstanding of suffering and the mysteries taught within it.
A Catholic suffering in pain would be thrust farther into the Christian mystery guided by the likes of say Fulton Sheen, than the practice of Yoga. The two are diametrically opposed."
Thanks JButky,
BP
One does not require yoga to take care of one’s body. You are making an association that is not necessary (taking care of one’s body as an act towards God) and trying to equate it specifically as necessary with something it’s not. If you want to consider yoga as exercise, then it is not a requirement for Christianity and adds nothing to one’s Christian purpose.
And Yoga is certainly not necessary for meditating on the Christian mysteries for understanding Truth. If anything, it is a crutch, perhaps innocent in its “Christian” application, but still, it is at best an unnecessary distraction. One who continues to be steeped in Catholic Spiritual exercises should seem to have less and less use for yoga. It’s just an unnecessary distraction to the practice of Catholic Spirituality. It certainly represents a misunderstanding of suffering and the mysteries taught within it.
A Catholic suffering in pain would be thrust farther into the Christian mystery guided by the likes of say Fulton Sheen, than the practice of Yoga. The two are diametrically opposed."
Code:
I firmly agree with these statements and this is basically what the Vatican says.BP
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LilyM
Guest
How wrong you are. I use plenty of sacramentals, and in particular love my collection of Rosary beads which are used in praying my daily Rosary. My understanding of the definition of a sacramental was faulty. Point taken.
Praying the Rosary is great - but would you say that someone is doing a good thing who spends twelve hours a day praying the Rosary and neglects because of this to do his hor her work, to provide for and tend to the daily needs of his or her spouse or children as he or she has a duty to do?
Every sacramental - and sacrament - is open to misuse and abuse. Even the prayer of the Holy Rosary. In that abuse consists spiritual harm. You appear to think this impossible. But you are incorrect. That is the point I was making and it stands.
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