Is yoga demonic or no?

[TheWarriorMonk]

Yoga means to unite or yoke with the Absolute. Their “Absolute” is not Jesus Christ. I’m sure that the stretches feel good, but it’s kind of strange when you combine a practice that by it’s nature strives to achieve that goal and then reconcile that with Jesus’ command to, “Take My Yoke upon you and learn from me…” Just sayin’…

The other night in my martial arts class we did some stretching. Certain stretches are very similar to yoga stretches, an in many cases I did a yoga stretch instead. The reason was simply that those stretches work on various muscle groups that I like to have loose before I started working out hardcore.

Was I thinking about “uniting” or “yoking” with the Absolute? Pfffttt…Why would I do that? It seems like way to many people feel the need to pay respect to hindu “gods” just because they might do a beneficial stretch for their body.

 

[cheezey]

BluesPicker;10432353:

Where to start? Ok - first of all you do not appear to know the difference between USE of something and ABuse or MISuse of it. I suggest you acquaint yourself with the dictionary definitions of those words. I can quite consistently say that I use sacramentals often while at the same time they can be misused or abused by others.

The point is that to breathe in a certain way or put my body in certain postures is, like any spiritual practice, something that can be either used or misused/abused.

Then please kindly reread the posted excerpts of documents which state

a) the church rejects nothing which is good in other religions - including Hinduism; and

b) Eastern meditation techniques (which includes such things as Zen and the meditation techniques of yoga) may be profitably used by Christians - ie they are not in and of themselves wrong.

Now a simple logical process:

A) burning incense as an act of worship to the One True God = good
B) burning incense because it smells pretty = morally neutral
C) burning incense as an act if worship to a false god = bad

In the same way:

A) doing physical exercise and breathing (including yoga-style techniques) as a means of enhancing one’s worship of the one true God (as documents provided by previous posters have told us is permissible) = good
B) doing yoga-style exercise and breathing as a means purely of enhancing one’s physical
well being = morally neutral
C) doing the same as an act of worship to a false god = wrong.

NB: one does not worship without the comscious intent of doing so, otherwise no-one would be able to enact, for example, a scene of a child’s baptism on stage or screen without the poor infant really being baptised, at least sometimes!

Once again,

:clapping::clapping:

 

[Michael_Mayo]

Your question has been adequately answered already. If it’s stretching that will help you, why not try any of the ones that aren’t linked to eastern mysticism? In my humble opinion, I don’t think it is wise to engage in an activity that’s created to yoke or unite to to the Absolute…their Absolute. Especially when Jesus wants us to take His Yoke upon us and learn from HIM. Like I said before, I see it as playing too close to a wild dog chained to a tree. (St. Padre Pio once used this analogy to describe sin and Satan). It probably would be wise to play elsewhere. A lot of kids believe that playing Tarot cards are okay…as long as they don’t take it seriously.

That quote from AG is misinformation.

Any religion including Hindu, Buddhist, Jewish or Christian can utilize yoga stretches just as they can utilize burning incense, ringing bells, playing music and making vows of poverty, chastity obedience.

This fixation that some people have on the movements of yoga being somehow intrinsically demonic just because they originate in a pagan religion, in spite of the practitioners intentions and motivation is superstitious.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

If it’s stretching that will help you, why not try any of the ones that aren’t linked to eastern mysticism?

What stretch isn’t?

Yoga prettty much includes any stretch you can think of.

 

[Evania]

What stretch isn’t?

Yoga prettty much includes any stretch you can think of.

When I stretch I am not practicing yoga. If I happen to stretch my arm over my head, does that mean I’m doing yoga?

 

[Evania]

That quote from AG is misinformation.

Any religion including Hindu, Buddhist, Jewish or Christian can utilize yoga stretches just as they can utilize burning incense, ringing bells, playing music and making vows of poverty, chastity obedience.

This fixation that some people have on the movements of yoga being somehow intrinsically demonic just because they originate in a pagan religion, in spite of the practitioners intentions and motivation is superstitious.

Okay, then if I innocently play with an Ouiji board, does it just depend on my intentions and motivation? What if my intention was simply to have fun with friends and I honestly don’t believe it can do any harm?

 

[Evania]

The other night in my martial arts class we did some stretching. Certain stretches are very similar to yoga stretches, an in many cases I did a yoga stretch instead. The reason was simply that those stretches work on various muscle groups that I like to have loose before I started working out hardcore.

Was I thinking about “uniting” or “yoking” with the Absolute? Pfffttt…Why would I do that? It seems like way to many people feel the need to pay respect to hindu “gods” just because they might do a beneficial stretch for their body.

Let’s not get silly.

If I happen to stretch my arm over my head, and it just so happens to be similar to yoga, does that mean I’m actually practicing yoga? I’m sure some yoga postures feel great! I’m speaking solely on the origins of the practice, and I do not think it’s wise. The breathing exercises help you, in combination with the poses, to reach the “Inner Divine”. That’s great if you can dismiss the nonsense of the accompanying New Age/ eastern mysticism. However like St. Paul warns us; “We do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the powers of darkness.” Hence my analogy…

 

[Michael_Mayo]

When I stretch I am not practicing yoga. If I happen to stretch my arm over my head, does that mean I’m doing yoga?

If I happen to stretch my arm over my head, and it just so happens to be similar to yoga, does that mean I’m actually practicing yoga?

Yes, how is it not?
What is the difference if the actions are the same?
Isn’t that your argument? That intention is not important; it is the action itself that is a danger?

Okay, then if I innocently play with an Ouiji board, does it just depend on my intentions and motivation? What if my intention was simply to have fun with friends and I honestly don’t believe it can do any harm?

How do you expect it to work?

 

[BluesPicker]

My apologies. Is this brief interview what you mean:

The answers of Cardinal J. Ratzinger (the present Pope Benedict XVI)

Can “Christian yoga” exist?

“The risk is the fact that yoga will become an independent method of ‘salvation’ which lacks a true encounter of God and a human being. And in this case we already find ourselves in transcendence. The truth is that even in Christian prayer and contemplation the posture of body is important and renders the inward state, which is likewise expressed in the Liturgy. In yoga, however, the movements of body render a different inner content.”

    The last statement is a question and not a statement.  That should be abundantly  obvious as  the sane last statement of the first paragraph doesn't support Yoga.

  This particular document was translated from Italian to  English.   Many interviews printed in English  don't have the complete interview.

  When members of the 'Vatican Curia write papers where they expound on other Vatican documents these are Church documents.

   MAY YOGA BE PRACTISED BY CHRISTIANS? The answer, short and simple, is: “NO”.

IS THERE SUCH A THING AS “CHRISTIAN” YOGA? Again, the answer is an emphatic “NO”.
There are good people who try to “Christianize” everything. They say that anything that is non-Christian can be “brought under the Lordship of Jesus”. We can agree with them till that point. Everything can, and must, be brought under the Lordship of Jesus Christ. But, they then take a step further, and insist that such things can be used by Christians. This is where they go wrong. Spiritual practices which are intrinsically non-Christian cannot be used by Christians when the philosophies behind these practices are diametrically opposed to the revelation of the Bible, which is the living Word of God.
May Christians practise pranayama [yogic breathing exercises]?
What about the asanas - the postures or physical exercises of yoga? May Christians practise them?
To that question, the answer is “yes”, but with some qualifications:
Deep breathing is a good thing. The increased intake of oxygen lowers the levels of carbon-dioxide in the blood, and is good for metabolism, and therefore for health. Good posture and physical exercise facilitate improved breathing and blood circulation, and tone up the muscles. So, then, a Christian may do yoga? We did not say that. A Christian may do the breathing and the exercises, but does not need to call it “yoga”. Call it simply proper breathing, and fitness exercising.
When we say we are doing ‘yoga’, there are usually other implications. If we closely question those who are teaching us yoga, we are certain to find that, along with their faith in yoga, they have accepted other beliefs, philosophies and practices which are not compatible with the Catholic faith and Biblical revelation. While trying to improve their health of mind and body through yoga, they have usually assimilated beliefs that endanger their faith and Christian spiritual life.
The system of yoga is not simply a group of physical exercises. It is an eight-staged process that starts at the physical level [asanas], moves through the mental level [meditation techniques], and finishes at the SPIRITUAL level [self-realization]. Any treatment or practice that concerns not just the human body but also the human mind and one’s spirit or soul, is to be examined very carefully.
If yoga were NOT such a system, NOT falling in this category, why would it be mentioned in not one but TWO Vatican Documents? One Document was on meditation systems, the other on New Age spiritual dangers.

THE VATICAN ON YOGA. A POPE SPEAKS, AND TWO DOCUMENTS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
The first is the ‘Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church on Some Aspects of Christian Meditation ’, October 15, 1989, signed by the present Pope Benedict XVI.
THE VATICAN ON YOGA. A POPE SPEAKS, AND TWO DOCUMENTS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
The first is the ‘Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church on Some Aspects of Christian Meditation ’, October 15, 1989, signed by the present Pope Benedict XVI.
Fr. John Bertolucci in Is Yoga Any Good? in NEW COVENANT magazine, October 1991 says that this “letter issued two years ago by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith specifically addresses some aspects of Christian meditation.
I’ve found nothing of use- and a great deal of potential spiritual harm- in the technique of yoga. Anyone who has yielded his life to Jesus Christ and is in an intimate relationship with him through the Holy Spirit has no need for techniques rooted in non-Christian religions.”
The Document expresses grave apprehensions about “forms of meditation associated with Eastern religions and their particular methods of prayer… The expression ‘Eastern methods’ is used to refer to methods which are inspired by Hinduism or Buddhism such as Zen, Transcendental Meditation or Yoga.” [n 2]
‘Genuine Christian mysticism has nothing to do with technique. It is always a gift of God’’ [n 23].
About this Document, the Catholic news agency UCAN reported on February 12, 1990, “Father Lucio da Veiga Coutinho, deputy secretary general of the Catholic Bishops’ Conference of India, is former editor of the Indian Catholic weekly The New Leader. A member of the UCA News Board of Directors, Father Coutinho wrote the following commentary.

It appeared in the Feb. 10 issue of ASIA FOCUS: The Times of India, a prestigious daily, recently commented that ‘the Vatican has issued a lengthy encyclical virtually excommunicating yoga.’

---

 So much for the Vatican supporting Yoga.   I again post a Church document.

 When something is manure it stinks even if you make a lily statue of it.

TM

 

[Evania]

The last statement is a question and not a statement. That should be abundantly obvious as the sane last statement of the first paragraph doesn’t support Yoga.

  This particular document was translated from Italian to  English.   Many interviews printed in English  don't have the complete interview.

  When members of the 'Vatican Curia write papers where they expound on other Vatican documents these are Church documents.

   MAY YOGA BE PRACTISED BY CHRISTIANS? The answer, short and simple, is: “NO”.

IS THERE SUCH A THING AS “CHRISTIAN” YOGA? Again, the answer is an emphatic “NO”.
There are good people who try to “Christianize” everything. They say that anything that is non-Christian can be “brought under the Lordship of Jesus”. We can agree with them till that point. Everything can, and must, be brought under the Lordship of Jesus Christ. But, they then take a step further, and insist that such things can be used by Christians. This is where they go wrong. Spiritual practices which are intrinsically non-Christian cannot be used by Christians when the philosophies behind these practices are diametrically opposed to the revelation of the Bible, which is the living Word of God.
May Christians practise pranayama [yogic breathing exercises]?
What about the asanas - the postures or physical exercises of yoga? May Christians practise them?
To that question, the answer is “yes”, but with some qualifications:
Deep breathing is a good thing. The increased intake of oxygen lowers the levels of carbon-dioxide in the blood, and is good for metabolism, and therefore for health. Good posture and physical exercise facilitate improved breathing and blood circulation, and tone up the muscles. So, then, a Christian may do yoga? We did not say that. A Christian may do the breathing and the exercises, but does not need to call it “yoga”. Call it simply proper breathing, and fitness exercising.
When we say we are doing ‘yoga’, there are usually other implications. If we closely question those who are teaching us yoga, we are certain to find that, along with their faith in yoga, they have accepted other beliefs, philosophies and practices which are not compatible with the Catholic faith and Biblical revelation. While trying to improve their health of mind and body through yoga, they have usually assimilated beliefs that endanger their faith and Christian spiritual life.
The system of yoga is not simply a group of physical exercises. It is an eight-staged process that starts at the physical level [asanas], moves through the mental level [meditation techniques], and finishes at the SPIRITUAL level [self-realization]. Any treatment or practice that concerns not just the human body but also the human mind and one’s spirit or soul, is to be examined very carefully.
If yoga were NOT such a system, NOT falling in this category, why would it be mentioned in not one but TWO Vatican Documents? One Document was on meditation systems, the other on New Age spiritual dangers.

THE VATICAN ON YOGA. A POPE SPEAKS, AND TWO DOCUMENTS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
The first is the ‘Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church on Some Aspects of Christian Meditation ’, October 15, 1989, signed by the present Pope Benedict XVI.
THE VATICAN ON YOGA. A POPE SPEAKS, AND TWO DOCUMENTS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
The first is the ‘Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church on Some Aspects of Christian Meditation ’, October 15, 1989, signed by the present Pope Benedict XVI.
Fr. John Bertolucci in Is Yoga Any Good? in NEW COVENANT magazine, October 1991 says that this “letter issued two years ago by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith specifically addresses some aspects of Christian meditation.
I’ve found nothing of use- and a great deal of potential spiritual harm- in the technique of yoga. Anyone who has yielded his life to Jesus Christ and is in an intimate relationship with him through the Holy Spirit has no need for techniques rooted in non-Christian religions.”
The Document expresses grave apprehensions about “forms of meditation associated with Eastern religions and their particular methods of prayer… The expression ‘Eastern methods’ is used to refer to methods which are inspired by Hinduism or Buddhism such as Zen, Transcendental Meditation or Yoga.” [n 2]
‘Genuine Christian mysticism has nothing to do with technique. It is always a gift of God’’ [n 23].
About this Document, the Catholic news agency UCAN reported on February 12, 1990, “Father Lucio da Veiga Coutinho, deputy secretary general of the Catholic Bishops’ Conference of India, is former editor of the Indian Catholic weekly The New Leader. A member of the UCA News Board of Directors, Father Coutinho wrote the following commentary.

It appeared in the Feb. 10 issue of ASIA FOCUS: The Times of India, a prestigious daily, recently commented that ‘the Vatican has issued a lengthy encyclical virtually excommunicating yoga.’

---

 So much for the Vatican supporting Yoga.   I again post a Church document.

 When something is manure it stinks even if you make a lily statue of it.

TM

 

[Evania]

Yes, how is it not?
What is the difference if the actions are the same?
Isn’t that your argument? That intention is not important; it is the action itself that is a danger?

How do you expect it to work?

Well, you stated:

This fixation that some people have on the movements of yoga being somehow intrinsically demonic just because they originate in a pagan religion, in spite of the practitioners intentions and motivation is superstitious.

Obviously an Ouiji board would fit the qualification of originating from a pagan religion. While I clearly feel that it is indeed demonic; what if I looked at it as an innocent game? Kids buy it for slumber parties with no other motive than having fun when the lights go out, not because they necessarily believe anything would actually happen. After all, you can go to the Toy section in Target and see it placed next to all the other fun board games…What if I bought it with the intention of having innocent fun with friends? My intent and motivation wouldn’t necessarily be to do anything wrong. Would it be superstitious of you to condemn me playing it as rooted in the demonic?

 

[Evania]

What is the difference if the actions are the same? That’s already been discussed. Not to play devil’s advocate, but what’s the difference between praying to the saints for intercession and to the dead by incantations? The actions are the same, but there’s a huge difference. One is rooted in Christianity, which we profess to follow. The other is linked to a pagan religion. Just because I stretch my arm over my head doesn’t mean I’m “practicing” yoga, any more than praying for the intercession of a saint means that I am holding a seance.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

  So much for the Vatican supporting Yoga.   I again post a Church document.

That is not a Church document no matter how many times you attach it.

Continually referencing it will not make it a Church document.

It is only a particular commentary on documents published by some place called Metamorphose at website www.ephesians-511.net. That is all it is.

Learn the difference. Not everything a any priest or bishop writes, or whoever is writing for Metamorphe, is church teaching.

Note: even it states that it is The Times of India, commenting that ‘the Vatican has issued a lengthy encyclical virtually excommunicating yoga.’ That is their biased opinion. While “Associated Press, an American news agency, interpreted the document more objectively.”

The danger warned is:
“Human experience shows that the position and demeanour of the body also have their influence on the recollection and dispositions of the spirit… But to take such feelings for the authentic consolations of the Holy Spirit would be a totally erroneous way of conceiving the spiritual life.”

1. With the present diffusion of eastern methods of meditation in the Christian world and in ecclesial communities, we find ourselves faced with a pointed renewal of an attempt, which is not free from dangers and errors, “to fuse Christian meditation with that which is non-Christian.” Proposals in this direction are numerous and radical to a greater or lesser extent. Some use eastern methods solely as a psycho-physical preparation for a truly Christian contemplation; others go further and, using different techniques, try to generate spiritual experiences similar to those described in the writings of certain Catholic mystics.

It would be a mistake to try to generate an experience.

1. Some physical exercises automatically produce a feeling of quiet and relaxation, pleasing sensations, perhaps even phenomena of light and of warmth, which resemble spiritual well-being. To take such feelings for the authentic consolations of the Holy Spirit would be a totally erroneous way of conceiving the spiritual life. Giving them a symbolic significance typical of the mystical experience, when the moral condition of the person concerned does not correspond to such an experience, would represent a kind of mental schizophrenia which could also lead to psychic disturbance and, at times, to moral deviations.

And to think an experiences generated was the Holy Spirit. These are the dangers.

That does not mean that genuine practices of meditation which come from the Christian East and from the great non-Christian religions, which prove attractive to the man of today who is divided and disoriented, cannot constitute a suitable means of helping the person who prays to come before God with an interior peace, even in the midst of external pressures.

But we can still benefit by non-Christian practices.

References have been made to the document Jesus Christ The Bearer of the Water of Life. It asks a few discerning questions regarding how we view things so that we can make intelligent informed decisions about what we do and why we are doing it.

The following questions may be the easiest key to evaluating some of the central elements of New Age thought and practice from a Christian standpoint. “New Age” refers to the ideas which circulate about God, the human being and the world, the people with whom Christians may have conversations on religious matters, the publicity material for meditation groups, therapies and the like, explicit statements on religion and so on. Some of these questions applied to people and ideas not explicitly labelled New Age would reveal further unnamed or unacknowledged links with the whole New Age atmosphere.

• Is God a being with whom we have a relationship or something to be used or a force to be harnessed?
• Is there just one Jesus Christ, or are there thousands of Christs?
• The human being: is there one universal being or are there many individuals?
• Do we save ourselves or is salvation a free gift from God?
• Do we invent truth or do we embrace it?
• Prayer and meditation: are we talking to ourselves or to God?
• Are we tempted to deny sin or do we accept that there is such a thing?
• Are we encouraged to reject or accept suffering and death?
• Is social commitment something shirked or positively sought after?
• Is our future in the stars or do we help to construct it?

NEW AGE AND CHRISTIAN FAITH IN CONTRAST

ewtn.com/library/curia/cdfmed.htm

Please quote directly from the actual Church documents the specifc condemnation of yoga.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

Well, you stated:

This fixation that some people have on the movements of yoga being somehow intrinsically demonic just because they originate in a pagan religion, in spite of the practitioners intentions and motivation is superstitious.

Obviously an Ouiji board would fit the qualification of originating from a pagan religion. While I clearly feel that it is indeed demonic; what if I looked at it as an innocent game? Kids buy it for slumber parties with no other motive than having fun when the lights go out, not because they necessarily believe anything would actually happen. After all, you can go to the Toy section in Target and see it placed next to all the other fun board games…What if I bought it with the intention of having innocent fun with friends? My intent and motivation wouldn’t necessarily be to do anything wrong. Would it be superstitious of you to condemn me playing it as rooted in the demonic?

I am sure you realize there is a big difference between touching your toes and attempting divination. That is the purpose of the Ouji board regardless of its origin. You are trying to have innocent fun by divining answers to questions. Your intent is to have the thing move to spell out a response. Your motivation is divination and from whence you know not where. Hardly the same thing as standing on one leg to improve your balance and stretch.

If you are not comfortable with Yoga, do not do it.
But do not condemn others or think them lesser Catholic or Christian than thou because they benefit from it. After all, even you stretch your arm over your head, Evania, just like in yoga. And will you never again sit on the floor with your legs crossed?

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

When I stretch I am not practicing yoga. If I happen to stretch my arm over my head, does that mean I’m doing yoga?

If you subscribe to the notion that the exercise cannot be separated from yoga spiritual practice, then the answer to your question is an unequivocal “yes.” The same with putting your hands together as you do in Church, since that is also a yoga position.

Once you start arguing to the contrary, your argument against yoga and stretching goes right out the window.

 

[Evania]

I am sure you realize there is a big difference between touching your toes and attempting divination. That is the purpose of the Ouji board regardless of its origin. You are trying to have innocent fun by divining answers to questions. Your intent is to have the thing move to spell out a response. Your motivation is divination and from whence you know not where. Hardly the same thing as standing on one leg to improve your balance and stretch.

If you are not comfortable with Yoga, do not do it.
But do not condemn others or think them lesser Catholic or Christian than thou because they benefit from it. After all, even you stretch your arm over your head, Evania, just like in yoga. And will you never again sit on the floor with your legs crossed?

I didn’t know that it was automatically called yoga if I sat with my legs crossed.
That’s an interesting concept.

I’m confused as to why you think that if I simply don’t agree with your views, how that is somehow considered as I am holding myself on a pedestal. I’m defending my viewpoint, and point of understanding. Are you not doing the same?

I was under the impression that I was posting in a forum that was asking for advice on yoga. Here is what the OP said:

Im wondering if yoga affects the mind more than it affects the spirit, or vice versa, or neither. They speak of teaching the body how to fix itself. Somewhat like a neural reboot. I felt this might have affected my spiritual life. Or maybe I was just being paranoid.

Again, I completely ignore the philosophies of yoga. I merely focus on what they tell me to do physically. But sometimes when Im in a relaxed laying down position it seems like they start bombarding me with their philosophies. In a calm voice they say, “let that inner divine come out.” Or something along those lines.

That is disturbing…and not as benign as simple stretching. I didn’t condemn the people that practice yoga. I condemned yoga and it’s origins.
As for my example of the Ouiji board…you keep saying that the PURPOSE of it is to practice divination. Yes, I agree with you. In an earlier post you made a blanket statement saying that it was superstitious to say something is demonic when it has no bearing on the motives or intentions of the person practicing. Clearly, you were making an attempt to discredit those who disagree with yoga, and that’s fine. However, you can include many things under that same statement. True, the purpose and origin of the Ouiji board is pagan. However, regardless of that, some people’s (intentions and motivations) use it in another manner. For instance, they may see it as innocent fun and games. Little kids attend a slumber party, tell ghost stories, and enhance that with an Ouiji board. The purpose is not necessarily divination though. They might just be planning on freaking out their friends, etc. They may not believe in ghosts, and thus plan on moving the piece by themselves. To them that’s the fun of it…The point is the exact same just by a different means. In yoga, the origin is pagan. It was developed to Yoke (yoga) you with their gods. To do so, you do comfy little stretches (may be harmless in and of themselves), but mimic the positions of their gods while they teach you to focus your breathing and your mind. As you get more relaxed, they say calming affirming New Age/eastern spiritualism mantras. I think I have every right to condemn a practice that does that. The devil is cunning…That’s why the Church teaches the dangers of the “near occasion of sin”. Like I said in my first post, if a wild dog is chained to a tree, why would you want to play next to him? Playing that close isn’t the sin…but why not play elsewhere?

 

[Michael_Mayo]

I didn’t know that it was automatically called yoga if I sat with my legs crossed. That’s an interesting concept.

I thought that was your point. That yoga postures are doing yoga regardless of your intention.

I’m confused as to why you think that if I simply don’t agree with your views, how that is somehow considered as I am holding myself on a pedestal. I’m defending my viewpoint, and point of understanding. Are you not doing the same?

I am truly sorry. It was AG who said:

A real Christian will reject paganism, and all the heresies accosiated with them.

Implying that doing yoga stretches is involvement in heresy

I didn’t condemn the people that practice yoga. I condemned yoga and it’s origins.

ok

…The point is the exact same just a different means. In yoga, the origin is pagan. It was developed to Yoke (yoga) you with their gods.

No it was not.

It was developed to stabilize the mind as in the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali, Classic Yoga:

Yoga is the control of the modifications of the mind.

Then the Seer abides in Itself, resting in its own True Nature, which is called Self-realization.

The posture (asana) for Yoga meditation should be steady, stable, and motionless, as well as comfortable, and this is the third of the eight rungs of Yoga.

What the Vatican warns about is mistaking that inner peace for something Holy when it is actually only something physiological, healthy but not necessarily the Holy Spirit. There is nothing wrong with stretching and breathing that heps to us center and relax. It is what we can do to help us become more completely aware of what God wants to do with us.

But the reason most of us do yoga is to stretch out the stress and relax, gain flexibility, strength and balance

And of course let us realize that real Indain yogis most likely laugh at what they see here in they West passing as yoga. For them it is a comprehensive lifestyle. For us it is a tool.

To do so, you do comfy little stretches (may be harmless in and of themselves), but mimic the positions of their gods while they teach you to focus your breathing and your mind.

That is a fallacy. What gods? I am curious,where did you hear that beside Blues Picker? It is not true. Some of the positions have names like Mountain, Tree, fish, triangle or whatever. That does not mean there is worship. It is just a convenient way to remember them

Like I said in my first post, if a wild dog is chained to a tree, why would you want to play next to him? Playing that close isn’t the sin…but why not play elsewhere?

Because this dog is not wild.

 

[Evania]

Ok, you posted that the Seer resides in himself, resting in it’s own True Nature. (Your caps, not mine), which is called Self-realization. According to their philosophy what would that be? Multiple people say that they feel ultra-relaxed, and then the gurus start spouting the eastern philosophy. A friend of mine has been practicing yoga for years, and says there’s more to yoga than stretching. You are seeking self-growth and enlightenment. Ok, maybe you aren’t SEEKING it, but it’s part and parcel of the practice in and of itself.

The word yoga means “union,” and the goal is to unite one’s transitory (temporary) self with the infinite Brahman, the Hindu concept of “God.” This god is not a literal being, but is an impersonal spiritual substance that is one with nature and the cosmos. This view is called “pantheism,” the belief that everything is God and that reality consists only of the universe and nature. Because everything is God, the yoga philosophy makes no distinction between man and God. That would explain positions in yoga such as “Mountain”, “Tree” or “Fish”.

Hatha yoga is the aspect of yoga which focuses on the physical body through special postures, breathing exercises, and concentration or meditation. It is a means to prepare the body for the spiritual exercises, with fewer obstacles, in order to achieve enlightenment. The practice of yoga is based on the belief that man and God are one. It is little more than self-worship disguised as high-level spirituality. Cue the talk on “Reaching your Inner Divine”.

The dog’s not dangerous? Seems to me if everything is “god”, then so is the dog. And yes, that would be dangerous. The philosophy behind yoga suspiciously sounds like a certain false promise made by the serpent in the Garden,“Ye shall be like gods…”.

 

[LilyM]

Ok, you posted that the Seer resides in himself, resting in it’s own True Nature. (Your caps, not mine), which is called Self-realization. According to their philosophy what would that be? Multiple people say that they feel ultra-relaxed, and then the gurus start spouting the eastern philosophy. A friend of mine has been practicing yoga for years, and says there’s more to yoga than stretching. You are seeking self-growth and enlightenment. Ok, maybe you aren’t SEEKING it, but it’s part and parcel of the practice in and of itself.

The word yoga means “union,” and the goal is to unite one’s transitory (temporary) self with the infinite Brahman, the Hindu concept of “God.” This god is not a literal being, but is an impersonal spiritual substance that is one with nature and the cosmos. This view is called “pantheism,” the belief that everything is God and that reality consists only of the universe and nature. Because everything is God, the yoga philosophy makes no distinction between man and God. That would explain positions in yoga such as “Mountain”, “Tree” or “Fish”.

Hatha yoga is the aspect of yoga which focuses on the physical body through special postures, breathing exercises, and concentration or meditation. It is a means to prepare the body for the spiritual exercises, with fewer obstacles, in order to achieve enlightenment. The practice of yoga is based on the belief that man and God are one. It is little more than self-worship disguised as high-level spirituality. Cue the talk on “Reaching your Inner Divine”.

The dog’s not dangerous? Seems to me if everything is “god”, then so is the dog. And yes, that would be dangerous. The philosophy behind yoga suspiciously sounds like a certain false promise made by the serpent in the Garden,“Ye shall be like gods…”.

Yoga is designed to prepare for spiritual exercises?

Basketball was originally designed purely to keep track and other athletes active when bad weather temporarily prevented their regular outdoor training. They liked it, refinements and tweaks were made and it developed into a formally recognised and organised sport in and of itself.

Origin and original purpose are not the be-all and end-all. The Pope’s title ‘pontifex Maximus’ (supreme/sovereign Pontiff in English) was originally designed as a title for the chief priest of the pagan Roman gods. Literally means ‘chief bridge-builder’, as in the Pontiff was the link or bridge between the Roman people and their gods - Jupiter, Mars, Venus and so on.

Did that designation and pagan origin and association prevent the title being successfully co-opted by our Popes? Who in a sense are bridge builders between Catholics and our God? Not at all.

 

[Evania]

Yoga is designed to prepare for spiritual exercises?

Basketball was originally designed purely to keep track and other athletes active when bad weather temporarily prevented their regular outdoor training. They liked it, refinements and tweaks were made and it developed into a formally recognised and organised sport in and of itself.

Origin and original purpose are not the be-all and end-all. The Pope’s title ‘pontifex Maximus’ (supreme/sovereign Pontiff in English) was originally designed as a title for the chief priest of the pagan Roman gods. Literally means ‘chief bridge-builder’, as in the Pontiff was the link or bridge between the Roman people and their gods - Jupiter, Mars, Venus and so on.

Did that designation and pagan origin and association prevent the title being successfully co-opted by our Popes? Who in a sense are bridge builders between Catholics and our God? Not at all.

Was basketball rooted in eastern mysticism? I don’t quite get your connection between that and yoga which has a Hindu philosophy of pantheism (belief that everything is God). I absolutely agree that it isn’t the end all, your example with the Pope is correct. However, the OP has had a similar experience that many well-meaning Christians who practice yoga experience. Yoga is designed to prepare you for spiritual exercises. The very word Yoga means Union. It prepares you for that by physical stretches to mimic their gods, whether it’s a tree, bird, mountain, whatever. The point is that you are to feel one with nature as you focus on breathing and meditation. If you are practicing it correctly, then usually there are the New-Age messages such as seeking your Inner Divine…such as what was reported by the OP.

Although I do see your point with the Pope, the difference is this: In one case a pagan custom was used to glorify God. How is this possible if you correctly follow Yoga? If you are not practicing Yoga as it was designed, then maybe you aren’t practicing Yoga at all and are simply stretching…