Is your faith tradition Pro Life?

[Kliska]

Maybe the same way that they don’t take it literally that Jesus was a door or that all of Creation was done in 6- 24 hr days with the evening and the morning as 1 day? Many Christians are not literalists. Fetuses do move though. I think it is called “quickening”. But not right at the beginning of the pregnancy.

I guess that’s my point; babies do indeed move in their mother’s womb and we see clearly with modern technology that they do a lot more than ever previously thought. We have a specific non parable report of John leaping in Elizabeth’s womb at the presence of Mary with Jesus in her womb… that, along with all the other womb references in scripture I just don’t see how those Christians get there even if they are not “literalists.” Their main contention is that Adam wasn’t a living man until God breathed into him and they don’t see a difference between Adam and his descendants.

 

[rcwitness]

Unaffiliated Christian here technically I suppose “non-denom,” but all the churches I’ve attended have been pro-life as far as I know.

I think I know what you are suggesting here. But can I ask specifically? Do you regularly Commune in various denominations? Are you not a member of one?

 

[Kliska]

I think I know what you are suggesting here. But can I ask specifically? Do you regularly Commune in various denominations? Are you not a member of one?

I’ve never been a formal member of any congregation. I tend to fellowship at different churches that are different denominations. It’s not that I’m church shopping, but rather I know people/pastors/worship leaders in different churches so I make the rounds. I’ve been to Methodist, Christian Church (denomination), Church of God, Community churches, charismatic, baptist, unnamed “two-by-two,” etc…

 

[Wesrock]

Except its catechism does still allow capital punishment in rare if not nonexistent cases. There are conservative Catholics though who seem to support the state taking life in more than just rare cases. Or who don’t look at the lives of, say immigrants, in the same way the Pope or bishops might. Or how climate change could affect life or they want to outlaw a woman deciding about the value of her own health or life or her family’s lives or how carrying a pregnancy in cases of rape or incest could affect her life or the lives of her family.

I’m in favor of regulating to minimize global warming, mostly open refugee policies, and against capital punishment in our modern day society, but still… there’s a whole tier of difference between parents murdering their own innocent child and governing officials administering justice to a guilty criminal or looking for the best way to regulate the economy.

But that’s all I’ll say, as it’s a tangent.

 

[steido01]

Real Lutherans are unequivocally Pro-Life.

My LCMS typically shows up in lime-green hats at the yearly March for Life.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

I’ve never been a formal member of any congregation. I tend to fellowship at different churches that are different denominations. It’s not that I’m church shopping, but rather I know people/pastors/worship leaders in different churches so I make the rounds. I’ve been to Methodist, Christian Church (denomination), Church of God, Community churches, charismatic, baptist, unnamed “two-by-two,” etc…

Do you ever envision yourself sort of settling down and becoming a member somewhere?

I was similar as protestant. All though I was a member of the Anglican Church. I enjoyed certain aspects of a few different denominations.

 

[Kliska]

Do you ever envision yourself sort of settling down and becoming a member somewhere?

I was similar as protestant. All though I was a member of the Anglican Church. I enjoyed certain aspects of a few different denominations.

Well, I think I could as long as I saw the purpose of it. As long as I’m still on the side of the fence that believes all Christians, regardless of denomination, are a true part of the Church, I’ve never seen the point of “joining” at a membership level. It’s not ever really prevented me from being an active part of a congregation without the membership.

 

[rcwitness]

Well, I think I could as long as I saw the purpose of it. As long as I’m still on the side of the fence that believes all Christians, regardless of denomination, are a true part of the Church, I’ve never seen the point of “joining” at a membership level. It’s not ever really prevented me from being an active part of a congregation without the membership.

Well, that’s good that the Catholic faith is still an option for you to become a full Communicant. We also see many Christians, outside the visible Church membership, as in the invisible Church.

 

[TCEL]

Real Lutherans are unequivocally Pro-Life.

My LCMS typically shows up in lime-green hats at the yearly March for Life.

Do you know if Luther spoke directly on the subject of abortion? I know he did on contraception, but what about abortion? If he did, how do some pro-choice Lutherans today view that? I’ve often wondered how modern-day Protestants resolve differences with their reformed founder when there are differences of opinion over things like this, but I’ve never had a chance to ask. Thanks!

 

[benjohnson]

Do you know if Luther spoke directly on the subject of abortion? I know he did on contraception, but what about abortion? If he did, how do some pro-choice Lutherans today view that? I’ve often wondered how modern-day Protestants resolve differences with their reformed founder when there are differences of opinion over things like this, but I’ve never had a chance to ask. Thanks!

Honestly, a good Lutheran should follow Christ’s teachings and not Mr. Luther’s.

However, good news! Luther spoke God’s word good and well against abortion:

And it seems that God wanted to teach and attest that the begetting of children is wonderfully pleasing to Him, . . . He is not hostile to children, as we are. Many of us do not seek to have offspring. But God emphasizes His Word to such an extent that He sometimes gives offspring even to those who do not desire it, yes, even hate it. . . . He seems to emphasize procreation to such an extent that children are born even to adulterers and fornicators contrary to their wish. How great, therefore, the wickedness of human nature is! How many girls there are who prevent conception and kill and expel tender fetuses, although procreation is the work of God! Indeed, some spouses who marry and live together in a respectable manner have various ends in mind, but rarely children. The first class of spouses consists of those who seek to have offspring and have a desire for this kind of life in order that they may become parents. Although original sin is there too, nevertheless procreation is the main cause. These people are really angels in comparison with the others, because they desire to make use of marriage for procreation. But their number is very small, . . . The third class consists of those who desire wives solely for the sake of pleasure. These are not concerned about children but want to lead a soft and pleasant life and to have a pretty girl to give them pleasure.
(Lectures on Genesis, Chapters 21-25, May 1540, ed. Jaroslav Pelikan, tr. George V. Schick; in Luther’s Works, v. 2, pp. 304-305)

 

[TCEL]

Honestly, a good Lutheran should follow Christ’s teachings and not Mr. Luther’s.

However, good news! Luther spoke God’s word good and well against abortion:

And it seems that God wanted to teach and attest that the begetting of children is wonderfully pleasing to Him, . . . He is not hostile to children, as we are. Many of us do not seek to have offspring. But God emphasizes His Word to such an extent that He sometimes gives offspring even to those who do not desire it, yes, even hate it. . . . He seems to emphasize procreation to such an extent that children are born even to adulterers and fornicators contrary to their wish. How great, therefore, the wickedness of human nature is! How many girls there are who prevent conception and kill and expel tender fetuses, although procreation is the work of God! Indeed, some spouses who marry and live together in a respectable manner have various ends in mind, but rarely children. The first class of spouses consists of those who seek to have offspring and have a desire for this kind of life in order that they may become parents. Although original sin is there too, nevertheless procreation is the main cause. These people are really angels in comparison with the others, because they desire to make use of marriage for procreation. But their number is very small, . . . The third class consists of those who desire wives solely for the sake of pleasure. These are not concerned about children but want to lead a soft and pleasant life and to have a pretty girl to give them pleasure.
(Lectures on Genesis, Chapters 21-25, May 1540, ed. Jaroslav Pelikan, tr. George V. Schick; in Luther’s Works, v. 2, pp. 304-305)

Thanks for digging. So, a modern pro-choice Lutheran would just regard Luther’s comments on the subject as being a product of his time? I’m curious for personal reasons.

 

[benjohnson]

Thanks for digging. So, a modern pro-choice Lutheran would just regard Luther’s comments on the subject as being a product of his time? I’m curious for personal reasons.

I must credit David Armstrong for making the quote from Luther so readily available.

To be fair, most of the pro-choice Lutherans that I know don’t like abortion - they think it should be very rare. However, most (in my opinion) are unaware of how common abortion is, and when confronted with the number of deaths, are legitimately dismayed.

 

[Culurecatholic]

I’m Atheist and I’m pro-life. As an Atheist who supports concrete materialistic fact, I know that the life of a human being begins at fertilization. As an Atheist who uses reason and rational thought, every human being must be respected by law. As the Pro-Life Alliance of Gays and Lesbians (PLAGAL) states succinctly: Human rights begin when human life begins. As an Atheist who supports a secular America, I don’t care what any religion has to say about the issue. That includes pro-abortion religious people like the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Rights (RCRC - formerly the Religious Coalition for Abortion Rights [RCAR]). America is secular. It recognizes no god or religion. That should go with abortion, whatever side.

 

[benjohnson]

I’m Atheist and I’m pro-life. As an Atheist who supports concrete materialistic fact, I know that the life of a human being begins at fertilization. .

It’s good to see logic and reason.

 

[Culurecatholic]

It’s good to see logic and reason.

Thanks. I just wish more pro-lifers would. Saying abortion is wrong because a god says so won’t win anyone over. There are pro-abortionists (like, as I said, the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Rights) who think their god says abortion is okee-dokey. This is America. It is secular. There is no room for gods or religions to decide what’s a human right under our Constitutional Republic. So some pro-abortionist says his/her god supports abortion and it should be legal. So what? Go cram your god and your religion. Cram them all. This is America. Our Constitution recognizes no gods or religions. They only two references to religion in our Constitution are exclusionary, meaning no gods or religions are allowed in the law of the land. RCRC (formally RCAR), take notice. No one accepts your gods or religion to determine the human rights of others. Your gods and religions say it’s OK. Who cares? Appease your spooks with magic who support abortion all you want. You have no say in the Constitutional rights of others.