Is Your Liturgy Like What Vatican II Intended?

[OraLabora]

Because of the Latin modifier, It has been suggested this is a better translation:

wdtprs.com/blog/2006/04/girm-299-has-been-mistranslated/

The French translation seems to concur with what you say:

1. Il convient, partout où c’est possible, que l’autel soit érigé à une distance du mur qui permette d´en faire aisément le tour et d´y célébrer face au peuple. On lui donnera l´emplacement qui en fera le centre où converge spontanément l´attention de toute l´assemblée des fidèles[116]. Normalement, il sera fixe et dédicacé.

“It is desirable, wherever possible, to build the altar at a distance from the wall so as to walk around it easily and celebrate facing the people”

Which sounds rather neutral on whether versus populum or ad orientem is preferable. Be that as it may though, both options are clearly licit. Implicitly, the GIRM is suggesting that a separate altar be erected when the older altar attached to the wall makes “participation of the people” difficult:

In already existing churches, however, when the old altar is positioned so that it makes the people’s participation difficult but cannot be moved without damage to its artistic value, another fixed altar, of artistic merit and duly dedicated, should be erected and sacred rites celebrated on it alone. In order not to distract the attention of the faithful from the new altar, the old altar should not be decorated in any special way.

So clearly the GIRM wants most churches to at least have the possibility of celebration versus populum.

 

[ProVobis]

Which sounds rather neutral on whether versus populum or ad orientem is preferable. Be that as it may though, both options are clearly licit. Implicitly, the GIRM is suggesting that a separate altar be erected when the older altar attached to the wall makes “participation of the people” difficult:

So clearly the GIRM wants most churches to at least have the possibility of celebration versus populum.

About that, why do use the expression *ad orientem *but versus (not ad) populum? The IGMR actually uses *versus populum *at a couple of spots but a Latinist might suggest that versus is a participle of verto.

*verto, vertere, verti, versus *V turn, turn around; change, alter; ((conversus is actually used in the EF and translated “having turned” not “facing”)

So having turned around to the people, the priest…

That said, if the bishops have decided that facing the people is preferred, so be it.

 

[Thomas_Casey]

MODERATOR NOTICE

Please read our sticky on gossip.

Do not use our forums to gossip about a diocese, parish, religious order, bishop or other identifiable person. If you have a problem or concern, take the time to write the chancellor of the diocese.

True honesty is not afraid of speaking directly to the individuals involved rather than posting on the Internet behind their backs.

If this happens again, the thread will be closed and many people will be banned. Such disloyal and disrespectful behavior is also against Catholic tradition and morals. This is not up for discussion.

If you have a question or concern, PM me and I will be happy to explain why this is wrong.

 

[zab]

There will always be nit pickers, but I believe that our parish is one of the best there is when it comes to implementing changes directed by our bishops to correct liturgical abuses, beautiful liturgies including the use of Latin hymns and chant, incense etc, wonderful homilies, the availability of the sacraments, parish missions (two each year), devotions to the Eucharist and to our Blessed Mother, pastor support and involvement with our Catholic school, teaching the Faith to our children, young adults and adults, support of social programs to aid the low income, homeless, and others in need of hospitality,

 

[Brendan_64]

Now that sounds like a good parish.

 

[Veritas1994]

Around were I live which is in Southern California the most reverent parishes that I have ever seen happen to be run by the Norbertine priests.

My favorite parish is Saint John the Baptist which is itself a Norbertine parish. It offers both the Novus Ordo and the Tridentine Latin Mass. Even when the Novus Ordo is celebrated it involves Gregorian Chant, it has kneelers for Holy Communion (on Sundays) and a lot more to offer including Latin prayers)

My second favorite parish which is not a Norbertine parish (rather it is a Oblates of the Virgin Mary parish) is Saint Peter Chanel. Although they don’t offer the EF form of the Mass their Novus Ordo is still pretty good and one of the best which you can find.

 

[KathleenGee]

Our archdiocesan head liturgist told us at class that we do not have hardly good Vatican II CATHOLIC music and this is from a woman religious, I mean, a sister.

Our songs in Catholic parishes have many written by Protestants who do not believe in the Eucharist and Holy Communion that is to be received in the spirit of unity with the pope and bishops.

So we need to pray for good music composers to come to bring great beauty and depth to the liturgy as well as witness parishes bring in good traditional music.

 

[OraLabora]

So we need to pray for good music composers to come to bring great beauty and depth to the liturgy as well as witness parishes bring in good traditional music.

Well for Latin we already have that in the form of Gregorian chant.

For the vernacular, at least in English, there’s the “Simple English Propers” project. It’s pretty hard to beat scripture and psalm verses as your lyrics, and plainchant melodies as the music they’re set to.

I know of a Cistercian monastery that has done something similar with French but I’m not aware of otherwise good French melodies for the Propers (I live in a largely French-speaking part of Canada and rarely attend Mass in English).

We have the same problem in French with hokey hymns though I don’t think they’re from Protestant composers, just people who seem like they must moonlight composing laundry soap jingles for commercials

 

[Brendan_64]

I don’t think they’re from Protestant composers, just people who seem like they must moonlight composing laundry soap jingles for commercials

Some Protestant hymns are pretty decent, and better than some of the stuff that makes its way into our hymnal. I’d take ‘Rock of Ages’ over many hymns we sing at Mass.

 

[zab]

Some Protestant hymns are pretty decent, and better than some of the stuff that makes its way into our hymnal. I’d take ‘Rock of Ages’ over many hymns we sing at Mass.

I am partial to the old Catholic hymns rather than the contemporary songs of past decades. But there are a few hymns that have come from Protestant origins that I like and one of the most beautiful that we have been singing in our parish that past couple of years is “O God Beyond All Praising” After researching I learned that the lyrics are by Michael Perry 1942-1996 who was “a Church of England clergyman and one of the leading British hymnwriters of the 20th century.”
youtube.com/watch?v=eeESK_27kNE