Is Your Neighborhood/Area "Catholic"

[Mattapoisett64]

But you DID say that ‘good Catholics’ don’t choose to live in towns without churches

You’re using some terms in which you seem to place a good deal of importance, so I would say it’s up to you to define them. What is “near?” Walking distance? What is the meaning of “near” when the average work commute might be 30 minutes? Less time than getting to work? Some arbitrary number of miles? To my knowledge, the Church requires attendance at weekend Mass; it doesn’t require - as you state - that one live “near” a church. In my experience in Massachusetts, once home to scads of ethnic parishes, mostly now closed, the most faithful and engaged parishioners are often those having to make the sacrifice of travel to actually get to Mass, whereas people one block over are often - to put it charitably - irregular in their attendance.

What’s an “area without a Catholic Church?” A town? 10 square miles? A ZIP code? Lots of small towns around here without a Catholic church. That’s why people have cars. Lots of small towns without schools, too - that’s why some systems are regionalized. Quite common for rural Catholic parishes to serve multiple small communities.

Your alleged residential obligations seem rooted in perhaps cars-are-rare 1930’s America and not today’s communities.

 

[De_Maria]

FWIW, I stated my personal experiance of not being taught about the rosary, church tradition, saints, transubstantiation, etc because of poor catechetics.

I still don’t believe you. How does a 3rd generation Catholic go from birth to Confirmation without learning any of these things? Are you sure your parents and grandparents were Catholic?

 

[LittleWay16]

It is not foolish to make it a top priority, but as I stated in my post, that cannot be a top priority for everyone. There are many Catholics who drive to a church 20 miles away because some circumstance prevents them from living closer. It is not wrong for someone to live twenty minutes or even longer from a church. As long as they get to mass and live their lives in a way that follows Jesus and the teachings of the Church, they are just as good Catholics as the people who made it a priority to buy a house near a church. Neither is more faithful than the other, and if the people who made it a priority to live in a Catholic neighborhood think that makes them better Catholics, then I think they need to start studying the catechism more carefully because they are obviously not understanding it.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

FWIW, I stated my personal experiance of not being taught about the rosary, church tradition, saints, transubstantiation, etc because of poor catechetics.

Yes. Both my grandparents and parents are faithful Catholics. All attend Mass weekly. We’re far more than 3rd generation, even on the Native side. My parents learned a ton when I joined Lifeteen, and my Dad even became a CORE member for a time because he wanted to learn more. I was in college at this time, so I know his discoveries were great. He was excited!

It’s simply been 3 generations raised on the Jesus feels.

He’d never seen Adoration and Benediction in his entire life, either, and he was quite enamored. My mother had, but she didn’t understand it. They now go to adoration regularly.

When I was in college my mom took on the DRE program for our “parish” which consisted of 8 towns and 2 churches. She brought in a wonderful curriculum that taught the things that she realized she’d missed hearing about. Again, not because she’d been daydreaming, but because she was never told. But, I mean, that just doesn’t happen, right? When she asked her mother, her mother cried tears of relief. She’d been told (incorrectly) Catholics don’t do this or that or the other thing anymore and she bought it hook, line and sinker. Granted, when my grandmother was told they didn’t have the internet back then to verify things. (citra late 60’s)

I wasn’t the first one in the family to try to correct the ways of teaching the feel-good method of salvation.

 

[De_Maria]

Your alleged residential obligations

Residential obligations? You’re definitely taking this too seriously. I’m just asking what your criteria was for selecting the house that you would live in.

Was a Catholic Church in what you consider your proximity, important to you? Or did you move into a house and then decide to see if by chance a Catholic Church was in the area?

seem rooted in perhaps cars-are-rare 1930’s America and not today’s communities.

They’re rooted in faith. Why would a Catholic move into an area without a Catholic Church? The only reason I can imagine is because something else was more important to him than his purported faith.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Dang! You’re on fire on here!

 

[10gr8kids]

I would love to live close to a Catholic Church, and if you are able to make it a priority to live close to one I think it is very commendable.
However, most rural areas in my state have no Catholic Churches. We drive 30 plus minutes to get to church. We raise cattle for a living and there is no way we could afford to buy enough land to raise cattle on anywhere near a Catholic Church in our area. I suppose we could move completely away, another state, and find an area with a rural Catholic community. That would mean leaving aging parents that are starting to need assistance and who within a few years will be needing rides to Mass.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

Dang! You’re on fire on here!

Gets me a tad bit riled to be told that I’m not a ‘good’ Catholic. But I think its been made very clear where that comes into play.

 

[Usige]

I still don’t believe you. How does a 3rd generation Catholic go from birth to Confirmation without learning any of these things? Are you sure your parents and grandparents were Catholic?

To be fair, I was raised in a 10th+ generation Presbyterian family and never learned 1/10 of what John Calvin or John Knox taught. I also know several parishioners that have attended daily mass for years that probably could not pass a 2nd grade catechism test.

Roughly 1/3 of my diaconate formation class are converts and we tend to know the ins and outs of the faith in much greater depth than the cradle Catholics. Specifically because of the reason you stated earlier. We picked up books and read. Why didn’t I know that much about the Presbyterian faith I was raised in? Because I took it for granted that anything we learned in Sunday school or heard in services were the extent of the faith. The same thing happens to many Catholics.

As for living near the Church being a guarantee of being around Catholics? Not in my area. The parish church was built on the outskirts of town when it was nothing but ranch land. The infill around it includes an Anglican, Presbyterian, Baptist, Lutheran and 2 non-denominational churches. Outside of the priests that live in the rectory I don’t know more than 1 or 2 people that actually go to Mass and live within a mile of the parish grounds. Given that there are more non-catholic Churches in the area then by your proximity logic then I should expect significantly more non-catholics near the Church than Catholics.

In reality there are likely more non-religious near the parish than anything else. Why? because the infill land was fairly high priced when the parish actually started to grow. Those parcels tended to draw dual income professional couples that have higher percentages of no religious adherence.

So does it count that I can see my house 6 miles away when I’m vesting in the morning?

 

[De_Maria]

Yes. Both my grandparents and parents are faithful Catholics. All attend Mass weekly.

But they didn’t teach you the Faith and nothing rubbed off from attending all the Masses and listening to all their prayers? And then, you have the gall to blame the Church for your lack of catechesis?

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

But they didn’t teach you the Faith and nothing rubbed off from attending all the Masses and listening to all their prayers? And then, you have the gall to blame the Church for your lack of catechesis?

Did you read my post or just skim? They are good Catholics. It started with my Grandparents being mislead. It dosn’t make them bad. And they didn’t teach me much–I learned most from Lifeteen…oh–and so did they.

We said grace but that was it in our home as far as prayers. I’ve already told you what my parish life was like…so getting to Mass didn’t merit me excellent homilies by any stretch of the imagination.

And yes, the Church’s CCD played a HUGE part.

 

[De_Maria]

It is not foolish to make it a top priority, but as I stated in my post, that cannot be a top priority for everyone.

I didn’t say it had to be the priority for everyone. I’m certain there are devout Catholics who have a very good reason for living in an area without a Catholic Church. But I doubt that devout Catholics would search for a home without making the proximity of a Catholic Church a top priority.

 

[LittleWay16]

You just contradicted yourself. You said that there are devout Catholics who have good reasons to live in an area without a Catholic church. Then in the next sentence you say you doubt that a devout Catholic would choose to live somewhere that isn’t near a church.

As long as a person can get to mass, he is close enough to a church to be a devout Catholic. This could mean driving a distance to get there.

 

[De_Maria]

Gets me a tad bit riled to be told that I’m not a ‘good’ Catholic.

Again, I don’t recall saying that. But if you have come to that conclusion, I won’t argue with you. I can’t believe that anyone can live with devout Catholic parents and grand parents, and claim that they didn’t know anything about their faith when they were Confirmed.

And then to have the gall to blame the Church for their lack of interest, that’s mind blowing.

But I think its been made very clear where that comes into play.

Not really. What is clear is that you skewed the question in your poll. Let’s see if I can start another one with the question better phrased.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

You have said that ‘good’ Catholics do XYZ. I do not. That’s basic inference.

You still are doubting my experiance. There’s not enough eyeroll. Why to you continue to have such an issue with my personal testimony? Why do you continue to try to say it was my “lack of interest”. You’ve been provided with more than enough information on my personal history to grasp it. And it was Lifeteen that brought me my faith. Not the terrible CCD I was given. I did invest in my faith once I had a clue what it meant. (which was through an accidental WYD trip)

My family also has worked to “right the wrongs” of the lackluster CCD. You still fail time and again, to see that I wasn’t the only one who didn’t know. You think I’m lying that my father–who’d gone to church every Sunday for his whole life–was 50 before he heard of and went to Adoration. MMMMKKKKK. Sure. How was he to teach me what he did not know? How were my parents to provide me with a patron saint when the church told them, “name her whatever, we don’t do that anymore” Must you see the blank spot on my baptismal certificate and see my non-Christian name?

Go ahead, start a thread saying that “devout Catholics make Catholic Church proximity a priority” Yeah…let’s have a “more devout” contest. That’s going to end well.

 

[pianistclare]

Not many Catholics around my house, although the local CAtholic Church seems full, no idea where those people live…not near me, anyway.
I drive 25 mins to my parish which is also where I work.
The Monsignor that was there for decades was VERY beloved by the whole county. That parish was one of the few that had a large meeting hall, and while other denoms were building their own churches, Monsignor would let them hold services in our parish hall for free. So, he single-handedly changed the hearts of people in the south who thought Catholics were crazy.

I grew up in the Southwest, and nearly everyone was Catholic. Including the pueblo Indians. I’ve never really felt out of place anywhere.

 

[Mattapoisett64]

Your alleged residential obligations

They’re rooted in faith. Why would a Catholic move into an area without a Catholic Church? The only reason I can imagine is because something else was more important to him than his purported faith.

“Too seriously?” You’re the one setting-up an alleged obligation vis a vis one’s residence that the Church does not in fact impose. And you’re dodging my question: What’s “an area without a Catholic church?”

 

[De_Maria]

To be fair, I was raised in a 10th+ generation Presbyterian family and never learned 1/10 of what John Calvin or John Knox taught.

One tenth I can understand. But he’s claiming zero. Did you not read what he said?

FWIW, I stated my personal experiance of not being taught about the rosary, church tradition, saints, transubstantiation, etc because of poor catechetics. Also, that despite a spot for it on my baptismal certificate I was not given a patron saint. All my fault

To his credit, he hasn’t changed his story. But to his discredit, he continues to blame everyone else. Not himself for lack of interest or laziness or whatever.

To be fair, I was raised in a 10th+ generation Presbyterian family and never learned 1/10 of what John Calvin or John Knox taught.

I repeated your statement on purpose. Who’s fault do you think it was that you didn’t learn the other 9/10’s of Calvinism?

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

To his credit, he hasn’t changed his story. But to his discredit, he continues to blame everyone else. Not himself for lack of interest or laziness or whatever.

She. And I’ve stated MANY times that at the first opportunity I was granted (11th grade, post an accidental WYD) I took it. But yeah, let’s call a small child lazy for not knowing their faith…a faith that their parents practiced but didn’t even know the richness of. Blaming kids. That’ll win souls.

And when we, AS A FAMILY, figured out what was lost, we ALL acted on it and changed it.

But you know. We don’t take personal responsibility in my family.

 

[De_Maria]

She.

Then we have each other confused. You called me a “she” in an earlier message. I’m a man.

And I’ve stated MANY times that at the first opportunity I was granted (11th grade, post an accidental WYD) I took it. But yeah, let’s call a small child lazy for not knowing their faith…a faith that their parents practiced but didn’t even know the richness of. Blaming kids. That’ll win souls.

1. I don’t consider an 11th grader a small child.
2. I don’t believe that 11th grade was the first opportunity you were granted. Especially since you say that your parents and grandparents were faithful Catholics. The problem is that you didn’t take advantage of many years of opportunities to ask questions. Apparently, you were not very interested in the faith that your parents practiced. Otherwise, I would think that you would have asked questions.
3. I also don’t believe that you were not afforded any opportunities during the Mass or many other situations which afford the opportunity to ask questions or to do research.

Let me ask you, did you consider yourself a good student in any other areas, such as math, science, language, history, etc?