Is your parish violating Musicam Sacram?

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snarflemike

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Pretty sure 99% of the parishes I’ve ever attended are violating these rules (EDIT: regarding what is to be sung at a sung Mass). Does anybody take them seriously?

From Musicam Sacram:

28…These degrees are so arranged that the first may be used even by itself, but the second and third, wholly or partially, may never be used without the first. In this way the faithful will be continually led towards an ever greater participation in the singing.

29. The following belong to the first degree:

(a) In the entrance rites: the greeting of the priest together with the reply of the people; the prayer.

(b) In the Liturgy of the Word: the acclamations at the Gospel.

(c) In the Eucharistic Liturgy: the prayer over the offerings; the preface with its dialogue and the Sanctus; the final doxology of the Canon, the Lord’s prayer with its introduction and embolism; the Pax Domini; the prayer after the Communion; the formulas of dismissal.

30. The following belong to the second degree:

(a) the Kyrie, Gloria and Agnus Dei;

(b) the Creed;

(c) the prayer of the faithful.

31. The following belong to the third degree:

(a) the songs at the Entrance and Communion processions;

(b) the songs after the Lesson or Epistle;

(c) the Alleluia before the Gospel;

(d) the song at the Offertory;

(e) the readings of Sacred Scripture, unless it seems more suitable to proclaim them without singing.
 
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Since it seems from the OP that every Church is violating these rules this is a case for me filed under ignorance is bliss. I’m not downplaying the rules. Just saying I wasn’t aware of them.
 
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Citation please, with date, and also a strong argument that it is binding in Catholic parishes in 2019.

You can’t “violate” a recommendation, a good idea, or an old law.

You can only violate a current law.

Thanks in advance.
 
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Are you suggesting that Musicam Sacram, promulgated by Pope Paul VI in 1967, is no longer in force? I’d say you need to defend that proposition.
 
In my fourty years in the Catholic church in Australia I’ve seen the virtual disappearance of choirs and congregational singing.

To be replaced by taped music. If that counts a “music” I don’t know. Personally, I’d rather have nothing or a capella.
 
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snarflemike said:
Are you suggesting that Musicam Sacram, promulgated by Pope Paul VI in 1967, is no longer in force? I’d say you need to defend that proposition.
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You invoked Musicam Sacram without citation and asked whether it is being “violated”. I asked you to cite it and prove its legal force. You have to make your case, not me make mine.

It’s not up to me to know the background to your post.
 
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A lot of people have opinions on the music, songs and singing. For me it’s down on the list of things in Church I’m concerned with. If they did away with it, except Easter and Christmas, it’d be fine with me.
 
Zach said:
A lot of people have opinions on the music, songs and singing. For me it’s down on the list of things in Church I’m concerned with. If they did away with it, except Easter and Christmas, it’d be fine with me.
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But I’m not asking about opinions, I’m asking if parishes are violating the rules.
 
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I understand that. People were giving opinions on the music so I joined in. Like I said I wasn’t even aware of the rules and don’t even know if I understand them from your post 😃 so I can’t comment on them.
 
snarflemike said:
Are you joking? You can’t look up “Musicam Sacram” on the Vatican website?
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He wants a quote from MS. More specifically the parts of MS you’re using to make your argument, which isn’t an unreasonable request.
 
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Fauken said:
He wants a quote from MS. More specifically the parts of MS you’re using to make your argument, which isn’t an unreasonable request.
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90% of my original post was quoting Musicam Sacram. The part after " From Musicam Sacram :"
 
Did you pick a random obscure church law nobody knows just so you could pick a fight with the Church for not following the rules?

This question does not seem to have been asked out of curiosity but out of hostility and the OP’s further comments prove this.

@camoderator this thread is unproductive
 
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snarflemike said:
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Fauken:
He wants a quote from MS. More specifically the parts of MS you’re using to make your argument, which isn’t an unreasonable request.
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90% of my original post was quoting Musicam Sacram. The part after " From Musicam Sacram :"
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I’m not asking what’s in it - I trust that your extracts are valid. I’m asking its applicability and legal force in Catholic parishes in 2019.

That would (most likely) come from the introduction to the document itself, and then from Church documents mandating its use.

There may even be an article on the web explaining why Musicam Sacram is binding which you could refer to.

Until you have established that then we can’t talk about whether it’s being “violated”.
I assume you don’t like people with different ideas to yourself inventing non-existent “rules” and applying them to parishes?

Well it goes the same for all sides of these debates. If someone claims that something is a Church regulation then the onus is on them to show it. Others aren’t obliged to take them on trust or disprove their assertion.
 
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We do all of the first degree. Most of the 3rd and only one item of the second.
 
From the very beginning of Musicam Sacram:
Musicam Sacram:
Preface
  1. Sacred music, in those aspects which concern the liturgical renewal, was carefully considered by the Second Vatican Ecumenical Council. It explained its role in divine services, issued a number of principles and laws on this subject in the Constitution on the Liturgy, and devoted to it an entire chapter of the same Constitution.
  2. The decisions of the Council have already begun to be put into effect in the recently undertaken liturgical renewal. But the new norms concerning the arrangement of the sacred rites and the active participation of the faithful have given rise to several problems regarding sacred music and its ministerial role. These problems appear to be able to be solved by expounding more fully certain relevant principles of the Constitution on the Liturgy.
  3. Therefore the Consilium set up to implement the Constitution on the Liturgy, on the instructions of the Holy Father, has carefully considered these questions and prepared the present Instruction. This does not, however, gather together all the legislation on sacred music; it only establishes the principal norms which seem to be more necessary for our own day. It is, as it were, a continuation and complement of the preceding Instruction of this Sacred Congregation, prepared by this same Consilium on 26 September 1964, for the correct implementation of the Liturgy Constitution.
  4. It is to be hoped that pastors of souls, musicians and the faithful will gladly accept these norms and put them into practice, uniting their efforts to attain the true purpose of sacred music, “which is the glory of God and the sanctification of the faithful.”[1]
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(bolding mine) So I wonder if this is meant to be binding, or only general guidelines? Interpreting Musicam Sacram is not so easy, so I also recommend this analysis:
https://npm.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/HovdaIV.pdf

And finally, I wonder what the purpose of the OP question is? Can someone give an example of a common violation of this instruction? It seems like it is fairly easy to abide by these norms.
 
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