Is your parish violating Musicam Sacram?

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Edmundus1581 said:
. It has been useful to be referred back to the earlier papal instruction.
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This is true. Everyone should read this who is involved in decision making at a parish, along with Sing to the Lord and the GIRM. Then take each for what it is worth, and consider what one’s own parish needs.

For example, the elderly, over-worked, and infirm priest who can hardly sing a lick is becoming more common every year. This is a challenge that was not as prevalent in 1967. Having a priest who cannot sing alters the specifics, if not the general principles.
 
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I think my parish doesn’t violate this, but than again I’m from the Czech Republic :czech_republic: so…
 
Yes, it is a guideline, but anyone here ever heard these guidelines followed in any parish anywhere?
Sad.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
I think this Zenit q and a posted on EWTN pretty much says it all about Musicam Sacram in the USA:

What About 1967's Musicam Sacram? | EWTN

With that, I am muting the thread, as the last thing I need to read is the 1,000,000th thread where Catholics bicker over Mass music.
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Again, why announce your presence, your absence, or your disapproval of the thread? Do you imagine that we are all here waiting for your next utterance?
 
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Edmundus1581 said:
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Phemie:
Musicam Sacram is not an obscure document. But, when I asked the same question at a conference it was suggested that the articles in the GIRMs of 1975 & 2002 give the entrance & Communion antiphons/hymns much more importance than MS did and that therefore the GIRM is what’s in force now.

Imagine not singing the Gospel Acclamation because you don’t sing the Creed. I don’t think I’ve ever heard the Creed sung since Vatican II. Don’t recall hearing it before then either.
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Thanks for the info from the conference!

The only two times and places I’ve heard the creed sung by the congregation have been:
  • Late 1970s in the Anglican Church. The setting was Mass for the King of Glory by Betty Pulkingham, who managed to make guitar music for Mass acceptable, with SATB, light folk, style.
Eg. The Agnus Dei https://www.communityofcelebration.com/shop/media/clips/Jesus_Lamb_of_God.mp3

My church had a very capable youth choir who sounded just like that! 😃 ❤️

I liked it very much at the time but now I’m too old and I don’t think it would appeal to today’s youth. That clip is a lovely relic of the '70s!
  • A Mass in the Anglican ordinariate, quite recently, ie. Anglican again! The congregation chanted it and I don’t think it worked very well. It just felt like too much effort and was distracting.
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“Late 1970s in the Anglican Church. The setting was Mass for the King of Glory by Betty Pulkingham, who managed to make guitar music for Mass acceptable, with SATB, light folk, style.”

Guitar music for Mass acceptable? That’s debatable. Acceptable for who? 10-year-olds? That seems to be the biggest group of people who liked it, and of course many of them have left over the years since.
 
You left out the part just before your quote…
  1. The distinction between solemn, sung and read Mass, sanctioned by the Instruction of 1958 (n. 3), is retained, according to the traditional liturgical laws at present in force. However, for the sung Mass (Missa cantata), different degrees of participation are put forward here for reasons of pastoral usefulness, so that it may become easier to make the celebration of Mass more beautiful by singing, according to the capabilities of each congregation.
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Yet another reason why the document should be read in total…
 
It is worth remembering that the GIRM allows for regional variations (and in the case of the Personal Ordinariates significant differences); as with Canon Law it is not there to catch people out but to guide souls to God, the same can quite easily be applied to Instructions such as MS.

Prudence is the key element. If a priest has a dreadful singing voice (and some do despite training) it may be more reverential and prudent to say some parts and allow the congregation to sing others.
 
Dreadful singing voice?
Too bad all seminarians don’t receive this training. I wonder how much music education regular diocesan priests get?
“The students here will spend seven years studying to be a priest in the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter. They study subjects like Latin, theology, and philosophy. And every student is required to take 16 credits of music.”

nebraskapublicmedia.org

Nebraska Seminary Recording Introduces Gregorian Chants to New Audience

nebraskapublicmedia.org nebraskapublicmedia.org
 
Under the current curriculum, diocesan seminarians receive significant training in music and voice. Not to the extent of practicing Gregorian Chant three times per week, but still substantial training.

We have to take basic music classes, voice lessons, as well as cantor and sing for Mass. More advanced seminarians learn the specifics of the chanted Mass. Furthermore, there are other music electives that are offered as well.

I would guesstimate that most seminarians end up with ~10 credits of music by the time they graduate.
 
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Loud-living-dogma said:
Yes, it is a guideline, but anyone here ever heard these guidelines followed in any parish anywhere?
Sad.
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It has happened in a few parishes I attend with our schola, when the priest can sing. Not everybody can sing no matter how much training they have. Priests are no exception. Even the archbishop of the archdiocese our schola sings in, can’t hold a tune to save his life. It’s probably best he not sing. That doesn’t take away from his qualities as a shepherd for the archdiocese.

At the abbey where I regularly attend Mass, everything is sung except the homily. There’s a difference between a monastery with a schola, the average rural parish. So I’m very fortunate. Since I also work at the abbey library one day a week, I get Mass (and Lauds and Vespers if I attend) in Gregorian chant twice a week.
 
halogirl said:
I WISH we didn’t sing
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Oh, this makes my heart so sad. I’m so sorry you feel this way. I cannot even imagine being a Christian and not singing together with other Christians. I sing all day long, but music with my church family is sublime. I was created to accompany congregational singing, and when the congregation doesn’t sing, I’m rather useless in Holy Mother Church. And very, very sad. I can’t even tell you how much this post hurts my heart.

"I think of my blessed Redeemer,
I think of Him all the day long;
I sing, for I cannot be silent;
His love is the theme of my song."

–Fanny Crosby (blind hymn writer, 1820-1915)
 
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Well ok, to be fully honest I used to love singing in the Methodist church but I don’t like singing at mass - they always pick the same hymns in my parish and I prefer to speak the mass. I have lost all my old favourite hymns and the Catholic ones don’t pack the same punch so I’d rather none. Maybe that’s bad but that’s how I feel.
 
Now I would enjoy Gregorian chant. But none is offered anywhere near me and matter of fact nearest traditional Latin mass is like 30 miles away
 
The abbey, just to clarify, does the Ordinary Form in Gregorian chant according to the 1974 Graduale Romanum. The Divine Office is not the Liturgy of the Hours but Monastic Schema B which is a post-Conciliar Office that chants the entire psalter in one week.
 
halogirl said:
Well ok, to be fully honest I used to love singing in the Methodist church but I don’t like singing at mass - they always pick the same hymns in my parish and I prefer to speak the mass. I have lost all my old favourite hymns and the Catholic ones don’t pack the same punch so I’d rather none. Maybe that’s bad but that’s how I feel.
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I think you speak for many converts there! For many of us, Catholic parish music is a lifelong penance. How it came to be like that and what (if anything) can be done about it are also old questions, and of course have been raised in CAF before. (The common response of “get involved” has some merit - but I’ve given up after 12 years of strong involvement during which it has just got steadily worse. The musically and liturgically competent are often swimming against the tide).

Sing your heart out outside church - to Methodist, Anglican and traditional Catholic hymns. Lutheran also.

 
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halogirl said:
Well ok, to be fully honest I used to love singing in the Methodist church but I don’t like singing at mass - they always pick the same hymns in my parish and I prefer to speak the mass. I have lost all my old favourite hymns and the Catholic ones don’t pack the same punch so I’d rather none. Maybe that’s bad but that’s how I feel.
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I’m also a convert, and I often feel the same way. There’s some great Catholic hymns, but not that many. The Church’s musical heritage is less based in hymnody, but in chant. But with the types of music currently sung at most Catholic parishes, one might assume that the Catholic musical tradition only dates back to 1970!
 
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