Isaiah 53 and Yeshua

[Yerusalyim]

I am stunned.

Your analysis of Isaiah 53 as it applies to the Jewish people is PRECISELY the Jewish analysis!

How did you arrive at it, though a Christian?

I realize you do not agree with that analysis, but that’s the very way we see it!

In fact, what always made my blood chill was the way secular and antireligious Jews would mock the religious Jews who died in the death camps, saying things like, “Yeah, all they did was pray, and then they walked like sheep to their deaths!”

(that’s straight out of Isaiah 53 and the antireligious Jews did not even realize it).

HaShem,

Don’t misunderstand, I don’t DISAGREE with the Analysis…I think most, if not all passages of this nature have more than one meaning or fulfillment.

How did I come to this analysis? I read it with my “Jewish Heart.” Though raised Catholic and still Catholic, I’ve long had admiration for the Jewish people. My first introduction to Judaism was an Orthodox Rabbi in the Army Reserves. I have a deep and lasting relationship with a Reform Rabbi who invited me to worship with his congregation…so, for several years, I attend erev Shabbat services and the oneg afterwards…studied together (even broke open an english version of Talmud). He was worried that I was going to try to convert. I also had a friendship with a Conservative Rabbi and was even invited to join him at the head table during the Community Pesach celebration. I count another Orthodox Rabbi as a friend as well…and even attend shul on Fridays with an Chabad Rabbi contracted to serve a military community for a year.

Having said all that, I NEVER discussed IS 53 with them…on purpose…ANYTIME I’ve EVER heard a Christian bring up IS 53 with a Jew it was an attempt to “convert” them. My relationship with my Jewish friends is too important for me to spoil by this type of activity. But, with the exposure I’ve had to the community I read IS 53 with the “Jewish Heart” my friends instilled in me and this was the analysis I came up with…I’m pleased I’m thinking the right way. I’ve had good teachers. This is the first time I’ve felt comfortable discussing IS 53 with a Jew.

Yep, I’m a Christian, a Catholic, but I don’t think I need to try to “convert” Jews. I witness Christ to EVERYONE by my life. If asked I would gladly share my faith with a Jew, but I will not prostelyze the Jews because in my theology it’s important they remain faithful to the Law until the Return (or Coming in your case) of the Messiah.

 

[HashemEchad]

You sound like a great person, Yerusalyim! It does my heart good to see a nonJew who truly does understand.

Are you familiar with some of the priests (such as Fr Eugene Fisher) and rabbis (such as Rabbi David Rosen) involved in Jewish-Catholic ecumenical dialogue? You sound like the kind of person who might get a lot out of that

 

[Yerusalyim]

HaShem,

Thanks for the compliment. I have not hear of Fr. Fisher or Rabbi Rosen. Where can I find info on what they’re doing?

 

[Valke2]

This issue has been argued over for about 1,000 years (consistently). When I first saw this thread, I thought it was finally going to be resolved.

 

[Valke2]

From a Jewish persepective, it should be read not just in the context on what has happened to us in the Shoah, but also in the context of the time it was written, during the Babylonian exile. Israel was indeed the suffering servant at the time Isaiah 53 was most likely written.

While I obvioiusly disagree with the Christian interpretation of Isaiah, I think it is also obvious that both Christians and Jews can and should be able to increase thier awe and love of God through the prophetic writings and other scriptures. We should celebrate the fact that Isaiah speaks to both of us.

 

[MementoMori3283]

This issue has been argued over for about 1,000 years (consistently). When I first saw this thread, I thought it was finally going to be resolved.

If it can be said that New Testament writers dipped into Tanach and created Jesus, then why would the same proposers of this thought process deny that Jewish theologians, faced with a fledgling religion claiming to possess the Messiah of Judaism, would construct a Canon and a method of interpretation that would never allow for the man called Jesus to be considered.

I believe Scripture transcends time and the same truth exists now as did centuries ago. If Is 53 is to be understood in context with the Holocaust, which I believe to be a stretch because, in context, then verses 4 thru 8 would have to have been written by a non-Jew.

Also, Orthodox Jews, Anam can correct me if I am wrong, do not recognize the return to Israel as portrayed in verse 12.

 

[HashemEchad]

HaShem,

Thanks for the compliment. I have not hear of Fr. Fisher or Rabbi Rosen. Where can I find info on what they’re doing?

You can probably find info on them via Google. Rabbi Rosen is an Irish/South African Orthodox rabbi who serves as the Jewish ambassador to Vatican City, and Fr Fisher is a leader of the Catholic-Jewish Relations section of the National Conference of Catholic Bishops.