ISIS and Islam

[twf]

Let me start by stating that I recognize that many Muslims have spoken out against ISIS and that ISIS is hardly representative of the entire Muslim world. There are millions of good, decent Muslim men and women. I’ve had good friends who were Muslims. That being said, am I the only one who is sick of our leaders, including Vatican officials, telling us that ISIS and the conflict in Iraq / Syria has “nothing to do with religion” and “nothing to do with Islam”? I find that claim a slap across the face to the Christians and others who were slaughtered for refusing to convert to Islam. ISIS has nothing to do with Islam as practiced by many Muslims, but to insist that this conflict isn’t “religious” is a major stretch.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Let me start by stating that I recognize that many Muslims have spoken out against ISIS and that ISIS is hardly representative of the entire Muslim world. There are millions of good, decent Muslim men and women. I’ve had good friends who were Muslims. That being said, am I the only one who is sick of our leaders, including Vatican officials, telling us that ISIS and the conflict in Iraq / Syria has “nothing to do with religion” and “nothing to do with Islam”? I find that claim a slap across the face to the Christians and others who were slaughtered for refusing to convert to Islam. ISIS has nothing to do with Islam as practiced by many Muslims, but to insist that this conflict isn’t “religious” is a major stretch.

You are not alone.

 

[twf]

You are not alone.

I’ve noticed the media is using terms such as “Islamicists” rather than “Muslim” to differentiate the two. Why didn’t Catholics receive the same treatment when a minority of our priests were found to have abused children? They weren’t really Catholic priests…they were Catholicists…

 

[friardchips]

Let me start by stating that I recognize that many Muslims have spoken out against ISIS and that ISIS is hardly representative of the entire Muslim world. There are millions of good, decent Muslim men and women. I’ve had good friends who were Muslims. That being said, am I the only one who is sick of our leaders, including Vatican officials, telling us that ISIS and the conflict in Iraq / Syria has “nothing to do with religion” and “nothing to do with Islam”? I find that claim a slap across the face to the Christians and others who were slaughtered for refusing to convert to Islam. ISIS has nothing to do with Islam as practiced by many Muslims, but to insist that this conflict isn’t “religious” is a major stretch.

Where did you read about Vatican officials saying that this is not about religion? I am sure I read Pope Francis saying that these Christians were martyrs! I thought he also spoke about solidarity amongst people of different faiths? Or are you saying that you think the religion of Islam is to blame and that this religion is the cause?

 

[dronald]

I always want to ask if people like CAIR and MSA would consider the Copts in Egypt, the Christians/Yizidi’s in Iraq, or the underground Churches throughout the middle east who are afraid to share their faith are considered “Islamophobes”.

 

[JWH123]

Let me start by stating that I recognize that many Muslims have spoken out against ISIS and that ISIS is hardly representative of the entire Muslim world. There are millions of good, decent Muslim men and women. I’ve had good friends who were Muslims. That being said, am I the only one who is sick of our leaders, including Vatican officials, telling us that ISIS and the conflict in Iraq / Syria has “nothing to do with religion” and “nothing to do with Islam”? I find that claim a slap across the face to the Christians and others who were slaughtered for refusing to convert to Islam. ISIS has nothing to do with Islam as practiced by many Muslims, but to insist that this conflict isn’t “religious” is a major stretch.

Be careful about saying that what they are doing has nothing to do with Islam as practiced by many Muslims. Lukewarm Muslims outnumber hardcore Muslims by a large margin. The Q’uran preaches to smite the necks (behead) enemies of Islam who won’t convert. The talk that Islam is at its core a religion of peace is a blatant LIE. Most Muslims refuse to follow the Q’uran exactly as written. (I’d say the same about many Catholics and the Bible, like the ones who support abortion.) The difference is the Muslims who don’t follow it exactly are what we’d call good because they’re refusing the parts that their conscience says are wrong.

Muhammad started a religion based on pure evil. That’s why he is in hell with Satan. The devout ones are following him there. Jesus taught a way of living based on pure love for all. That’s why He is in Heaven and the devout ones are following Him there!

 

[steido01]

Looking forward to reading responses from Muslim posters.

 

[peace_at_last]

Without doubt it has religious elements in it although many speculate those who lead ISIS have brainwashed their followers solely for political gain. But it still has nothing to do with true Islam. It is an extremely distorted radicalized form of Islam, that is NOT Islam, albeit religious.

According to the Concise Oxford Dictionary religion is:
1-the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods. :arrow_forward:a particular system of faith and worship.
2-a pursuit or interest followed with great devotion.

With these definitions, one can label many horrible ungodly things as religious, but what is the point? Is the OP trying to tell us that since ISIS can be considered a religious movement and claims it is true Islam, then it is really true Islam and Islam must be bashed based on the actions of the ISIS?

 

[dronald]

Without doubt it has religious elements in it although many speculate those who lead ISIS have brainwashed their followers solely for political gain. But it still has nothing to do with true Islam. It is an extremely distorted radicalized form of Islam, that is NOT Islam, albeit religious.

According to the Concise Oxford Dictionary religion is:
1-the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods. :arrow_forward:a particular system of faith and worship.
2-a pursuit or interest followed with great devotion.

With these definitions, one can label many horrible ungodly things as religious, but what is the point? Is the OP trying to tell us that since ISIS can be considered a religious movement and claims it is true Islam, then it is really true Islam and Islam must be bashed based on the actions of the ISIS?

Likewise they would consider your Shia beliefs as apostasy.

 

[friardchips]

I haven’t studied the Quaran. I need to study Christian Theology before I do that. Then I could read the Quaran before attempting to pick apart other people’s belief systems.

God bless.

 

[peace_at_last]

Likewise they would consider your Shia beliefs as apostasy.

Pointless statement.

 

[Jack007]

A noted Muslim cleric in Kerala on Saturday issued a fatwa asking his community members to boycott the Islamic State also known as Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) and other terrorist organizations.

In his religious decree, general secretary of All India Sunni Jam-e-yyathul Ulema, Shaikh Abu Bakr Ahmad said favouring the extremist organizations is antithetical to the Islamic sharia.

“The Muslim world is in dire need to take cognizance of the threats posed by the anti-Islamic outfits. The militant groups among Muslims are causing harm to Islam in the false garb of Islamists. Any support or endorsement to the extremist and terrorist organizations goes completely against the Islamic sharia,” the Sunni-Sufi Islamic scholar said.

Stating that the ISIS or their self proclaimed Khalifates does not represent Islam by any means, the fatwa said, “They are not just anti-Islamic but are enemies of the humanity.”

"Their ruthless activities against people in Iraq and Syria are not meant for helping Muslims but defame Islam. Their anti-western interpretation of Islam is only aimed to serve their political agendas in the wider Muslim world.

“Supporting their activities through any means is forbidden according to the basic principles of Islam. I urge all the Muslims to condemn their activities and to pray for the people who suffer from their merciless activities,”

(Underlining mine)

 

[Kliska]

You are not alone.

Yep…

 

[dronald]

Pointless statement.

Not really.

To ISIS and ISIS supporters they are the purest form of Islam and yours is furthest from pure. In fact, I was able to find some ISIS supporters on Twitter and they speak like any other Muslim when condemning groups that aren’t pure like them.

So what Islam represents in its purest form is subjective. For example; they’ve established a ‘state’ and are fighting Christians until they pay the Jizya, therefore they’re following Surah 9:29 to a tee. Sharia courts are in action, which is more than secular Turkey can say.

So in some ways they’re more pure than your interpretation, and other governments.

 

[peace_at_last]

Not really.

To ISIS and ISIS supporters they are the purest form of Islam and yours is furthest from pure. In fact, I was able to find some ISIS supporters on Twitter and they speak like any other Muslim when condemning groups that aren’t pure like them.

So what Islam represents in its purest form is subjective. For example; they’ve established a ‘state’ and are fighting Christians until they pay the Jizya, therefore they’re following Surah 9:29 to a tee. Sharia courts are in action, which is more than secular Turkey can say.

So in some ways they’re more pure than your interpretation, and other governments.

The OP was speaking about the ISIS being a ‘religious’ movement or not. You are changing it to a Islam bashing thread. That is why your posts are pointless and irrelevant to what the OP had intended.

 

[Rhubarb]

I think it’s clear that Islam is connected to ISIS. But I think the connection the same as Christianity is connected to Joseph Kony’s Lord’s Resistance Army. I don’t consider Kony’s Christianity typical of the Faith, and I don’t consider ISIS’ Islam typical of the Faith. Extremists are the noisy minority. We can cherry-pick quotes from the Qu’ran to try and pin the blame for ISIS on Islam. But we can do the same for the Bible to pin the blame of Kony on Christianity.

I think a better question to consider is how is the connection to Islam different for ISIS than it is for the millions and millions of peaceful Muslims the OP recognizes. I think these questions better get to the heart of what drives ISIS and takes into account the incredibly vast majority of Muslims that aren’t nut-job extremists. The same for Kony and Christianity vs. the incredibly vast majority of Christians that aren’t nut-job extremists.

Personally, I think that geo-politics since long, long before 1918 better explains the problems in the Middle East than religion.

 

[Catholic_farmer]

According to a Catholic friend with family in Iraq, ISIS is made up primarily of thugs and criminals. They are robbing banks, stealing possessions, and channeling that money to support themselves. They force Christians from their homes with only the clothes on their backs and steal any jewelry they have on them. In short, they are acting very much like the atheistic Nazis did when rounding up the Jews. The religious element is apparently less important than the criminal element.

Think of where that money is going. Follow the money and you find some high ranking Middle Eastern people that aren’t very religious. But they do love money and hate Christians.

 

[Eric_Hilbert]

General Notice
This thread is treading on some thin ice. I’ll allow the discussion, but lets stay within the guidelines of inter-religious dialogue.

 

[peace_at_last]

I think it’s clear that Islam is connected to ISIS. But I think the connection the same as Christianity is connected to Joseph Kony’s Lord’s Resistance Army. I don’t consider Kony’s Christianity typical of the Faith, and I don’t consider ISIS’ Islam typical of the Faith. Extremists are the noisy minority. We can cherry-pick quotes from the Qu’ran to try and pin the blame for ISIS on Islam. But we can do the same for the Bible to pin the blame of Kony on Christianity.

Agreed

According to a Catholic friend with family in Iraq, ISIS is made up primarily of thugs and criminals. They are robbing banks, stealing possessions, and channeling that money to support themselves. They force Christians from their homes with only the clothes on their backs and steal any jewelry they have on them. In short, they are acting very much like the atheistic Nazis did when rounding up the Jews. The religious element is apparently less important than the criminal element.

Think of where that money is going. Follow the money and you find some high ranking Middle Eastern people that aren’t very religious. But they do love money and hate Christians.

Let me slightly correct that. The ISIS kills anyone-not just Christians-that does not accept their beliefs. Shias, Kurds, Alawis, Yazidis, Druze, and even non-extremist Sunnis.
The number of non-Christians that they have killed, specially Shias, is far higher than the Christians.

You are correct they that they are mostly thugs and criminals. Multiple reports were coming out (in non-English media) at the beginning of the crisis that Saudi Arabia had been sending inmates to fight alongside these thugs in return for reduction in prison time.

 

[GaryTaylor]

The ISIS kills anyone-not just Christians-that does not accept their beliefs. Shias, Kurds, Alawis, Yazidis, Druze, and even non-extremist Sunnis.
The number of non-Christians that they have killed, specially Shias, is far higher than the Christians.

Christians have been the largest target worldwide by Islam, and not only by isis.

google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCEQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcnsnews.com%2Fnews%2Farticle%2Fbarbara-boland%2Fpew-study-christians-are-world-s-most-oppressed-religious-group&ei=jUIpVOilA8S0ggTgkICIBw&usg=AFQjCNHgAgIH38FEx75ygPmmOw99IIm2zQ&sig2=ijTGzVdGSnhIBDs5Pmbbkw

google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDcQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.christianpost.com%2Fnews%2Fwhy-are-christians-the-worlds-most-persecuted-group-115410%2F&ei=yUIpVPi7B4WfggSnqYGgBA&usg=AFQjCNGvuoGldOI28ik74hGxdCuHodS65w&sig2=FGH33pZx8EFGUkvZ3rjZvQ

You are correct they that they are mostly thugs and criminals. Multiple reports were coming out (in non-English media) at the beginning of the crisis that Saudi Arabia had been sending inmates to fight alongside these thugs in return for reduction in prison time.

What is a thug aside from the connection to SA-prison-thug, can it be validated, is it the only valid context? For example would Hamas be considered thugs or the MB? And further are they following true islam.