Islam...a big scam?

[Calvin]

ktm:

Hi Calvin! Long time no chat.

I understand what you are trying to do. But maybe you can explain to me in what context “kill the unbelievers” would not mean what it says. I would welcome it if some Muslim could tell me if my literal interpretation is wrong! Seriously, I want to believe that Islam really is a religion of peace.

I should put my cards on the table before proceeding: I am not a religious pluralist. I think that many Muslims are in danger of hell because of their denial of Christ. When I was in Malaysia I prayed (whenever I heard the call to prayer) for the mass conversion of Muslims. There are a lot of disturbing things going on in Muslim societies (sharia law, treatment of women, etc.) and many Muslims use their religion as justification for doing some really awful things (Hammas, al Queda, etc.). Frankly a lot of Muslim leaders are not very good about condemning those who use their religion to kill.

Now with that said, I have read large chunks of the Koran and studied the religion a little. These are my observations:

The number of passages about killing infidels in the Koran itself is comparable to the number of passages in the Old Testament where God tells Israel to exterminate groups of people. Some Muslim scholars emphasize those passages, but most do not. (For the record, some Protestant groups teach a violent form of Christianity based on Bible passages. Goodle Fred Phelps, Identity Church or any of the Christian Militia groups for R-rated details.) Just as I don’t want Protestants to be blamed for Phelps, the Identity Movement, abortion clinic bombings, etc. or Catholics to be blamed for the Crusades, Inquisition, etc. – I don’t think it is fair to judge all of Islam based on the actions of a minority. We Christians have explanations for wrong behavior of other " Christians" and we should, in charity, extend the same courtesy to Muslims who are trying to explain that the actions of a few do not represent the religion as a whole.

Most of the really bad teachings are in the *hadeths *which are teachings of early Muslims on the Koran. (Like the Church Fathers.) Now here is the important point: Islam (except for Shia’ism) is *very *decentralized and comparable to Protestantism. Every teacher is (fairly) independent, the mosques are run on a congregational model, and heavy emphasis is put on exegetical teachings from The Book. Some imams recognize and use the hadeths as an additional source of authority and some do not.

So the picture is more complicated than “Islam is evil” or “Islam is a scam.” Vatican II did say that there is some truth in non-Christian religions. We need to recognize and encourage the truth that is in Islam in the hopes of getting them to see the fullness of truth that is in Christ. Blanket condemnations don’t help.

-C

 

[Magnanimity]

zange:

well, there seems to be a rash of anti-Islamic postings today.
(please check out the debate over in Apologetics)

I’m deeply saddend by all this, and worry what a Muslim reading this hatred of Islam might think. Because this hatred, this calling Islam a “satanic cult” is not a Catholic attitude toward Islam. The Church has a correct, loving and merciful attitude towards other religions, or I should say to those who practice other religions. Let’s be clear about one thing: no religion has ever murdered another human. Many PEOPLE, professing various religions (including Catholicism) have murdered other people.

May God have mercy on us all.
(and yes, I support the war on terrorism and even the invasion of Iraq)

Well, there would be a difference between anti-Islam postings and anti-Muslim ones wouldn’t there. My comments anyway tried to disparage the religion itself as cultic, a sorry offshoot of the one true religion-Catholicism. It just is cultic, even in a technical sense. Whenever someone takes an existing major religion and revises it to their own purposes and understanding and effectively makes themselves the pope of the new cult (a la the founder of Islam or Joseph Smith), then you just are dealing with a cult of the truth. And this is a perfectly Catholic attitude because it’s the truth. However, as you say, we should always acknowledge the good found in however much “light” individuals have when they are imbibed in other faiths. So much the more with Islam since its adherents are particularly passionate and demanding of such acknowledgement.

 

[David_F]

Auberon Quin:

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Thanks for the link on the inquisition, by the way. I may have to go dust off my master’s thesis and re-read it.

I wonder if I did the “quote” thing right?

Do you have the ability to post, or provide a link to your thesis? I would appreciate your take. Thanks…david

 

[jeffersonb73]

So the picture is more complicated than “Islam is evil” or “Islam is a scam.” Vatican II did say that there is some truth in non-Christian religions. We need to recognize and encourage the truth that is in Islam in the hopes of getting them to see the fullness of truth that is in Christ. Blanket condemnations don’t help.

Thank you for your charitable, balanced (name removed by moderator)ut. I wish more people would see it this way. We’ll never win people for Christ by condemning them, only by lovingly showing them the truth. We must show them a better way.
By the way, I’m new here. This is my first post. Hello, everyone.