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Booklover
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Really?
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manx
Guest
sad to say that you guys are loosing the plot. did you ever try to trace the root of this " Islamic Terrorism"? This goes all the way back to the Palestinian issue.Really?
And Mr. Bush thinks he can eliminate those terrorist with his “new world order”. It seems that his plans are backfiring coz they are just producing more terrorists!
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Lance
Guest
What do the terrorist in The Phillipines, Indonesia or Africa have to do with Palestine? Nothing, so your argument is false.
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StratusRose
Guest
The two cities of Mecca and Medina went to war. Muhammad and his followers won one battle (Battle of Badr) and managed to stalemate a Meccan attack in the Battle of the Trench. Through conquest and conversion, Muhammad was able to unite the surrounding tribes behind him and eventually assembled such a large force that Mecca capitulated without a fight. By the time Muhammad died, on June 8, 632, he and his followers had united the entire Arabian peninsula under his leadership, and had started to expand into the areas now known as Syria and Iraq.
After Muhammad’s death, Abu Bakr, his father-in-law and one of the earliest converts, assumed leadership of the Muslim community. This is still a matter of contention among Muslims; the largest sect of Islam, the Sunnis, and the various Shi’a sects, disagree radically as to the history and significance of Abu Bakr’s succession to what was later called the caliphate. For further discussion, see Succession to Muhammad.
Abu Bakr spent most of his brief caliphate fighting the Ridda Wars, bringing rebellious Arabian tribes to heel. After disaffection had been quelled, Muslim troops advanced into Syria, then a battleground between the Byzantine Empire and the Persian Sassanid empire. They won an unexpected victory against the Byzantines at the Battle of Yarmuk.
Abu Bakr’s successor, Umar ibn al-Khattab, expanded the Islamic empire even further, conquering most of what is now known as the Middle East, Egypt, northern Africa, and the Persian plateau.
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Shall I continue??? Ok, I will…
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StratusRose
Guest
The Fitna
First Islamic civil war Umar was succeeded by Uthman ibn Affan, another of Muhammad’s earliest followers. Under Uthman, the new empire fell into a civil war called the Fitna, or disorder. Many of Muhammad’s family and earliest followers were unhappy with Uthman, feeling that he was unduly favoring his kinsfolk and acting less like a religious leader and more like king. Rebellious soldiers killed Uthman and offered the leadership to Ali ibn Abi Talib, Muhammad’s cousin, foster-son, and son-in-law. Many Muslims refused to accept Ali as a leader; he spent his brief caliphate fighting against Muslim traditionalists and then against Uthman’s relatives. Ali was killed by a Kharijite assassin and Uthman’s family, the Umayyads, claimed the caliphate. They managed to retain leadership of the majority of Muslims for several generations, but save for a brief period, never again ruled over an undivided Islamic empire. The Islamic faith diverged as well, splitting into the three main traditions of today (Sunni, Shi’a, and Ibadi).
First Islamic civil war Umar was succeeded by Uthman ibn Affan, another of Muhammad’s earliest followers. Under Uthman, the new empire fell into a civil war called the Fitna, or disorder. Many of Muhammad’s family and earliest followers were unhappy with Uthman, feeling that he was unduly favoring his kinsfolk and acting less like a religious leader and more like king. Rebellious soldiers killed Uthman and offered the leadership to Ali ibn Abi Talib, Muhammad’s cousin, foster-son, and son-in-law. Many Muslims refused to accept Ali as a leader; he spent his brief caliphate fighting against Muslim traditionalists and then against Uthman’s relatives. Ali was killed by a Kharijite assassin and Uthman’s family, the Umayyads, claimed the caliphate. They managed to retain leadership of the majority of Muslims for several generations, but save for a brief period, never again ruled over an undivided Islamic empire. The Islamic faith diverged as well, splitting into the three main traditions of today (Sunni, Shi’a, and Ibadi).
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StratusRose
Guest
Quran 4.89 - "89. They would like you to reject the faith as they have done themselves, that you may be all alike; therefore, make no friends with them until they emigrate in the cause of Allah. But if they turn back (to hostility), then capture them and kill them wherever you find them, and do not take anyone of them as a friend or as a helper. "…
Quran 4.91 - "91. You will find others (among these hypocrites) who desire to be secure from you as well as safe from their own people. But whenever they are made to have a recourse to hostility (towards the Muslims) they fall headlong into it (as if under compulsion). Therefore if they do not leave you alone, nor make an offer of peace to you nor withhold their hands (from being hostile), then capture them and kill them wherever you find them. And it is these against whom We have given you absolute authority. SECTION 13 "…
Quran 4.91 - "91. You will find others (among these hypocrites) who desire to be secure from you as well as safe from their own people. But whenever they are made to have a recourse to hostility (towards the Muslims) they fall headlong into it (as if under compulsion). Therefore if they do not leave you alone, nor make an offer of peace to you nor withhold their hands (from being hostile), then capture them and kill them wherever you find them. And it is these against whom We have given you absolute authority. SECTION 13 "…
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selvaraj
Guest
“August 29, 2005 program aired in Saudi Arabia on Iqra TV, a Saudi-based station, which solicited funds for the Saudi Committee for the Support of the al Quds Intifadah … Saudi Arabia’s secretary-general of the official Muslim World League Koran Memorization Commission, Sheikh Abdallah Basfar, urged Muslims everywhere to fund terrorism.” He said: “The Prophet said: ‘He who equips a fighter – it is as if he himself fought.’ You lie in your bed, safe in your own home, and donate money and Allah credits you with the rewards of a fighter. What is this? A privilege.” Basfar asked donors to direct funds to a Joint Account 98 at “all banks in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.”
frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=20150
In Christ,
selvaraj
frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=20150
In Christ,
selvaraj
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Pentecost2005
Guest
selvaraj said:
Well, apparently Mohammed wasn’t wrong about EVERYTHING.
Of course, this goes for flag-waving Americans too. I’m no fan of Islam, but if you’re so convinced that this war is justified, well, good luck when you stand before the Lord. (One has to wonder how many kings pro-war Catholics have, anyway.)
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Lance
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Sorry, I don’t understand your question about how many kings I have. I don’t have any kings on earth. I am pro-defense but not pro war and I think it is disingenuous of you to accuse us of being pro war.
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Rodrigo_Bivar
Guest
The root of Islamic terrorism goes back to Muhammad when he made a SURPRISE ATTACK on the Jews, the Banu Mustaliq. Some accounts claim the B. Mustaliq had rejected his peace offering, i.e. abject surrender, and chose to fight, but the sahih hadith shows this to be false. There was no justification for Muhammad to attack the B. Mustaliq who were taken by surprise - meaning they never expected any conflict between themselves and the Muslims. Muhammad saw an opportunity to enrich himself and did so.
Sahih Bukhari: Book 019, Number 4292:
Ibn ‘Aun reported: I wrote to Nafi’ inquiring from him whether it was necessary to extend (to the disbelievers) an invitation to accept (Islam) before meeting them in fight. He wrote (in reply) to me that it was necessary in the early days of Islam. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) made a raid upon Banu Mustaliq while they were unaware and their cattle were having a drink at the water. He killed those who fought and imprisoned others. On that very day, he captured Juwairiya bint al-Harith. Nafi’ said that this tradition was related to him by Abdullah b. Umar who (himself) was among the raiding troops.
This shows that it was okay for Muslims to attack an unsuspecting enemy. Then if any of the victims fight they can be reasonably killed for ‘resisting Islam’.
For more evidence:
Book 019, Number 4294:
It has been reported from Sulaiman b. Buraid through his father that when the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) appointed anyone as leader of an army or detachment he would especially exhort him to fear Allah and to be good to the Muslims who were with him. He would say: Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war, do not embezzle the spoils; do not break your pledge; and do not mutilate (the dead) bodies; do not kill the children. When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them…
If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah’s help and fight them…
Book 019, Number 4294:
It has been reported from Sulaiman b. Buraid through his father that when the Messenger of Allah… would say: Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war, do not embezzle the spoils; do not break your pledge; and do not mutilate (the dead) bodies; do not kill the children. When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them. Then invite them to migrate from their lands to the land of Muhairs and inform them that, if they do so, they shall have all the privileges and obligations of the Muhajirs. If they refuse to migrate, tell them that they will have the status of Bedouin Muilims … If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah’s help and fight them. …
According to this last hadith a Muslim must invite a non-Muslim to convert. If he resists convertion then he must pay the Jizya (i.e. protection money). If he resists then he must die. How Merciful was the Profit of Allah.
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MugenOne
Guest
Selvaraj is correct! Citibank, part owner of Saudi American Bank (SAMBA), was forced to shut down its operations in the kingdom because of this Joint Article 98.
selvaraj said:
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manx
Guest
Rodrigo Bivar:
Because if your case against Islam is strong then why dont we sue this religion to the International Court and call for its ban. Not easy isn’t it? Islamic scholars will surely have a good explanation for our misunderstandings. That will be a great humiliation to us.
It looks like you got this from a typical Islam-bashing site. have you asked a knowledgeable Muslim (shekh or Islamic scholar) about this before you formed your opinion? I would, if I were you.
Because if your case against Islam is strong then why dont we sue this religion to the International Court and call for its ban. Not easy isn’t it? Islamic scholars will surely have a good explanation for our misunderstandings. That will be a great humiliation to us.
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manx
Guest
Rodrigo Bivar:
Knowing that Jews are generally treacherous and they continue to blaspheme Jesus and blessed Mary, I would have supported the Prophet of Islam if I was there during that time.
Well, are you saying that what the Jews and their Zionist-Christian friends are doing with the Palestinians are justified?
Knowing that Jews are generally treacherous and they continue to blaspheme Jesus and blessed Mary, I would have supported the Prophet of Islam if I was there during that time.
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cute2904
Guest
Funny… a terrorist urges everyone to fund terrorism which automatically become terrorists as well because they help terrorism. They prefer to rest in piece rather than to live in peace.
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cute2904
Guest
Koran should be banned. If it were not a holy book for a billion of people, I suggest we ban Koran as its teaching hatred and violent.
Yes it is not easy, however scholar should have a good explanation to defend their position what ever it is. We don’t care for other faith or religions as long as they are not a threat for humankind. We care for humanity. I have seen many innocent people die for nothing. We are not attacking the muslims but we are attacking (or questioning more appropriate) their doctrines. Killing the infidels in the name of god. They call us infidels… if I have to defend myself, I am not an infidel, I have God. Just because someone is not in the same faith in you doesn’t mean we are deserved to be killed. Doesn’t mean we have to pay the jizya tax and being dhimmi etc. Good explanation doesn’t prove that they are right. They may twist words, they may use taqiyya(lie) for the sake of Islam. Do not dazzled by their good explanations.
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manx
Guest
Like the Bible, the Koran can be misinterpreted to fit ones own desire. What we should work for is to support moderate Muslims who promote the middle path.
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manx
Guest
Probably if you have the same exposure as I have with the Muslims, your opinion will change. Most of them do not agree in calling non-Muslims as infidels. They take it as extreme and very harsh. It is negative and it does not represent a good image of their religion. I think only those hard-line fanatics are fond of using the word.
Muslims are ordinary humans like us who wants to live a peacful and decent life. Surprisingly, I found many structures in Islam that can help promote our Christian morals and values.
peace
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Booklover
Guest
Well, I can see from your posts that you’ve become another defender of Islam!
Muslims are allowed to live peacefully in other countries as long as they’re minorities, to lull others into a fall sense of security, but when they become the majority they show their claws and demand that their inhuman sharia laws be imposed on everyone! That is not freedom, that is nothing but a reign of terror!
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Rachel_Malloy
Guest
This thread is now closed.
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