Islam and Afterlife

[Justin1982]

My wife and I just got done discussing the Muslim belief in the reception of 72 virgins in paradise. I am curious as to the understanding of why would a spirit need 72 virgins when the purpose for sex is procreation and absent of the body there is no desire for sex seeing as sex is a human desire? Is this supposed to be a literal translation or is this meant to be a human understanding of the happiness felt in Heaven?

 

[benidict]

My wife and I just got done discussing the Muslim belief in the reception of 72 virgins in paradise. I am curious as to the understanding of why would a spirit need 72 virgins when the purpose for sex is procreation and absent of the body there is no desire for sex seeing as sex is a human desire? Is this supposed to be a literal translation or is this meant to be a human understanding of the happiness felt in Heaven?

yep its literal…doesnt sound like heaven to me. sounds like too much work. it is exausting keeping one woman happy. (thankfully i dont have to) i cannot imagine 72. also what do the female martyres get? maybe we shouldnt go there… Peace

 

[hamba2han]

For anyone who is really, really, REALLY interested in finding out what we can expect in Paradise according to the teachings of Islam, then I would suggest that they listen to a 1-hour lecture by Tawfique Choudury of which the 1st of 7 segments is as follows:

youtube.com/watch?v=hpbQyQLViNo

And BTW, I opened a thread some time ago describing the things that disbelievers can expect to discover in the Afterlife in the event that Islam does turn out to be the Truth.

 

[Justin1982]

hamba2han:

And BTW, I opened a thread some time ago describing the things that disbelievers can expect to discover in the Afterlife in the event that Islam does turn out to be the Truth.

I appreciate the response to my thread however it seems attaching that last thread is a bit of a scare tactic. I may be a neophyte but I have come to a better understanding of my faith that I wish more Catholics had, suffice it to say that thus far nobody has shaken my faith and I’ve had some whoppers thrown my way in my short Catholic life.

 

[aicirt]

In the Catholic Bible the quote from Jesus is “In my Father’s House there are many Mansions and I go to prepare for you.”

I was always intrigued about how big God’s house must be to house many mansions.

Catholics are told that their job on earth is to love, honor and obey God and to be happy with him in heaven. We don’t look for material things after we’re dead. We look to be united with God. The Beatific Vision is what we look forward to.

 

[Mark77]

In the Catholic Bible the quote from Jesus is “In my Father’s House there are many Mansions and I go to prepare for you.”

I was always intrigued about how big God’s house must be to house many mansions.

Catholics are told that their job on earth is to love, honor and obey God and to be happy with him in heaven. We don’t look for material things after we’re dead. We look to be united with God. The Beatific Vision is what we look forward to.

**Exactly!

The Truth of Jesus Christ, our Lord & Savior, will set you free!
**
Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

mark

 

[benidict]

In the Catholic Bible the quote from Jesus is “In my Father’s House there are many Mansions and I go to prepare for you.”

I was always intrigued about how big God’s house must be to house many mansions.

Catholics are told that their job on earth is to love, honor and obey God and to be happy with him in heaven. We don’t look for material things after we’re dead. We look to be united with God. The Beatific Vision is what we look forward to.

ah yes my friend. but there is so much more. a new heavens and a new earth. a reinstatement of what was before the fall. the physical, and the spiritual brought into perfect harmony with the Creator. the material will be made perfect and good. just as adam and eve Walked with God, we too. will walk with him. peace

 

[aicirt]

For anyone who is really, really, REALLY interested in finding out what we can expect in Paradise according to the teachings of Islam, then I would suggest that they listen to a 1-hour lecture by Tawfique Choudury of which the 1st of 7 segments is as follows:

youtube.com/watch?v=hpbQyQLViNo

Why aren’t there women at your services? And what do they get in heaven? How does a woman get to heaven?

 

[Sam_777]

why would a spirit need 72 virgins when the purpose for sex is procreation and absent of the body there is no desire for sex seeing as sex is a human desire?

Islam does not teach about the absent of the body!, indeed Islamic paradise is full of desires, here are some what to expect there:

1) (Quran 44:54):
“Moreover, We shall join them to Companions with beautiful, big, and lustrous eyes.”

**2) No singles in paradise (all married).
**Sahih Muslim, Book 040, Number 6793:
“Muhammad reported that some (persons) stated with a sense of pride and some discussed whether there would be more men in Paradise or more women. It was upon this that Abu Huraira reported that Abu’l Qasim (the Holy Prophet) (may peace be upon him) said: The (members) of the first group to get into Paradise would have their faces as bright as full moon during the night, and the next to this group would have their faces as bright as the shining stars in the sky, and every person would have two wives and the marrow of their shanks would glimmer beneath the flesh and there would be none without a wife in Paradise.”

صحيح مسلم:
إما تفاخروا وإما تذاكروا الرجال في الجنة أكثر أم النساء فقال ‏ ‏أبو هريرة ‏ ‏أو لم يقل ‏ ‏أبو القاسم ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏إن أول ‏ ‏زمرة ‏ ‏تدخل الجنة على صورة القمر ليلة البدر والتي تليها على ‏ ‏أضوإ كوكب ‏ ‏دري ‏ ‏في السماء لكل امرئ منهم زوجتان اثنتان يرى مخ سوقهما من وراء اللحم وما في الجنة أعزب ‏
​

(E) (A)

**3) Power of 100 men. **
Musnad Ahmed Hadith #18469:
“…*And The Messenger of Allah may Allah bless him swear that the person would get the power of 100 men in eating, drinking, lust, and sex…”

مسند أحمد​

*:**
أتى النبي ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏رجل من ‏ ‏اليهود ‏ ‏فقال يا ‏ ‏أبا القاسم ‏ ‏ألست تزعم أن أهل الجنة يأكلون فيها ويشربون وقال لأصحابه إن أقر لي بهذه خصمته قال فقال رسول الله ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏بلى والذي نفسي بيده ‏ ‏إن أحدهم ‏ ‏ليعطى قوة مائة رجل في المطعم والمشرب والشهوة والجماع قال فقال له اليهودي فإن الذي يأكل ويشرب تكون له الحاجة قال فقال رسول الله ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏حاجة أحدهم عرق يفيض من جلودهم مثل ريح ‏ ‏المسك ‏ ‏فإذا البطن قد ‏ ‏ضمر ‏
(A)

​

**4) 72 Hours.
**Musnad Ahmed Hadith #10511:
“The Messenger of Allah may Allah bless him said that the lowest status of the person in Paradise has seven degrees and he is in the sixth one and above him is the seventh, and he has 300 servants, and every day 300 golden food trays served for him, in each tray a food color other than the other one and its delicious from its beginning till its end , and he says O Lord, if you authorize me to feed and give drinks to the people of Paradise it will not reduce from my food anything, and he has of the wives 72 Hours(Virgins) other than his earthy wives, and each Hour(Virgin) has a seat (place) of one earth mile.”

مسند أحمد**:**
قال رسول الله ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏إن أدنى أهل الجنة منزلة إن له لسبع درجات وهو على السادسة وفوقه السابعة وإن له لثلاث مائة خادم ‏ ‏ويغدى عليه ويراح كل يوم ثلاث مائة صحفة ‏ ‏ولا أعلمه إلا قال ‏ ‏من ذهب في كل صحفة لون ليس في الأخرى وإنه ليلذ أوله كما يلذ آخره وإنه ليقول يا رب لو أذنت لي لأطعمت أهل الجنة وسقيتهم لم ينقص مما عندي شيء وإن له من الحور العين لاثنين وسبعين زوجة سوى أزواجه من الدنيا وإن الواحدة منهن ليأخذ مقعدها قدر ميل من الأرض ‏
​

(A)

**5) 80000 servants & 72 wives.
**Sunan Altermizy Hadith #2485:
“The Messenger of Allah may Allah bless him said that the lowest person in Paradise has 80,000 servants and 72 wives, and a dome from pearl, peridot, and ruby as the distance between the Jabia city and Sanaa city.”

سنن الترمذي**:**
قال رسول الله ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏أدنى أهل الجنة الذي له ثمانون ألف خادم واثنتان وسبعون زوجة وتنصب له ‏ ‏قبة ‏ ‏من لؤلؤ وزبرجد وياقوت كما بين ‏ ‏الجابية ‏ ‏إلى ‏ ‏صنعاء ‏
​

(A)

 

[aicirt]

You mentioned lust, drink, and 72 virgins etc. Lust is a sin for Muslims on this earth. Believe some get stoned for fornication and adultery. How is sin okay in paradise? And who are these perpetual virgins and servants? How can that be paradise for them waiting on someone else and catering to his whims for eternity? Pretty hellish. And if they are not real people but illusions, how does the Muslim who hasn’t lost his body have sex with an illusion?

The Muslim has a wife who is also with him along with the 72 virgins. Does she get 72 guys?

I’ve also read that if the Muslim has an appetite for boys, they’ll be provided too. Which is also confusing. Muslim on earth gets killed for homosexual acts. Oddly, Allah kills him here for his sin but rewards him in paradise for the same sin.

If the Muslim fornicator is killed for his sin, should we assume he’d go to hell? Or now that he’s dead and still has the same desires, is he sent to heaven to continue lusting? And will his earthly partner with whom he was engaging in sex be available for him? She would have been killed too, right?

Who goes to hell?

 

[Sam_777]

Lust is a sin for Muslims on this earth.

If that lust was illegal (outside the Islamic law), else it’s legal per (Quran 3:14):
“The love of desires, of women and sons and hoarded treasures of gold and silver and well bred horses and cattle and tilth, is made to seem fair to men; this is the provision of the life of this world; and Allah is He with Whom is the good goal (of life).”

زُيِّنَ لِلنَّاسِ حُبُّ الشَّهَوَاتِ مِنَ النِّسَاءِ وَالبَنِينَ وَالقَنَاطِيرِ المُقَنْطَرَةِ مِنَ الذَّهَبِ وَالفِضَّةِ وَالخَيْلِ المُسَوَّمَةِ وَالأَنْعَامِ وَالحَرْثِ ذَلِكَ مَتَاعُ الحَيَاةِ الدُّنْيَا وَاللَّهُ عِنْدَهُ حُسْنُ المَآبِ
​

how does the Muslim who hasn’t lost his body have sex with an illusion?

That is not illusion, Muslims believe in physical rewards in paradise.

Does she get 72 guys?

I’ve also read that if the Muslim has an appetite for boys, they’ll be provided too.

Not a boy for sex, but a boy or a girl as a “child” .

Who goes to hell?

There is a sad answer for this question :dts:, Muhammed said women are majority and the fuel of hell:
01) Women are majority of hell.
Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Number 1982:
…I saw Hell also. No such (abominable) sight have I ever seen as that which I saw today; and I observed that most of its inhabitants were women. They said: Messenger of Allah, on what account is it so? He said: For their ingratitude or disbelief (bi-kufraihinna). It was said: Do they disbelieve in Allah? He said: (Not for their disbelief in God) but for their ingratitude to their husbands and ingratitude to kindness. If you were to treat one of them kindly for ever, but if she later saw anything (displeasing) in you, she would say: i have never seen any good in you.

صحيح مسلم:
ورأيت النار فلم أر كاليوم منظرا قط ورأيت أكثر أهلها النساء قالوا بم يا رسول الله قال ‏ ‏بكفرهن ‏ ‏قيل أيكفرن بالله قال ‏ ‏بكفر ‏ ‏العشير ‏ ‏وبكفر الإحسان لو أحسنت إلى إحداهن الدهر ثم رأت منك شيئا قالت ما رأيت منك خيرا قط ‏
​

(E) (A)

02) Women are the fuel of hell.
Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Number 1926:
…He then walked on till he came to the women and preached to them and admonished them, and asked them to give alms, for most of them are the fuel for Hell.

صحيح مسلم:
ثم مضى حتى أتى النساء فوعظهن وذكرهن فقال ‏ ‏تصدقن فإن أكثركن حطب جهنم
​

(E) (A)

 

[aicirt]

If that lust was illegal (outside the Islamic law), else it’s legal per (Quran 3:14):
“The love of desires, of women and sons and hoarded treasures of gold and silver and well bred horses and cattle and tilth, is made to seem fair to men; this is the provision of the life of this world; and Allah is He with Whom is the good goal (of life).”

زُيِّنَ لِلنَّاسِ حُبُّ الشَّهَوَاتِ مِنَ النِّسَاءِ وَالبَنِينَ وَالقَنَاطِيرِ المُقَنْطَرَةِ مِنَ الذَّهَبِ وَالفِضَّةِ وَالخَيْلِ المُسَوَّمَةِ وَالأَنْعَامِ وَالحَرْثِ ذَلِكَ مَتَاعُ الحَيَاةِ الدُّنْيَا وَاللَّهُ عِنْدَهُ حُسْنُ المَآبِ
​

That is not illusion, Muslims believe in physical rewards in paradise.



Not a boy for sex, but a boy or a girl as a “child” .

There is a sad answer for this question :dts:, Muhammed said women are majority and the fuel of hell:
01) Women are majority of hell.
Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Number 1982:
…I saw Hell also. No such (abominable) sight have I ever seen as that which I saw today; and I observed that most of its inhabitants were women. They said: Messenger of Allah, on what account is it so? He said: For their ingratitude or disbelief (bi-kufraihinna). It was said: Do they disbelieve in Allah? He said: (Not for their disbelief in God) but for their ingratitude to their husbands and ingratitude to kindness. If you were to treat one of them kindly for ever, but if she later saw anything (displeasing) in you, she would say: i have never seen any good in you.

صحيح مسلم:
ورأيت النار فلم أر كاليوم منظرا قط ورأيت أكثر أهلها النساء قالوا بم يا رسول الله قال ‏ ‏بكفرهن ‏ ‏قيل أيكفرن بالله قال ‏ ‏بكفر ‏ ‏العشير ‏ ‏وبكفر الإحسان لو أحسنت إلى إحداهن الدهر ثم رأت منك شيئا قالت ما رأيت منك خيرا قط ‏
​

(E) (A)

02) Women are the fuel of hell.
Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Number 1926:
…He then walked on till he came to the women and preached to them and admonished them, and asked them to give alms, for most of them are the fuel for Hell.

صحيح مسلم:
ثم مضى حتى أتى النساء فوعظهن وذكرهن فقال ‏ ‏تصدقن فإن أكثركن حطب جهنم
​

(E) (A)

What would be “legal” lust for a Muslim?

Yes, I get they believe in physical rewards in heaven, but who are these 72 perpetual virgins? Are they women who have died or something created for the Muslim man’s pleasure?

I’ve read that those that commit jihad (9/11 terrorists) get 72 virgins but boys can be provided it that is appealing to them. True or false?

What’s the purpose of these children you referred to?

So a Muslim woman must be happy that she made it into Muslim heaven and gets to watch her husband with the 72 babes. Only other choice is hell. No studs for her.

I’m sure there are Muslims who are brilliant thinkers. I just can’t conceive of them finding anything logical in the above. Let me give an example: As a kid we were taught in cathecism that God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son. I and many others were appalled. I can still fell that feeling while my mind flashed “What kind of God is this?” I was about nine years of age.
Fortunately, the story continued that God stopped him because God loved Abraham so much that He would never want to cause Abraham that kind of heartache. That is mercy. Instead, God sent His Son Jesuse to be the sacrifice. That is Love.

There must be Muslims who have to be thinking this makes no sense on so many levels. And I’m thinking that they can’t leave for fear of being killed.

 

[elwill]

My wife and I just got done discussing the Muslim belief in the reception of 72 virgins in paradise. I am curious as to the understanding of why would a spirit need 72 virgins when the purpose for sex is procreation and absent of the body there is no desire for sex seeing as sex is a human desire? Is this supposed to be a literal translation or is this meant to be a human understanding of the happiness felt in Heaven?

hi justin , to answering you directly
in islam , we believe that we will live in paradise by our body , and the disbelievers also will abide in hell with their body

Those in Jannah live a blissful, peaceful life full of sensual pleasures. Anything they wish to eat and drink is available. They wear the finest clothing and robes and will forever live in the prime of their lives at 33 years of age. They hear celestial music, and animals, vegetation and landscapes dazzle their eyesight. Everyone rejoices in the company of their family and friends

 

[Justin1982]

I appreciate the answers Sam_777 though I’m not sure I can grasp the Muslim concept of paradise, it seems far too materialistic and pleasure fulfilling. I for one see that the power of love is far more fulfilling than any bodily desire and absent of the body what is left but love. The spirit should learn love during the human lifetime to better understand eternity in Heaven.

I find it interesting when you consider the growth of Islam with a material afterlife and the growth of the material culture. When people truly value and experience love I feel that Christianity will again flourish.

 

[Justin1982]

There is a sad answer for this question :dts:, Muhammed said women are majority and the fuel of hell:
01) Women are majority of hell.
Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Number 1982:
…I saw Hell also. No such (abominable) sight have I ever seen as that which I saw today; and I observed that most of its inhabitants were women. They said: Messenger of Allah, on what account is it so? He said: For their ingratitude or disbelief (bi-kufraihinna). It was said: Do they disbelieve in Allah? He said: (Not for their disbelief in God) but for their ingratitude to their husbands and ingratitude to kindness. If you were to treat one of them kindly for ever, but if she later saw anything (displeasing) in you, she would say: i have never seen any good in you.

Is there a side to that showing how mistreatment of women is punishable in hell too? It really is being portrayed as a one way street here. It almost seems as if women are guilty until proven innocent. Is there a deeper reasoning to this, does it have to due with the sins of Adam and Eve? Christianity gave us the most perfect fully human person in the embodiment of Mary, that levels the playing field so to speak in the Christian family.

 

[trdchubi]

Motivations for a poor, oppressed, sex starved individuals. Who invented these revelations anyway? That con man of a prophet surely knows how to play his tricks on men…

Now that would be tempting and erotic…if I am a desperate dim-wit.

 

[Justin1982]

Motivations for a poor, oppressed, sex starved individuals. Who invented these revelations anyway? That con man of a prophet surely knows how to play his tricks on men…

Now that would be tempting and erotic…if I am a desperate dim-wit.

I don’t know that you use correct logic in this discussion, open attacks will only turn people off to what you have to say. It seems a bit overstated to throw unwarranted disrespectful thoughts at someone for their religious belief, if you disagree than so be it, bring upon your argument with respect to all. You may feel that others believe in a skewed theology but open assault is not going to make them want to listen to what you have to say if it is brought forth disrespectfully.
I disagree with the belief in the view of the Muslim afterlife and how materialistic it seems when God strives to push us away from materialism in our lives. This is a gentlemen’s disagreement on gentlemen terms discussed in a civil manner. Anti-Islamic banter does not help a civil discussion. Just like your Mom used to tell you, “If you don’t have anything to say, keep it to yourself.”

 

[aicirt]

For those of you who have HBO, you might want to watch the raid in Mumbai, India. Remember when the terrorists stormed the hotel etc.? Security cameras got them on tape and audio. They were in constant touch with some operative directing them from outside India. The terrorists were in late teens or early 20s and impoverished. They were doing it for the materialistic treasures they were told they’d receive in Muslim paradise. They were so impoverished that they were distracted looking at all the stuff in the hotel and shops much to the annoyance of the operative. This is very sad.

They were probably being backed by oil rich Muslims who have so much money they could easily transform the lives of the impoverished Muslims. If they wanted to do something for the good of the world, they could provide means for the drug growers in Afganistan. There’s water under Egypt that’s larger than our Great Lakes. They could turn the Sahara into a paradise. All is possible right here on earth because one thing Allah did bless them with is oil. Instead, these kids are kept poor and the only way out to the good life is to be used as canon fodder.

Yes, I too find the discription of Muslim paradise very materialistic. And I’d really appreciate any answers to my former questions. Why do Muslims dislike women so much?

 

[Justin1982]

This shows the Christian ideal that God is very much opposed to materialism:

Matthew 4:8-10
(8) Then the devil took him up to a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in their magnificence, (9) and he said to him, “all these I shall give to you, if you will prostrate yourself and worship me.” (10) At this time, Jesus said to him, “Get away, Satan! It is written: the Lord, your God, shall you worship and him alone shall you serve.”

 

[elwill]

I appreciate the answers Sam_777 though I’m not sure I can grasp the Muslim concept of paradise, it seems far too materialistic and pleasure fulfilling.** I for one see that the power of love is far more fulfilling than any bodily desire and absent of the body what is left but love.** The spirit should learn love during the human lifetime to better understand eternity in Heaven.

I find it interesting when you consider the growth of Islam with a material afterlife and the growth of the material culture. When people truly value and experience love I feel that Christianity will again flourish.

what is the difference between power of love within spirit nature , and power of love within body nature ?

do you mean that their is a relation between love v.s spirit or body nature ?
do you mean that being in paradise with body nature will make you full of hate instead of love ?
am i understanding you correctly , is that phelosophy you have or is that somekind of faith which exist in the teaching of your bible ?

i’m sorry but i can’t grasp the relation between power of love and nature of human in body or spirit , and what do you mean by "love " while we talking about paradise