Islam and Afterlife

[elwill]

This shows the Christian ideal that God is very much opposed to materialism:
Matthew 4:8-10
(8) Then the devil took him up to a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in their magnificence, (9) and he said to him, “all these I shall give to you, if you will prostrate yourself and worship me.” (10) At this time, Jesus said to him, “Get away, Satan! It is written: the Lord, your God, shall you worship and him alone shall you serve.”

was that the purpose of this verse ? just to show christians that jesus dosn’t like the kingdoms of the world ?

your view make me think , what about if satan offered something else , may be he could agreed to worship satan !
or that jesus refused to worship satan to teach his followers how much he hated the kingdoms of the world insted of teaching them to strive against satan no mattar how much will he offer to you !

 

[elwill]

Is there a side to that showing how mistreatment of women is punishable in hell too? It really is being portrayed as a one way street here. It almost seems as if women are guilty until proven innocent. Is there a deeper reasoning to this, does it have to due with the sins of Adam and Eve? Christianity gave us the most perfect fully human person in the embodiment of Mary, that levels the playing field so to speak in the Christian family.

first of all , i wanna to tell you that islam either gave us the most perfect fully human person among women , guess who ? Marry bint Imran (pbuh)

3-42 Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah hath chosen thee and purified thee- chosen thee above the women of all nations.

66-11-And Allah sets forth, as an example to those who believe the wife of Pharaoh: Behold she said: “O my Lord! Build for me, in nearness to Thee, a mansion in the Garden, and save me from Pharaoh and his doings, and save me from those that do wrong”;
66-12 And Mary the daughter of 'Imran, who guarded her chastity; and We breathed into (her body) of Our spirit; and she testified to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His Revelations, and was one of the devout (servants).

secondly , as an answering for your question

O you who believe, it is not lawful for you to take women as heritage against their will. Nor should you straiten them…." Surah Al-Nisa:19

“…I will not suffer the work of any worker from among you to be lost whether male or female, the one of you being from the other.” Surah Al-Imran:195

"
These are just two examples of many. There are also many beautiful Hadiths of Prophet Muhammad(saas) in regards to women, especially of mothers;

“…the world lies at the feet of mothers.” Prophet Muhammad(saas)

“O’ ye men. Fear Allah and treat your women with kindness.” Prophet Muhammad(saas)

 

[BryanM27]

was that the purpose of this verse ? just to show christians that jesus dosn’t like the kingdoms of the world ?

your view make me think , what about if satan offered something else , may be he could agreed to worship satan !
or that jesus refused to worship satan to teach his followers how much he hated the kingdoms of the world insted of teaching them to strive against satan no mattar how much will he offer to you !

I agree, elwill, that wasn’t a smart choice of verses. But here is another great selection:

“When Jesus heard this, he said to him, ‘There is still one thing lacking. Sell all that you own and distribute the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me.’ But when he heard this, he became sad; for he was very rich. Jesus looked at him and said, ‘How hard is it for those who have wealth to enter the Kingdom of God! Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.’
Those who heard it said, ‘Then who can be saved?’ He replied, ‘What is impossible for mortals is possible for God.’” Luke 18:22-27

It is not impossible for those with many possessions to enter the Kingdom, but they must be willing to give all that they have for the poor.

“So he said to them, ‘You are those who justify yourselves in the sight of others; but God knows your hearts; for what is prized by human beings is an abomination in the sight of God.’” Luke 16:15

“Sell your possessions, and give alms. Make purses for yourselves that do not wear out, and unfailing treasure in heaven, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys. For where your treasure is your heart will be also.” Luke 12:33-34 (I recommend reading Luke 12:13-34 to really get the idea of this quote.)

 

[elwill]

I agree, elwill, that wasn’t a smart choice of verses. But here is another great selection:

“When Jesus heard this, he said to him, ‘There is still one thing lacking. Sell all that you own and distribute the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me.’ But when he heard this, he became sad; for he was very rich. Jesus looked at him and said, ‘How hard is it for those who have wealth to enter the Kingdom of God! Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.’
Those who heard it said, ‘Then who can be saved?’ He replied, ‘What is impossible for mortals is possible for God.’” Luke 18:22-27

It is not impossible for those with many possessions to enter the Kingdom, but they must be willing to give all that they have for the poor.

“So he said to them, ‘You are those who justify yourselves in the sight of others; but God knows your hearts; for what is prized by human beings is an abomination in the sight of God.’” Luke 16:15

“Sell your possessions, and give alms. Make purses for yourselves that do not wear out, and unfailing treasure in heaven, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys. For where your treasure is your heart will be also.” Luke 12:33-34 (I recommend reading Luke 12:13-34 to really get the idea of this quote.)

thank you BryanM27
i appreciate your help . but i didn’t get it yet
these are very good verses , great wisdom from jesus teaching .
we have the same teaching of chrity in islam , but we believe either in materialistic in hearafter . i didn’t find the relation yet

 

[KathleenGee]

There are many, many people on this earth already living out a Muslim heaven with lust, excessive eating, sex dominatrix parties, and alot of money, food, and all sorts of sensual pleasures materialism can provide.

Christ said in Revelations, that He would provide us a new heaven and a new earth, --didn’t mention hell being made new though.

Muslim heaven is already here in many parts of the world, if in fact, it is sensual and carnal and focused on one’s lower nature’s appetites. When people want to serve their own carnal pleasure, there is nothing else to strive for and people remain ignorant, poor and envious of others to the point of fratricide…

Cain vs Abel.

 

[benidict]

There are many, many people on this earth already living out a Muslim heaven with lust, excessive eating, sex dominatrix parties, and alot of money, food, and all sorts of sensual pleasures materialism can provide.

Christ said in Revelations, that He would provide us a new heaven and a new earth, --didn’t mention hell being made new though.

Muslim heaven is already here in many parts of the world, if in fact, it is sensual and carnal and focused on one’s lower nature’s appetites. When people want to serve their own carnal pleasure, there is nothing else to strive for and people remain ignorant, poor and envious of others to the point of fratricide…

Cain vs Abel.

for some reason, this all does not seem to heavenly to me. hope i dont go to the heaven muslims envision. it actually sounds…quite boring. why spend an eternity just serving yourself? what would be the point? that sounds more like hell than heaven, no matter what “pleasures” are there. peace

 

[Davidcameron]

I believe you will never get a straight answer for this one. Common muslim replies include.

1 - Refer to this link (ie a link that answers nothing)
2 - “You do not understand” (as if they do)
3 - “It is not like that at all” (ie. again a non-answer)

The fact remains that islam’s allah offers its martyrs 72 houri virgins each. According to islamic scripture these are not the women that comes from earth after their deaths, but specially MADE for the martyrs’ carnal pleasures.

You must first understand the approach. Make the community devoid of knowledge (tell them to just submit & don’t question the faith - the root cause of why islam means SUBMISSION), make them socially inapt to fit into the world (by teaching them that secular knowledge is not worth pursuing and really a waste of time - Ancient Madrasahs teach primarily only islamic teachings), next in their desperation (due to their ignorance & failure to fit into the civilised world because of these teachings) offer them riches & women for killing non-muslims.

WHO…do you think when put into such desperate conditions would not finally plunge in and take the offer of 72 sexy virgins and riches??? Even if the reality of it is extremely remote if non-existent? PS. You have nothing else to lose when you have already lost your entire life.

When you starve people to desperation and feed them only cannabis then finally offer them great riches & women/pleasure if they follow your instruction to slaughter. You can be very SURE that you will have an army of FUNDAMENTALISTS willing to do ANYTHING for you. This is a similar tactic to that employed by drug lords to manipulate and control weak men & women into lives of crime & prostitution.

 

[KathleenGee]

If I were to be in Muslim heaven, and a man approached me, I would slap him and tell him to go with somebody else. I want peace and goodness and love from Allah. Not from those men who can never get enough of you know what…and I would remember all the hell they put me through.

And then there are the Jews…when Moses was up at Mt Sinai, and received the 10 commandments, he came down and the people were worshipping the golden calf. I have finally come to see that a materialistic or sensual god or reward is really only the creation of a corrupt soul…that idols such as the Golden Calf are truly man made idols that actually serve sensual, materialistic man instead of serving God and His commandments, and loving one’s neighbor as brother, most pleasing to the Lord as He does not need us, nor does Allah.

 

[KathleenGee]

Recalling that Christ did not mention giving people of faith a new hell,

If some old codger approached me in a sensual heaven, I would tell him to go to hell.

 

[BryanM27]

thank you BryanM27
i appreciate your help . but i didn’t get it yet
these are very good verses , great wisdom from jesus teaching .
we have the same teaching of chrity in islam , but we believe either in materialistic in hearafter . i didn’t find the relation yet

elwill the point that Justin and I are going for is that material possessions are things that keep us from a relationship with God. They become false gods that rob our hearts from the love that we should have for each other and for God because we begin to pursue these things (money, women, power) at the expense of others.

So then the question becomes: why would heaven, a place where we are supposed to be in total union with God, be filled with the very materialistic pleasures that pull us away from him in our lives?

 

[Davidcameron]

If I were to be in Muslim heaven, and a man approached me, I would slap him and tell him to go with somebody else. I want peace and goodness and love from Allah. Not from those men who can never get enough of you know what…and I would remember all the hell they put me through.

And then there are the Jews…when Moses was up at Mt Sinai, and received the 10 commandments, he came down and the people were worshipping the golden calf. I have finally come to see that a materialistic or sensual god or reward is really only the creation of a corrupt soul…that idols such as the Golden Calf are truly man made idols that actually serve sensual, materialistic man instead of serving God and His commandments, and loving one’s neighbor as brother, most pleasing to the Lord as He does not need us, nor does Allah.

Kathleen,

God’s name is Yahweh. Read Exodus.
The literal translation of the english word - God, to arabic is ILAH.

The name allah is the name of a pagan stone idol that was worshipped at the Ka’aba together with over 300 other idols. This is a historical FACT. The phrase al-illah ill allah (meaning there is no god but allah) is the well known war cry of the muslims to proclaim that out of all these hundreds of idols, only their entity allah (one of many worshipped at the ancient Ka’aba) is to be worshipped. A very clear evidence that allah is a name of a specific entity and NOT the literal translation for the word - god.

 

[Sam_777]

What would be “legal” lust for a Muslim?

Anything within the Islamic law (marriage, right hand possess).

who are these 72 perpetual virgins? Are they women who have died or something created for the Muslim man’s pleasure?

Yes they are created for the Muslim men…

What’s the purpose of these children you referred to?

Like the children in this earthy life (sons and daughters).

 

[Sam_777]

I for one see that the power of love is far more fulfilling than any bodily desire and absent of the body what is left but love.

It really is being portrayed as a one way street here. It almost seems as if women are guilty until proven innocent.

I started a thread about “Woman in Islam” one year back, check it out…

If I were to be in Muslim heaven, and a man approached me, I would slap him and tell him to go with somebody else.

 

[elwill]

elwill the point that Justin and I are going for is that material possessions are things that keep us from a relationship with God. They become false gods that rob our hearts from the love that we should have for each other and for God because we begin to pursue these things (money, women, power) at the expense of others.

So then the question becomes: why would heaven, a place where we are supposed to be in total union with God, be filled with the very materialistic pleasures that pull us away from him in our lives?

i think that material possessions not always keeps us from relationship with God , it depends on how you used it

as for example if we talking about sex , i can say that to use it within lawfull commandments with your spouse will keep you in your relationship with God , in the other hand , if you used it with strange woman ( adultery) then that will keep you separated from relationship with God

i want to answer your question , but i didn’t understand what do you mean by that **we are supposed to be in total union with God in paradise ** ?

do you think that paradise is a place of work , worship and test ?
actually we believe that it will be place of rewards in the first place

 

[KathleenGee]

Yes, heaven for Muslim women would be with Jesus, not with men who are still not satisfied.

 

[KathleenGee]

So heaven for Muslim men is a perpetual place of seeking sexual fulfillment…

 

[hamba2han]

Those who are somehow repulsed by what is in store in “Muslim Heaven” might be glad to know that in “Muslim Hell”, there will be no sex, no wine or any other kind of worldly pleasure or comfort to be found.

Alas, for some, felicity is a dirty word.

 

[KathleenGee]

What is hell to some is heaven to others.

Heaven: no predators. Muslim women will know God’s love, that is our prayers.

 

[hamba2han]

In “Muslim Hell”, the “predators” will actually be angels i.e. 19 angels in all who will be the guardians of Hell.

And these “predators” will not come to the dwellers of Hell with lust in their eyes, they will instead come to beat and punish their “prey” in accordance with the command of their Lord.

 

[schaick]

i want to answer your question , but i didn’t understand what do you mean by that **we are supposed to be in total union with God in paradise ** ?

Heaven for the Christian means being in the presence of GOD, with GOD. Hell is separation from GOD.

Afterlife
**Christians: ** Christians will be with the Lord in heaven (Phil. 1:21-24), in our resurrected bodies (1 Cor. 15:50-58). Non-Christians will be cast into hell forever (Matt. 25:46).

**Muslim: ** There is an afterlife (75:12) experienced as either an ideal life of Paradise (29:64), for faithful Muslims or Hell for those who are not.

**Heaven (Paradise) The place where God dwells. **
**Christians: **Heaven is the eventual home of the Christians who are saved by God’s grace. It is heaven because it is where God is and Christians will enjoy eternal Fellowship with Him.

Muslims: A place of unimaginable bliss (32:17), a garden with trees and food (13:35;15:45-48) where the desires of faithful Muslims are met, (3:133; 9:38; 13:35; 39:34; 43:71; 53:13-15