Islam and Afterlife

[Davidcameron]

Bosnian, if islam’s allah knows, muhammad would not have been poisoned by the lambchop (that the jewish woman made) and then left to die painfully.

What an argument lol

maybe God wanted him to die in that way? and of course,He wanted him to die like that

The ones laughing is us bosnian.

If you have not realised yet, in the Bible, with the exception of Jesus who was prophesied to WILLINGLY suffer for us, NONE of the great prophets died painfully.

.

 

[BryanM27]

Christians believe in trinity,they pray to a lot of saints etc…its very strange to islam,we called it shirk(polytheism).I know you will say its not but the hindus claim the same thing

Just wanted to clear some things up for EVERYONE here, not just Bosnian…

First of all the Trinitarian belief system. The most simple way I can explain this as a monotheistic belief is to compare it to the ancient Greek and Roman theatres. In those theatres there would be one actor portraying multiple characters. He would wear a different mask for each character.

The Trinitarian belief system is similar. Picture God as the actor, with Father, Son and Holy Spirit as the different masks. Oversimplified, I know, but it should give outsiders the basic idea of our beliefs as Christians.

Secondly, praying to Saints. To say that Catholics pray “to” Saints is slightly erroneous. We ask them to pray for us. Consider the Saints, and for that matter Mary, as members of our church community. We are telling them we have a problem and are asking for their prayers. Again, oversimplified, but once again this is not meant to describe Catholicism to Catholics.

Now I realize that the counter argument for this is probably going to be something along the lines of “those in the afterlife are not concerned with earthly affairs,” or, “why do you have to go through Mary and the Saints?” So be it. That’s another discussion for another time.

 

[seraphime2008]

Just wanted to clear some things up for EVERYONE here, not just Bosnian…

First of all the Trinitarian belief system. The most simple way I can explain this as a monotheistic belief is to compare it to the ancient Greek and Roman theatres. In those theatres there would be one actor portraying multiple characters. He would wear a different mask for each character.

The Trinitarian belief system is similar. Picture God as the actor, with Father, Son and Holy Spirit as the different masks. Oversimplified, I know, but it should give outsiders the basic idea of our beliefs as Christians.

Secondly, praying to Saints. To say that Catholics pray “to” Saints is slightly erroneous. We ask them to pray for us. Consider the Saints, and for that matter Mary, as members of our church community. We are telling them we have a problem and are asking for their prayers. Again, oversimplified, but once again this is not meant to describe Catholicism to Catholics.

Now I realize that the counter argument for this is probably going to be something along the lines of “those in the afterlife are not concerned with earthly affairs,” or, “why do you have to go through Mary and the Saints?” So be it. That’s another discussion for another time.

In Catholicism, we believe that we can ask Mary or any Saints of the Holy Communion to intercede for us, ask them to pray for us, 'cos we believe that we have a communion of members of church that is not separated by death, but remember in Islam, those souls in Islamic heaven are too busy to satisfy their desires they won’t give a damn whether there are lost souls needed help! …

 

[Justin1982]

Round 3 and still no reply:

I have an interesting question, are there apparitions for the people of the Islamic faith? There are many claimed by Christians but all are investigated by Vatican scientist and if there is no possible scientific explanation for the apparition then it is officially recognized by the Church, though not deemed intrinsic to the faith. Probably one of the most popular is the vision of Mary at Fatima in Portugal (1917). Where 3 children were visited by Mary while sheperding in the hills near their house. It is said that Mary gave them 3 secrets. One was a vision of hell, the next was about the end of WWI and the beginning of WWII and the third was about the attempted assassination of JPII. As for the children, 2 did not survive their childhood and the third, a girl, became a Catholic nun. Part of the reason why I ask is because it is reported that Mary had told the children, “More souls go to Hell because of sins of the flesh than for any other reason.” I welcome your thoughts.

 

[bosnian_muslim]

Why would Allah condemn you on earth for lust, drunkeness, and homosexuality but allow this in Muslim heaven?

God doesnt condemn anything unless it is bad for you,alcohol is bad for your body so its haram,in the next life God will make it good for the body so it will be allowed

God **doesnt **condemn us for lust,in the hadiths the prophet said-when you have sex with your spouse you are doing a good deed.celibacy is a sin

you will just have to understand that we in islam dont have the same view as you guys about those kind of things.

 

[bosnian_muslim]

If you have not realised yet, in the Bible, with the exception of Jesus who was prophesied to WILLINGLY suffer for us, NONE of the great prophets died painfully.

But thats the Bible,to us it is as important as the buddhist Tipitaka=not at all

 

[bosnian_muslim]

Just wanted to clear some things up for EVERYONE here, not just Bosnian…

First of all the Trinitarian belief system. The most simple way I can explain this as a monotheistic belief is to compare it to the ancient Greek and Roman theatres. In those theatres there would be one actor portraying multiple characters. He would wear a different mask for each character.

The Trinitarian belief system is similar. Picture God as the actor, with Father, Son and Holy Spirit as the different masks. Oversimplified, I know, but it should give outsiders the basic idea of our beliefs as Christians.

Secondly, praying to Saints. To say that Catholics pray “to” Saints is slightly erroneous. We ask them to pray for us. Consider the Saints, and for that matter Mary, as members of our church community. We are telling them we have a problem and are asking for their prayers. Again, oversimplified, but once again this is not meant to describe Catholicism to Catholics.

Now I realize that the counter argument for this is probably going to be something along the lines of “those in the afterlife are not concerned with earthly affairs,” or, “why do you have to go through Mary and the Saints?” So be it. That’s another discussion for another time.

My Hindu friend explained to me in the same way his religion.He said they dont believe in many gods,they believe in one god just like islam,his God just shows him self in different ways just

that didnt make me think hindus were monotheist

Secondly, praying to Saints. To say that Catholics pray “to” Saints is slightly erroneous. We ask them to pray for us. Consider the Saints, and for that matter Mary, as members of our church community. We are telling them we have a problem and are asking for their prayers. Again, oversimplified, but once again this is not meant to describe Catholicism to Catholics.

Ok,so you say God listens more to the saints then to a normal human beeing?

 

[InSearchofGrace]

Round 3 and still no reply:

I have an interesting question, are there apparitions for the people of the Islamic faith? There are many claimed by Christians but all are investigated by Vatican scientist and if there is no possible scientific explanation for the apparition then it is officially recognized by the Church, though not deemed intrinsic to the faith. Probably one of the most popular is the vision of Mary at Fatima in Portugal (1917). Where 3 children were visited by Mary while sheperding in the hills near their house. It is said that Mary gave them 3 secrets. One was a vision of hell, the next was about the end of WWI and the beginning of WWII and the third was about the attempted assassination of JPII. As for the children, 2 did not survive their childhood and the third, a girl, became a Catholic nun. Part of the reason why I ask is because it is reported that Mary had told the children, “More souls go to Hell because of sins of the flesh than for any other reason.” I welcome your thoughts.

Justin,

I have not heard of any apparition (apparitions are associated with our Blessed Virgin Mary) to people of Islamic faith only, e.g., Muslim children like the children of Fatima, Portugal, to whom the BVM appeared in 1917.

Because of my interest in Marian apparitions, I check this site of approved apparitions now and then. Fatima and Lourdes are included, of course, but Medjugorie is interestingly not (yet) included.

Anyway, there have been four approved Marian apparition sites in Egypt associated with the Coptic church / faithful there. The apparitions in Zeitun, at St. Mark’s Coptic Church, called Our Lady of the Light, were many for a span of three years. Our Lady reportedly appeared hovering above Saint Mark’s Coptic Church from April 1968 to 1971. She appeared on many occasions especially at night, and sometimes she was accompanied by white doves. The apparitions attracted large crowds up to 250,000 people including Christians, Jews, and Moslems. The apparitions were photographed, filmed and broadcast on Egyptian TV. An estimated 40 million people witnessed the events.

As for the other three apparition sites in Egypt, Coptic churches in Shoubra, Assiut, and Warraq el-Hadar, the summaries make no mention of Moslems witnessing them. That does not mean there was no Moslem in the crowd.

miraclehunter.com/marian_apparitions/approved_apparitions/index.html#zeitun

Below is a video link on the Zeitun apparition. According to the narration, there was no message from Our Lady, but it is not necessary for her to speak directly to chosen ones during any apparition. She communicated with her silent presence and appearance to religious and non-religious people alike.

youtube.com/watch?v=ZCKmsqzRtGE

I hope the above information helps.

 

[bosnian_muslim]

but Medjugorie is interestingly not (yet) included.

and it shouldnt be,i live in Bosnia and i know how the villagers of Medjugorje use all that,its just a lie

plus,islam doesnt accept the so called apparitions ,we believe thats from satan…so your virgin mary in fatima or wherever is just from satan…there have been same kinds of “miracles” in hinduism(in india it happens all the time)

but there have been miracles in islam,like a few years ago when a girl got cured from cancer after praying to God,then she dreamed the prophet Muhammed who told her she is free from cancer.But we dont pay much attention to theese things since we dont need those kind of prooves to believe

 

[BryanM27]

My Hindu friend explained to me in the same way his religion.He said they dont believe in many gods,they believe in one god just like islam,his God just shows him self in different ways just

that didnt make me think hindus were monotheist

That’s the first time I’ve ever heard of Hindu in that sense. I’ve always heard of many gods, and yes some of them have different forms, but that there are indeed many of them. You’re friend, being Hindu, should know better than I. But what I have been taught is that Hindu’s only pray to one or two gods, but which god they pray to depends on where they are and what their communities are like.

Ok,so you say God listens more to the saints then to a normal human beeing?

Not that he listens MORE, but that they are closer to Him than we are by virtue of the fact that they are in Heaven and walk with Him. Because these people walk with God, and are a part of our community, we ask them to help bring our prayers before God just as if we were to ask a friend hear on earth to pray for us. There is no such thing as too much prayer.

 

[elwill]

Secondly, praying to Saints. To say that Catholics pray “to” Saints is slightly erroneous. We ask them to pray for us. Consider the Saints, and for that matter Mary, as members of our church community. We are telling them we have a problem and are asking for their prayers. Again, oversimplified, but once again this is not meant to describe Catholicism to Catholics.

okey , what can you say about the idols and images which be made to them by churchs and offcourse the idols which be made to mary

offcourse you read those verses before

Exodus 20:4
“You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.”

Leviticus 26:1
" 'Do not make idols or set up an image or a sacred stone for yourselves, and do not place a carved stone in your land to bow down before it. I am the LORD your God.

Isaiah 41:29
See, they are all false! Their deeds amount to nothing; their images are but wind and confusion.

 

[bosnian_muslim]

okey , what can you say about the idols and images which be made to them by churchs and offcourse the idols which be made to mary

offcourse you read those verses before

Exodus 20:4
“You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.”

Leviticus 26:1
" 'Do not make idols or set up an image or a sacred stone for yourselves, and do not place a carved stone in your land to bow down before it. I am the LORD your God.

Isaiah 41:29
See, they are all false! Their deeds amount to nothing; their images are but wind and confusion.

They have the prooves in their own book,but still they dont want to see

 

[benidict]

They have the prooves in their own book,but still they dont want to see

actually my friend just the opposite is true. the ark of the covenant does represent Mary. it was so holy only the priest could touch it. anyone else would die if they did. the ark of the covenant contained the staff of aaron, the tablets of the law, and the manna that was fed to the israelites. Blessed Mary carried within herself, our high priest, the giver of the law, and the Bread of Life. also the ark was carried into the jordan, when the israelites crossed into the promised land. they all in a sense had to go thru Mary to get there. and i have seen pictures representing Mohammed in Muslim households. our representations of Mary and the saints are like pictures of our families. we do not believe God is the God of the dead, but of the living. i do not believe making images of those we love. ie photos etc. violates the commandment against idolotry in the least. its kind of funny really. the greates sin a Catholic seems to be able to commit… is in our art. peace

 

[bosnian_muslim]

and i have seen pictures representing Mohammed in Muslim households

hmm thats weird,ok it may be so in some households,but islam doesnt allow it

 

[KathleenGee]

Justin, post 50.

 

[KathleenGee]

After being in circular discussions with Muslims who are experts on Christianity, I am rather pondering how much I even want to get involved here.

I believe Isa is the Anti-Christ who will indeed be slaughtering all the Christians with crosses, that is including me. So I do not believe Isa is from God but Satan’s man.

Muslims do not believe in apparitions, except when Mohammed thought the moon was splitting apart and with his prayers, it came back together. We call it a lunar eclipse. What is the message.

Atleast the approved Marian apparitions call us to prayer and conversion. We get something spiritually from her that is drawing us back to God.

A bad graven image is like that of the Jews’ Golden Calf. When Moses was at Mt Sinai, the Jews melted their gold and made the calf…the symbol of their fleshly desires, no different that what the Muslims expect to consume once in heaven…those circles again.

The innermost room of the Temple was the sanctuary. The place of God’s presence was empty space. But next to Him were two cherubs, ‘graven images’ facing Him on each side.

The statues used in our churches are art forms. They are concretizing our beliefs. Anybody who thinks we pray to statues is very biased and not thinking but reacting …and I think, in many times competition that they are already better and more holy.

The drinking of wine is good for digestion and that is in the Bible. God created all things good and His creative forces work through man. On the first page of Genesis, God gives man the grace to subdue the wild and rule over it…to make use of all that we have been given — for livelihood, goodness, and praise of the Lord for His creation. Wine is a work of human hands. Jesus drank wine. The ancient prophets drank wine.

The Jewish people are the Chosen People, who all drank wine, that were called to bring forth the Messiah. And it was prophesized that His own people would reject Him, but this rejection is a grace because it worked to bring the Gentiles, the non-Jews into salvation.

The Muslims take from the Bible and Christianity. They do not understand it, misuse it for re-interpretation, all for the flesh and domination. For me, this is not spiritual or holy, but making politics and flesh the be - all when the Christians know this is not right. The muslims spend too much time putting Christians down and not understanding or accepting Jesus Christ because Jesus is against fighting, killing, polygamy, fornication, adultery, lying. His kingdom is not of this world. I think it will be destroyed by Islamic fighters…

I am not drawn to Medgugorje, but I have heard of so many people turning to God in great conversions. My girlfriend’s husband doesn’t go to church. They are Croatian Americans. They went to visit relatives. Then they went to Medgugorje. As soon as they got on site, her husband broke down and started crying, turning his life to God. He does not do weird things or bad things since he got home, but he is drawing now closer to God…so there must be truth there.

There is a book out called, ‘Salvation is from the Jews’, by Roy Shoeman. He is a Hebrew Catholics, speaks of the 6 constructs of Naziism and Islam’s place in the work of preparing for the return of Jesus Christ. I believe he also has his webpage.

And you can learn more about Jews coming to Catholicism, and how they are now seeing how many precursors there are in the Old Testament that is now fulfilled in the Catholic Church. They are my friends. www.hebrewcatholic.org.

 

[Justin1982]

They have the prooves in their own book,but still they dont want to see

I think you confuse icon and idol. An icon is merely a reminder of those who were once living on earth who we know are now in Heaven. Those bowing or praying to those icons are praying for the intercession of that person the icon represents, more of a petition to God himself through that person who is known to be in Heaven. Catholics praying to Mary are praying for Mary to intercede or petition for them to God. Who better to know Jesus than His mother.

 

[KathleenGee]

Good point, Justin…

And True Christianity is about people being reconciled with God through His Son Jesus Christ, and becoming as brothers and sisters. The Old Testament says there is nothing more pleasing to God than we looking at each other as brothers and sisters.

This is fulfilled in Jesus Christ through Mary. Mary is the one who makes our faith a family…not an arrogant, superior minded, staking war machine that enslaves everyone to Dhimmi.

In Bosnia, during the time of Tito, it was the Catholics who went to church and faced the reality that doing so, they would not be promoted to better jobs. It was the Serbs and Muslims who would not publicly practice their faiths but got the money and jobs.

 

[bosnian_muslim]

In Bosnia, during the time of Tito, it was the Catholics who went to church and faced the reality that doing so, they would not be promoted to better jobs. It was the Serbs and Muslims who would not publicly practice their faiths but got the money and jobs

hahah that was the funniest thing i heard

 

[KathleenGee]

A Serb shared that with me…who lived in those times, an older woman.

You are a young man?..posing as a woman?