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bosnian_muslim
Guest
we allready discussed that in this thread,what is bad and forbidden in this life doesnt need to be so in the next(wine is one example)
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elwill
Guest
not right
i will show you why wine is prohibited in our life and not prohibited in paradise
firstly , why wine prohibited in the earth
2-219 They ask you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) concerning alcoholic drink and gambling. Say: “In them is a great sin, and (some) benefit for men,** but the sin of them is greater than their benefit.”** And they ask you what they ought to spend. Say: “That which is beyond your needs.” Thus Allah makes clear to you His Laws in order that you may give thought."
alcohol which exist in earth is harmfull
5-91 Shaitan (Satan) wants only to excite enmity and hatred between you with intoxicants (alcoholic drinks) and gambling, and hinder you from the remembrance of Allah and from As-Salat (the prayer). So, will you not then abstain?
satan not exist in paradise but he exist in earth
secondly
53-23 There they shall pass from hand to hand a (wine) cup, free from any Laghw (dirty, false, evil vain talk between them), and free from sin .
alcohol is prohibted in earth not beacuse it’s name is alcohol
alcohol is prohibited because the harm which it cause to us
alcohol is lawfull in paradise because thiere is no harm from anykind upon us in paradise , and alcohol in paradise is differ thatn that in the earth
i will show you why wine is prohibited in our life and not prohibited in paradise
firstly , why wine prohibited in the earth
2-219 They ask you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) concerning alcoholic drink and gambling. Say: “In them is a great sin, and (some) benefit for men,** but the sin of them is greater than their benefit.”** And they ask you what they ought to spend. Say: “That which is beyond your needs.” Thus Allah makes clear to you His Laws in order that you may give thought."
alcohol which exist in earth is harmfull
5-91 Shaitan (Satan) wants only to excite enmity and hatred between you with intoxicants (alcoholic drinks) and gambling, and hinder you from the remembrance of Allah and from As-Salat (the prayer). So, will you not then abstain?
satan not exist in paradise but he exist in earth
secondly
53-23 There they shall pass from hand to hand a (wine) cup, free from any Laghw (dirty, false, evil vain talk between them), and free from sin .
alcohol is prohibted in earth not beacuse it’s name is alcohol
alcohol is prohibited because the harm which it cause to us
alcohol is lawfull in paradise because thiere is no harm from anykind upon us in paradise , and alcohol in paradise is differ thatn that in the earth
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elwill
Guest
the problem is your misunderstanding for the meaning of handiwork
what it means to you that alcohol is a handiwork of satan ? is that mean that satan created it ?
offcourse not , God who created the alcohol in this earth and the same God created alcohol in paradise
the verse means that satan is the one who accustom people to drink alcohol because the harm which it cause to mind and will make it easy for sin and hatred and evil talks to be aroused
alcohol in paradise cause no harm nor evil talks or hatred
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elwill
Guest
it was very great to argue with you BryanM27No, what I meant is that regarding that one specific phrase from your definition the Catholic Church has a different definition of idolatry born from the combination of Scripture and Tradition, and that is the definition that I was using in my argument.
I understand that this is as difficult for you as a non-Christian to understand as it is for me as a Christian to understand Islam. That is one of many reasons we have this open discussions
i really like you
and i hope to find more discussions wiith you in the future
God bless you and give you peace in your heart
peace
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FaithJoy
Guest
What is the use of wine but to give void of thought? Is that what God and heaven is all about? God and heaven is ALL understanding and reason. Does not alcohol give the opposite effect? Is not alcohol “tied” to unreason? Is God unreasonable thought? I think not. Is there a need for alcohol in heaven? God sees no benefit to alcohol in heaven.
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BryanM27
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And you as well. As I said in a previous post I am always willing to discuss my faith with anyone who will share in a respectful debate as you have.it was very great to argue with you BryanM27
i really like you
and i hope to find more discussions wiith you in the future
God bless you and give you peace in your heart
peace
God bless you!
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FaithJoy
Guest
I agree, drunkedness is the key here.Use of alcohol the way Jesus did (no drunkedness) is the Christian way.
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aicirt
Guest
Dear Muslim sister…believe me…we DO understand that you in Islam don’t have the same view as us about “those kind of things.” :ehh:
So one more time, tell me, as a Muslim woman what do you expect will be your reward in Muslim heaven? All we’ve heard is the Muslim men getting the 72 virgins. I suppose you will have to remain with your husband. Does this mean you get to watch him and the 72 women, drinking etc.??? Apparently, celibacy in Muslim heaven is not going to be a sin for him. What sex will you be having?? Are Muslim women happy when they hear their husbands are anxious to get to heaven to fill their lusts with others???
Allah is telling you to raise your sons to go out and kill so they can get to Muslim heaven for all of the above. DO YOU KNOW that we do not raise our sons to go out and kill YOU??? Killing is a sin. We’re told that Muslims believe they too are part of the Old Testament. That means you believe in the 10 Commandments. What part of Thou Shalt Not Kill do you not understand???
Muslim women have no power in most of the Islam world. The women in Iran are no longer allowed to practice some professions as they’ll have to mix with men. You are made to cover yourselves totally which was never even a requirement in your Qu’ran. You can’t divorce but your husbands can just say “I divorce you” three times and you are out the door. Your daughters are put into marriages as children, not in all cases but there are too many not to notice you exist in the 10 century. Some women are denied a doctor and therefore health care because he might look at her vagina or breasts. Who would deny their wife or daughter or mother care? Not Christians. Not Jews, Not Buddhists. Ah…Muslims.
What is it that you get from Islam???
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aicirt
Guest
For Christians…there will be NO Alcohol in our heaven. And none of us ever even think we’ll be deprived even if they drink on this earth. It is beyond my comprehension that this is what Muslims think will make them happy.
And your remark about gambling…please…You have Saudi princes who have a multi-million dollar horse racing empire. Do you really think those animals aren’t used in racing where gambling occurs?? Should we expect another explanation begining with “You don’t understand”?
Islam is very contradictory.
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aicirt
Guest
Here on earth, Muslims are prohibited from drinking alcohol because it obviously causes harm, evil talks, and hatred. Yet without alcohol you hate. How peaceful is the non drinking Wahhabi in Saudi?
In the home, how loving is a family towards a girl/woman who because of a deformity or unattractiveness doesn’t marry? How is she treated?
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bosnian_muslim
Guest
You dont have to be Einstein to understand that the actions of muslims are not always according to islam,just like the actions of christians are not according to christianity.You dont judge the religion for the actions of some people that claim to follow that religion
Theese kind of “arguments” i only hear from Americans for some reason
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schaick
Guest
You might enjoy reading about the Dualism of Islam
*Our first clue about the dualism is in the Koran, which is actually two books, the Koran of Mecca (early) and the Koran of Medina (later). The insight into the logic of the Koran comes from the large numbers of contradictions in it. On the surface, Islam resolves these contradictions by resorting to “abrogation”. This means that the verse written later supersedes the earlier verse. But in fact, since the Koran is considered by Muslims to be the perfect word of Allah, both verses are sacred and true. The later verse is “better,” but the earlier verse cannot be wrong since Allah is perfect. This is the foundation of dualism. Both verses are “right.” Both sides of the contradiction are true in dualistic logic. The circumstances govern which verse is used. … On the basis of the Golden Rule–the equality of human beings–we have created democracy, ended slavery and treat women and men as political equals. So the Golden Rule is a unitary ethic. All people are to be treated the same. All religions have some version of the Golden Rule except Islam.
FP: So how is Islam different in this context?
Warner: The term “human being” has no meaning inside of Islam. There is no such thing as humanity, only the duality of the believer and unbeliever. Look at the ethical statements found in the Hadith. A Muslim should not lie, cheat, kill or steal from other Muslims. But a Muslim may lie, deceive or kill an unbeliever if it advances Islam.
There is no such thing as a universal statement of ethics in Islam. Muslims are to be treated one way and unbelievers another way. The closest Islam comes to a universal statement of ethics is that the entire world must submit to Islam. After Mohammed became a prophet, he never treated an unbeliever the same as a Muslim. Islam denies the truth of the Golden Rule.
Bill Warner*
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StevieD
Guest
I am not American but it seems to me that the expectation that the Saudi royal family (for instance) who claim to be the guardians of the sacred Muslim sites should be seen to be setting an example as devout Muslims is entirely reasonable. I am suprised that the Muslim world, that is so sensitive and unforgiving to non-Muslims who offend it, allows this situation to continue and to appear to ignore it (perhaps they are afraid of being banned from Mecca or being arrested if they venture there, if they are seen to disapprove).You dont have to be Einstein to understand that the actions of muslims are not always according to islam,just like the actions of christians are not according to christianity.You dont judge the religion for the actions of some people that claim to follow that religion
Theese kind of “arguments” i only hear from Americans for some reason
As Islam regards heaven as a heightened sensual experience rather than an infinitely heightened spiritual life, perhaps we should not be suprised.
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bosnian_muslim
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The royal family has no religious role whatsover…its only political,Mecca and Medina just happen to be under their rule.Just like Berlusconi is the president of Italy,and Vatican is in Italy
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elwill
Guest
exactly as our expectations for priests of catholic church to not molest childrens
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Loboto-Me
Guest
At least our catholic priests are truly going against the Catholic faith if they do molest, unlike some religions who promote the molestations.
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StevieD
Guest
But we are prepared to readily admit that these people committed horrible acts and many of them are now imprisoned, laicised and otherwise dealt with.exactly as our expectations for priests of catholic church to not molest childrens
The question was why do Muslims ignore the grossly unIslamic behaviour of the guardians of the holy places that has being going on for decades without reproof.
This tendency to defend the inconsistencies of YOUR religion solely by attacking some aspect of another is something I have become used to but is still irritating.
You will endorse the killing of a cartoonist but tolerate anything from the rich and powerful within your own ranks.
(I need hardly remind you of mahomet’s behaviour towards Aisha, today he would certainly be serving a sentence alongside former Catholic priests for his tendencies)
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bosnian_muslim
Guest
(Edited)
You think the muslims do not talk about the royal family? the prisons of saudi arabia are full of islamic preachers that condemn the royal family.Outside of Saudia you will maybe find 5% of muslims who like the king-He is all but popular.He is not a religious figure either,during the ottomans it was their job to protect the holy cities,now its the saudians,lets hope one day it becomes turkish again,since they knew how to do it the best way
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StevieD
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Well now you are at least attempting to answer the question. Thanks.Well,why dont you deal with the pope then? the world talks about how he protected and protects the pedophiles
You’re just proving my point. We are talking about Islam. If you want an answer to that question, there are several other threads dealing with it.
You think the muslims do not talk about the royal family? the prisons of saudi arabia are full of islamic preachers that condemn the royal family.Outside of Saudia you will maybe find 5% of muslims who like the king-He is all but popular.He is not a religious figure either,during the ottomans it was their job to protect the holy cities,now its the saudians,lets hope one day it becomes turkish again,since they knew how to do it the best way
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BryanM27
Guest
First of all, your comment about the Pope is disrespectful and in violation of forum rules.Well,why dont you deal with the pope then? the world talks about how he protected and protects the pedophiles
You think the muslims do not talk about the royal family? the prisons of saudi arabia are full of islamic preachers that condemn the royal family.Outside of Saudia you will maybe find 5% of muslims who like the king-He is all but popular.He is not a religious figure either,during the ottomans it was their job to protect the holy cities,now its the saudians,lets hope one day it becomes turkish again,since they knew how to do it the best way
Secondly, people are getting the wrong idea about the Saudi royal family. There is a reason they’re allowed to get away with treating their people in the horrible way they do. That reason is because of our dependence on oil in the west. I laughed when I watched the movie “The Kingdom” when Jason Bateman said answered the question “who pays for all this?” with “Exxon, BP, Shell…” I laughed because it’s true.
The reality is that they will remain in power and be allowed to get away with their crimes against humanity until someone with morals can gain enough power to challenge their authority, and that person has to be willing to deal with the west to prevent them from siding with the Royal Family to protect their oil reserves.
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