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TheSufi
Guest
That is not how I would translate that verse. That is how I would translated that “word.” Two different things.
I am currently researching this verse and the possible ways to translate it. Peace.
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I am currently researching this verse and the possible ways to translate it. Peace.
K
kovacs725
Guest
Pardon me again. But this one verse is so not enough to disprove Christianity.
I list a few translations here.
- God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill? - New International
- God is not like people. He tells no lies. He is not like humans. He doesn’t change his mind. When he says something, he does it. When he makes a promise, he keeps it. -God’s word translation
The book of Isaiah has many places where God gave us promises about Jesus. Did you know that this book was written over 400 years BEFORE Jesus was born! Only God could keep a promise like that! Read the verse in such context.
And while here on Earth Jesus acted godly many times. He has done miracles only God could. For example healing lepers. It was a big deal at that time. He could cast out mute deamons. These both are the miracles only the Messiah could do. While would God let this man perform such miracles when He is not holy and He tells lies about who He is.
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shambles
Guest
Allah is the essence of all God
s names. There are 3000. 1000 known only to God. 1000 known to Gods Angels. 1000 known to Mankind through out the times.124000 Prophets. 4 Main Prophets, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, The Seal. 104 Holy books. 4 Main, Torah, Psalms, Gospel, Quran. Before the Seal, each previous Prophet was for a certain time and people. Quran, for all Mankind, the confirmation of what was sent before it and the completion and perfection of your faith. Infiltrations brought out. Muhammad is the Last Messenger and the Seal of all Prophets, sent for Mankind, and to Whom all previous Prophets have sworn allegiance. Peace and blessings of Allah be upon then All.
Quran… The Table Spread… In the name of Allah Most Beneficient, Most Merciful…
This day are (all) good things made lawful for you. The food of those who have received the Scripture is lawful for you, and your food is lawful for them. And so are the virtuous women of the believers and the virtuous women of those who received the Scripture before you (lawful for you) when you give them their marriage portions and live with them in honor, not in fornication, nor taking them as secret concubines. Whoso denies the faith, his work is vain and he will be among the losers in the Hereafter.
O people of the Scripture! Now has Our messenger come unto you, expounding unto you much of that which you used to hide in the Scripture, and forgiving much. Now has come unto you light from Allah and a plain Scripture.
O people of the Scripture! Now has Our messenger come unto you to make things plain after an interval (of cessation) of the messengers, lest you should say: There came not unto us a messenger of cheer nor any warner. Now has a messenger of cheer and a warner come unto you. Allah is Able to do all things.
Quran…The Children of Israel…
We gave unto Moses {Musa} the Scripture, and We appointed it a guidance for the Children of Israel, saying: Choose no guardian beside Me.
(They were) the seed of those whom We carried (in the ship) along with Noah. Lo! he was a grateful slave.
And We decreed for the Children of Israel in the scripture: You verily will work corruption in the earth twice, and you will become great tyrants.
Quran… The Family of Imran…
He has revealed unto you (Muhammad) the Scripture with truth, confirming that which was (revealed) before it, even as He revealed the Torah and the Gospel
And if they argue with you, (O Muhammad), say: I have surrendered my purpose to Allah and (so have) those who follow me. And say unto those who have received the Scripture and those who read not: Have you (too) surrendered? If they surrender, then truly they are rightly guided, and if they turn away, then it is your duty only to convey the message (unto them). Allah is Seer of (His) bondmen.
Quran…Mary…
(It was said unto him): O Zachariah! Lo! We bring you tidings of a son whose name is John; We have given the same name to none before (him).
(And it was said unto his son): O John! Hold the Scripture. And We gave him wisdom when a child.
And make mention of Mary in the Scripture, when she had withdrawn from her people to a chamber looking East,
And had chosen seclusion from them. Then We sent unto her Our spirit and it assumed for her the likeness of a perfect man.
She said: Lo! I seek refuge in the Beneficent One from you, if you are God fearing.
19. He said: I am only a messenger of your Lord, that I may bestow on you a faultless son.
She said: How can I have a son when no mortal has touched me, neither have I been unchaste!
21. He said: So (it will be). Your Lord says: It is easy for Me. And (it will be) that We may make of him a revelation for mankind and a mercy from Us, and it is a thing ordained.
And she conceived him, and she withdrew with him to a place.
23. And the pangs of childbirth drove her unto the trunk of the palm tree. She said: Oh, would that I had died ere this and had become a thing of naught, forgotten!
24. Then (one) cried unto her from below her, saying: Grieve not! Your Lord has placed a rivulet beneath you,And shake the trunk of the palm tree toward you, you will cause ripe dates to fall upon you.
26. So eat and drink and be consoled. And if you meet any mortal, say: Lo! I have vowed a fast unto the Beneficent, and may not speak this day to any mortal.
27. Then she brought him to her own folk, carrying him. They said: O Mary! You have come with an amazing thing.Oh sister of Aaron! Your father was not a wicked man nor was your mother a harlot.
29. Then she pointed to him. They said How can we talk to one who is in the cradle, a young boy?
30. He spoke: Lo! I am the slave of Allah. He has given me the Scripture and has appointed me a Prophet,And has made me blessed wheresoever I may be, and has enjoined upon me prayer and almsgiving so long as I remain alive,
32. And (has made me) dutiful toward her who bore me, and has not made me arrogant, unblest.
33. Peace on me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive!
34. Such was Jesus, son of Mary: (this is) a statement of the truth concerning which they doubt.It befitts not (the Majesty of) Allah that He should take unto Himself a son. Glory be to Him! When He decrees a thing, He says unto it only: Be! and it is.
36. And lo! Allah is my Lord and your Lord. So serve Him. That is the right path.
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Celtic_Maiden
Guest
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MartinJordan
Guest
:yup:
MJ
MJ
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bill99
Guest
I could never see how Muslims worship the same god as we do because the god Allah did not come from the book of genesis.
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Minenedanielito
Guest
There’s only one God.
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nmgauss
Guest
For Muslims and Jews there is truly a single God. But in Christianity, if we are to believe St. John, Jesus is God. So is the Holy Spirit. So is the Father. I don’t see the similarity between the Jewish and Muslim God on the one hand and the multiple entities identified as God for Christians.
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Contarini
Guest
The Trinity is not “multiple entities.”
Christians, like Muslims, believe that Allah is exalted and glorified beyond our capacity to understand. Frankly, it seems to me that we take this principle more seriously than Muslims do. God’s oneness is not like “oneness” among created things.
Edwin
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nmgauss
Guest
If one asks if Jesus is God, the Christian will say yes, but the Muslim will say no. How can one say that the Christians and Muslims worship the same God?
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Contarini
Guest
Because the question pertains to the relationship between the human being Jesus and the one eternal God we both worship.
From my perspective, the anthropomorphism of many Muslims is the main reason to have some doubts about whether they worship the same God we do. But the OT authors probably were just as anthropomorphic, if not more so. So I don’t think it’s sufficient.
Edwin
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nmgauss
Guest
Anthropomorphism has been avoided historically in Islam. God does not appear and does not talk personally with any human. This was the position of the Mutazilites.
Here is an excerpt from the article "Anthropomorphism " that I found on Wikipedia:
Some religions, scholars, and philosophers objected to anthropomorphic deities. The Greek philosopher Xenophanes (570–480 BC) said that “the greatest god” resembles man “neither in form nor in mind”.[9] Both Judaism and Islam reject an anthropomorphic deity, believing that God is beyond human comprehension. Judaism’s rejection of an anthropomorphic deity grew during the Hasmonean period (circa 300 BC), when Jewish belief incorporated some Greek philosophy.[1] Judaism’s rejection grew further after the Islamic Golden Age in the tenth century, which Maimonides codified in the twelfth century, in his 13 principles of Jewish faith.
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Contarini
Guest
Well, the imam and one of the other Muslims at a local mosque told me that, in their terms, “God is not a ghost” and has a physical body–just not one like ours. I suppose perhaps “anthropomorphism” is not the best term for this.
And I thought the Mutazilites “lost”?
I’m still trying to get my head around the Islamic position on this one, actually–as on many other issues.
Edwin
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concretecamper
Guest
God is Father and Redeemer. If you can admit that…maybe then we do worship the same God
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concretecamper
Guest
Many do not agree
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Jeanne1184
Guest
How is there a Redeemer without Christ? And how does one Know Christ except by the Holy Spirit? (1 Cor 12:3)
If the Muslim (or other non-Christian religion) God is represented in the NT, then it would be Strong’s #G-2888, the Kosmocrator / Pantokrator.
There wouldn’t be any point in being told in the NT that the powers and principalities of this world are false - if there wasn’t at least one false God being followed who is not the Father of Christ, the True God.
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concretecamper
Guest
I think you missed my point.
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nmgauss
Guest
The attitude toward Allah, and the proper way to continue Muhammed’s work in Islam varies among the various sects.
The main Islamic following, formed by the Sunnites, constitutes the vast majority of the Islamic community. It has a consensus type of attitude to accommodate minor differences of opinion and to affirm the consensus of the community in doctrinal matters.
The Sunnite tradition developed in reaction to early schismatic movements, such as the Kharajites, Mutazilites, and Shiites. The Sunnites’ inclusive definition of a Muslim, for instance, was conceived in reaction to the narrow extremism of the Kharijites, who emphasized God’s power, will, and determination of human fate, which in turn developed in reaction to the Mutazilite insistence on the absolute freedom of the human will.
The Sunnite political doctrines emerged mainly in the struggle against the legitimism (right to rule by inheritance) espoused by the Shiites. The Shiites developed a doctrine of the infallibility, sinlessness, and divine right to authority of the descendents of the fourth caliph, Ali ibn Abu Talib, who’s wife, Fatima, was a direct descendent of Muhammed. They maintained that only the descendants of Ali and Fatima, imams, were entitled to rule the Muslim community. The imam as the Shiites conceive him is a repository of wisdom, absolute in his political and religious authority. Under the theoretical aegis of the 12th imam, Shiite religious leaders exercise immense influence. They are more likely to take an innovative approach to religious issues and to defy political authority than their Sunni counterparts.
Shiites adopted the principles of taqwa(fear of displeasing Allah and a fear of Allah’s power). They also believe that beneath the explicit and literal meaning of the Koran are other levels of meaning which are known only to the imam , who can reveal them to chosen followers. Shiites pay a tax called* zakat* to their religious leaders. As a result, many Shiite leaders in Iran and Iraq have an immense wealth and property.
These excerpts have come from 1986 edition of Funk and Wagnalls Encyclopedia.
The main Islamic following, formed by the Sunnites, constitutes the vast majority of the Islamic community. It has a consensus type of attitude to accommodate minor differences of opinion and to affirm the consensus of the community in doctrinal matters.
The Sunnite tradition developed in reaction to early schismatic movements, such as the Kharajites, Mutazilites, and Shiites. The Sunnites’ inclusive definition of a Muslim, for instance, was conceived in reaction to the narrow extremism of the Kharijites, who emphasized God’s power, will, and determination of human fate, which in turn developed in reaction to the Mutazilite insistence on the absolute freedom of the human will.
The Sunnite political doctrines emerged mainly in the struggle against the legitimism (right to rule by inheritance) espoused by the Shiites. The Shiites developed a doctrine of the infallibility, sinlessness, and divine right to authority of the descendents of the fourth caliph, Ali ibn Abu Talib, who’s wife, Fatima, was a direct descendent of Muhammed. They maintained that only the descendants of Ali and Fatima, imams, were entitled to rule the Muslim community. The imam as the Shiites conceive him is a repository of wisdom, absolute in his political and religious authority. Under the theoretical aegis of the 12th imam, Shiite religious leaders exercise immense influence. They are more likely to take an innovative approach to religious issues and to defy political authority than their Sunni counterparts.
Shiites adopted the principles of taqwa(fear of displeasing Allah and a fear of Allah’s power). They also believe that beneath the explicit and literal meaning of the Koran are other levels of meaning which are known only to the imam , who can reveal them to chosen followers. Shiites pay a tax called* zakat* to their religious leaders. As a result, many Shiite leaders in Iran and Iraq have an immense wealth and property.
These excerpts have come from 1986 edition of Funk and Wagnalls Encyclopedia.
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nmgauss
Guest
The fact that you consulted an imam tells me that the mosque was Shiite. Most Muslims are Sunnites.
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Augustine3
Guest
It’s interesting you brought that up. This passage appears to have been from an apocryphal gospel called the Arabic Gospel of the Infancy of the Saviour.
The Arabic Gospel Of The Infancy Of The Savior:
v2 “He has said that Jesus spoke, and, indeed, when He was lying in His cradle said to Mary His mother: I am Jesus, the Son of God, the Logos, whom thou hast brought forth, as the Angel Gabriel announced to thee; and my Father has sent me for the salvation of the world.”
Abdullah Yusuf Ali The Quran
Surah 19:29-34
"But she pointed to the babe. They said: “How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?” He said: “I am indeed a servant of Allah: He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet; And He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live; (He) hath made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable; So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)”! Such (was) Jesus the son of Mary: (it is) a statement of truth, about which they (vainly) dispute.[4]
In both narratives Jesus is presented as a baby in the cradle giving a highly theological discourse in the presence of The Virgin Mary about his respective mission in both religions.
Muhammad was accused of burrowing ancient tales and this was his response But the misbelievers say: “Naught is this but a lie which he has forged, and others have helped him at it.” In truth it is they who have put forward an iniquity and a falsehood. And they say: “Tales of the ancients, which he has caused to be written: and they are dictated before him morning and evening.” Say: "The (Qur’an) was sent down by Him who knows the mystery (that is) in the heavens and the earth: verily He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. – Surah 25:4-6 Not much of a defence on Muhammad’s part, just a simple “I’m not lying, they are! The Quran was sent down from Allah and that’s that!”
For further Legend/Quran parallels please see this link
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