No offense was take, no worries.
I think you have summed it up beautifully.
I’m glad you took no offense.
When saying that we have discarded logic for the nature of our prophet, I can not agree with that, because obviously here you are misunderstanding even the role of the prphet and Islam.
In what way have I misunderstood it? Stating that I misunderstand something doesn’t make it so; you have to present an argument about why my understanding is mistaken.
You also have said that we worship God through Jesus and Mohammed, not true either.
What was meant by that is that you derive your method of worship form the life of Muhammad. As for Catholics, we actually do worship God through Christ, because Christ is God’s son, and is God incarnate.
For us Muslims the role of the prophet is nothing but a messenger, he is the bearer of news from God, that is all. So with or without Mohammed Islam would still exist, we do not need the prophet.
At the risk of sounding snarky, I’ll agree with your last point there
However, how can you say that Islam would still exist without Muhhamad if it is from his teachings that all of your beliefs are derived? That’s like saying Christianity wouldn’t exist without Christ, or Judaism wouldn’t exist Without Abraham.
We do not need Jesus either.
I’ll respectfully disagree, but will save that for another topic.
God could have still sent us the books without the prophets. So we do not worship any prophet, we do not worhsip God through anything/any human being. We worship God directly without intercessors, without “helpers”.
Except for that the books are only as important / worthwhile as the people they are written about. The Bible wouldn’t be important if not for Christ, the Torah wouldn’t be important without Abraham and the Prophets. The Qu’ran wouldn’t be considered important if not for the religion that Muhammad started.
Porphets were not without faults, flaws, or sins, they were humans however God chose them and strengthened them, forgave their shortcomings, and made them “super humans”.
In the OT, the ascension to being a prophet was accompanied by hardship, and a change in nature of the prophets themselves, the same is true of Christ’s apostles. Muhammad, on the other hand, indulged in all of the worldly pleasure that both the OT and NT spoke against, and yet still claimed it as the will of God. This is why I state that your religion requires a complete disconnect with logic. You follow a man claiming to be a man of God, but who rejects the core tenants of all previous prophets and holy men. It is true that good men fail, and I do not hold Muhammad’s failings against him as the key source of distrust. However, when the prophets failed, they took responsibility for it. When Muhammad failed, he said that God had allowed a special provision just for him.
But I do not like when people who have no knowledge of any subject not just religion, talk about that subject or form opinions. I can bet 1million dollar you have never read the life of the prophet, you don’t know much if anything about him. Therefore you can no form an opinion on the person he was. You ca form an opinion on Muslims, you are free to do so.
You are correct, I have never read the entire Qu’ran. I have, however, read about the life of Muhammad pulled straight from the words of his own holy book. In fact, I have read a number of things discussing his life, from both a Christian and secular perspective; and I think a couple from an actual Muslim perspective. I can’t say I was impressed.
To say we put blinders in order to get past his severe shortcomings, tells me you **really ** don’t know anything about him but what you have heard on the media. I can not blame you though, and if I’m wrong correct me. I can even give you some non Muslim writers who wrote about him in truth and beyond prejudice who can flat out disagree with you.
You are entitled to your opinion, as I am mine. Only one of the two is logically consistent, and I’d love to discuss which that is with you.
I think the reason why our differences seem to be irreconcilable because of the concepts we have of God. If get to agree on the concetps we would pretty much be identical.
You believe in a singular God, not a trinity, which is a major difference. You also reject that God incarnate himself as man, and died for our sins; which is another -major- difference.
Second main point of difference are both Jesus and Mohammed. We Muslims can still have Islam without Mohammed, but Christians can not have Christianity without the Christ.
I assert that Islam -cannot- exist without Muhammad, since it is based around his life and teachings.
Only Quran is the major determinator of Islam without it there would be no Islam, we do not regard Mohammed as an angel, but as a migthy man of God just like all the prophets before him.
If you still have questions, please ask
sorry for the long explanation.
I hope you will not be offended, and if you are I’m really sorry didn’t mean it.
Again, I also hope that you are not offended; I simply have significant issues with Islam, and you asked us to voice our opinions. I mean no disrespect to you,m and believe that you are sincerely seeking out God. I simply feel that you are looking in the wrong place.
Also, I won’t be able to respond again this evening, so if you chose to reply to me I’ll try to hit it in the morning. God Bless ^^
