Islam and Christianity

[imamuslim]

I’m glad you took no offense.

You are right, sorry I left it blank without explanation, sorry.
In Islam prophets play one role only, they are only bearers of news from God. They are like even though I shouldn’t use this as an example, but just to simplfy things. It’s like UPS delivery people would play more than messengers roles, it makes no sense, their jobs and roles are mere messengers, they deliver things to people. That’s the role the prophets from God play. They are delivers of messages.

The life of Mohammed is not a way of worship, we do not derive our worshipping God from him or his lie, we follow his actions of piety only, his elevated character. We worship God how he tells us to worship him through the Quran.

No I do not mean to belittle the prophets, God forbid. I only gave the example that since prophets are only delivers and bearers of news from God. So we can imagine God working through other things if he didn’t send prophets and messengers, they are only a way not THE way. Just like UPS can deliver it’s packages to people without having delivery people. That’s what I mean by Islam is not built on Mohammed. However the big misunderstanding here is Islam itself. But that’s another topic in itself.

So the same goes for Jesus in Islam, yes I know we don’t see and understand Jesus the same way. But Jesus and Mohammed are the same to Islam, they only are bearers of news. So yes that is another different universe not just topic.

You have never read the Quran, so it makes it a little hard for you to understand. The Quran is not about Mohammed, it does not mention him as much as you think it does.
No prophet brought his own religion, they all brought news from God, those news had different forms, some scripture, others just recitations, ect …
Even the Bible says that Jesus does not talk of his own whim nor does he do his own will, read the Bible you will have a better understanding. The Bible is not solemnly about Jesus nor is the Torah about Moses, obviously it would mention them since they are the ones who brought them to us from God. But they are not the objects of worship. God is, only God. If you want to argue that Mohammed started Islam, we have to say that Jesus created Christianity, Moses Judaism, what about Abraham, Jacob, Isaac, Noah, … what religions did they bring then ?
If you also argue that no, they didn’t bring any new religion only Mohammed did, it would make things very difficult for both of us to have a rational discussion then.

Hmmm I am not very sure where you took these claims from. It is very obvious you never read anything about Mohamed or you took all your “knowledge” from non islamic sources.
I am not goign to discuss this however. If you are open to knowing the truth and to go tot he source for knowledge, I am here to help. If you want to hold on to your opinions, you are more than free to do so as well.

You say you read about his life, yet you can conclude false claims. Hmm not too sure if I can beleive you went to the source.

Yes a major one, I agree. It makes many Muslims upset and uncomfortable to say God became a man and died for us instead of just fogriving.
It makes Christians as upset and uncomfortable to say that God would not become a man, let alone would die. I understand both stances.

Again, he did not bring any new teachings, nor did he do his will nor he followed his whims. Just like Moses, Jesus, Abraham he did God’s will and spoke God’s Word, God’s teachings.
You can disagree if you want, but it does not make it the truth.
It really is hard to make one see the truth or at least hold that it can be a probability that what I say can be the truth. You arleady have a set of fix opinions, I am not going to try to “prove” you wrong or anything. I will not change your opinions.

I feel the same about you haha, please dont take anything I said offending
I have huge issues when it comes to Christianity as well.

No problem.

 

[dronald]

Yes a major one, I agree. It makes many Muslims upset and uncomfortable to say God became a man and died for us instead of just fogriving.
It makes Christians as upset and uncomfortable to say that God would not become a man, let alone would die. I understand both stances.

Can God join His creation as a man?

Again, he did not bring any new teachings, nor did he do his will nor he followed his whims. Just like Moses, Jesus, Abraham he did God’s will and spoke God’s Word, God’s teachings.
You can disagree if you want, but it does not make it the truth.
It really is hard to make one see the truth or at least hold that it can be a probability that what I say can be the truth. You arleady have a set of fix opinions, I am not going to try to “prove” you wrong or anything. I will not change your opinions.

What are your beliefs on a new covenant promised by God throughout both the Jewish Scriptures and the Christian Scriptures? Both Jews and Christians accept that there will be a new covenant to come or there already has been.

What does the Qur’an say about the new covenant and if it does not say anything when God clearly spoke about it throughout history, then why not?

 

[Reuben_J]

We Muslims can still have Islam without Mohammed, but Christians can not have Christianity without the Christ. Only Quran is the major determinator of Islam without it there would be no Islam, …

 

[dronald]

He’s saying that the Qur’an could have been revealed without Mohammad.

 

[Reuben_J]

He’s saying that the Qur’an could have been revealed without Mohammad.

Fair enough but that is hypothetically.

Knowing how Muslims revere Mohammad, personally I cannot imagine how he can be disassociated with the Quran even if hypothetically. It is just like Christians saying there can be Christianity without Jesus or there can be Jesus without Mary.

Of course those can happen – somebody else could take their place. The Quran would be revealed to Ali and God’s only Son would be born of Catherine and his name would be Emmanuel. I don’t know what the OP is trying to prove with the statement other than just trying to one up on Christianity. It is hard to imagine that there would be Islam without Mohammad. Yes, the Quran may be revealed to Ali but if that should happened then perhaps Ali would not have been so much of a womanizer or a warmonger and Islam could have taken a different course.

 

[dronald]

Fair enough but that is hypothetically.

Knowing how Muslims revere Mohammad, personally I cannot imagine how he can be disassociated with the Quran even if hypothetically. It is just like Christians saying there can be Christianity without without Jesus or there can be Jesus without Mary.

Of course those can happen – somebody else could take their place. The Quran would be revealed to Ali and God’s only Son would be born of Catherine and his name would be Emmanuel. I don’t know what the OP is trying to prove with the statement other than just trying to one up on Christianity. It is hard to imagine that there would be Islam without Mohammad. Yes, the Quran may be revealed to Ali but if that should happened then perhaps Ali would not have been so much of a womanizer or a warmonger and Islam could be have taken a different path then.

I don’t really take issue with his statement apart form the Shahada bearing Mohammad’s name and thus being a mandatory tenant of Islam. Surprising that the Shahada doesn’t mention the Qur’an instead.

But I don’t think this point is good or bad, rather irrelevant.

 

[Reuben_J]

I don’t really take issue with his statement apart form the Shahada bearing Mohammad’s name and thus being a mandatory tenant of Islam. Surprising that the Shahada doesn’t mention the Qur’an instead.

But I don’t think this point is good or bad, rather irrelevant.

Yeah, now that you mention the Shahada. Obviously something like becoming a Muslim is important and one has to utter Mohammad’s name in order to do that! So much for saying that Islam can be without Mohammad. I know, Ali could be mentioned in the Shahada instead.

Probably it is pertinent that Mohammad’s name is being mentioned in the Shahada in the same breath with Allah. What does this tell a Muslim?

Then there is the assertion that the Quran is uncreated. …

 

[concretecamper]

imamuslim:

Hello : )

I’m wondering how our brethren Christians see Muslims and Islam.
I will give a breif definition of the Muslim view of Christianty and Chrsitians (anybody who call themselves Christians).
Muslims beleive that the Gospel is the Good News that Jesus brought, we do not beleive that Jesus is God nor the Son of God, however we beleive that all Christians have a very big chance of going to heaven along with other non Muslims and Muslims, because they are Monotheistic, they follow Jesus the best they can, a lot of Christians (like the real sincere ones, the very devout, submissive to God ones) actually are going to heaven, and would be among the first to enter it. We Muslims beleive that Chrsitianity is pure, it has a lot of truth in it, it has more common ground with Islam that the media and other bad Christians/Muslims want the rest of humanity to beleive. We beleive that Chrsitniaty is anohter path to God and to salation, despite it being a littel bit different, we don’t beleive God would take on Muslims as “his” people and ignore the rest of humanity because they are not Muslims.
These are the main points, basically in a very simplistic way.
So tell me how you see us.

Allah is all powerful, all knowing, all loving, all merciful…why not wrap it all into one and call him Father?

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[IgnatianPhilo]

I can write a whole book about qualities a Muslims should have to be admired.
Kwnoing that we do not have saints, we do not have a hiearchy either, we have however pious Muslims we try to imitate, all were scholars/scientists/poets/philophers …
We do not put them on a pedestral though, we put them on a high esteem as good examples that should be followed, that’s all. Obviously any pious, God wary, good loving people are to be admired in the Muslim eyes. If you read the Quran it talks about Priests, pious and admirable people of the book, means Christians and Jews. I know it doesn’t help much what I said, but anybody who has a Godly personality is to be admired from any faith. That’s how we Muslims see things.

How can any Christian possibly be pious according to the quran when the Christian neccessarily commits shirk?

 

[jimkhong]

1. The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,(5) who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting.

Since in the course of centuries not a few quarrels and hostilities have arisen between Christians and Moslems, this sacred synod urges all to forget the past and to work sincerely for mutual understanding and to preserve as well as to promote together for the benefit of all mankind social justice and moral welfare, as well as peace and freedom.

vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decl_19651028_nostra-aetate_en.html

imamuslim, the passage that Michael Mayo quoted is the official teaching of the Catholic Church, which was issued in 1965 after a meeting of all the Catholic bishops throughout the world (a total of 2500 at that time). Catholics are obliged to subscribe to this teaching. You can get the full text in the link he provided, it is not a very long text, just one page long.

The actual attitude that Catholics have regarding Muslims will of course be coloured by our personal experiences. In my country last week, for instance, a court held that Christians are not allowed to use the word “Allah” as it is reserved only for Muslims. See this thread and the reaction of Christians to this and previous provocations is also intersting.

Many Christians (but who knows how many) understand that Islam today has been hijacked by a political strand of the religion and I pray that you will be able to reclaim your religion from these extremists but this is something that mainstream Muslims must do - non-Muslims can only support from outside.

 

[MartinJordan]

The actual attitude that Catholics have regarding Muslims will of course be coloured by our personal experiences.

As for me, my experiences with Muslims have been pleasant. Except (and not in an unpleasant way but rather disappointing) is when I learned later that Muslims profess that Mohammed is that last prophet who was God’s messenger for Mankind.

Meanwhile it was Jesus who sent his Apostles to Baptise the WHOLE WORLD in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit to spread the GOOD NEWS of the KINGDOM OF GOD. I felt that this was a BETRAYAL to what had already been REVEALED.

Yet, I KNOW I must be charitable, just like the Magisterium teaches us. This CHARITY is beyond human measure that’s why it MUST be from God.

Many Christians (but who knows how many) understand that Islam today has been hijacked by a political strand of the religion and I pray that you will be able to reclaim your religion from these extremists but this is something that mainstream Muslims must do - non-Muslims can only support from outside.

Apparently if this is not done, Islam will destroy itself from within.

MJ

 

[St_Francis]

I can write a whole book about qualities a Muslims should have to be admired.
Kwnoing that we do not have saints, we do not have a hiearchy either, we have however pious Muslims we try to imitate, all were scholars/scientists/poets/philophers …
We do not put them on a pedestral though, we put them on a high esteem as good examples that should be followed, that’s all. Obviously any pious, God wary, good loving people are to be admired in the Muslim eyes. If you read the Quran it talks about Priests, pious and admirable people of the book, means Christians and Jews. I know it doesn’t help much what I said, but anybody who has a Godly personality is to be admired from any faith. That’s how we Muslims see things.

I wonder about the specific qualities because it seems that Muslims admire Mohammed, but Mohammed did things which were, to Catholics, not admirable.

So, Catholics admire people who give up some good things in life for the better things of God.

And people who give up some of the good things in life to care for others in need for the sake of God.

The willingness to serve God and people around us is part of humility, which is a quality important to Catholics.

These are some of the qualities which make us think that people are holy. What are some of the qualities which make Muslims think people are holy? The specifics types you mentioned, scholars, philosophers, etc, yes, those people can be admired for the gifts God gave them, but not everyone can attain in those areas. The qualities we admire can, with the help of God, be attained by anyone.

That is closer to what I was asking, which specific qualities make people admirable in Islam. You don’t have to write a book, just list 2 or 3

Also, we have a set system for recognizing holy people, and it seems you don’t. But before we had the system, people still noticed exceptionally holy people. We have people like Mother Theresa, the Martyrs of North America, Fr Solanus Casey… Who are some more modern people that Moslems recognize as exceptional?

Thank you

 

[Bruised_Reed]

No I am not a Sufi. Anybody can be one, you don’t necessarily have to be a Muslim to be Sufi.

I wondered. I know of someone who was Catholic and now is Sufi but also said he hadn’t converted.

If that is so, is Sufism taken seriously by Muslims? How does it work to be Sufi but not Muslim?

 

[Reuben_J]

What are some of the qualities which make Muslims think people are holy?

One of them, if you have the money, to build a mosque.

 

[jakasaki]

Hello : )

I’m wondering how our brethren Christians see Muslims and Islam.
I will give a breif definition of the Muslim view of Christianty and Chrsitians (anybody who call themselves Christians).
Muslims beleive that the Gospel is the Good News that Jesus brought, we do not beleive that Jesus is God nor the Son of God, however we beleive that all Christians have a very big chance of going to heaven along with other non Muslims and Muslims, because they are Monotheistic, they follow Jesus the best they can, a lot of Christians (like the real sincere ones, the very devout, submissive to God ones) actually are going to heaven, and would be among the first to enter it. We Muslims beleive that Chrsitianity is pure, it has a lot of truth in it, it has more common ground with Islam that the media and other bad Christians/Muslims want the rest of humanity to beleive. We beleive that Chrsitniaty is anohter path to God and to salation, despite it being a littel bit different, we don’t beleive God would take on Muslims as “his” people and ignore the rest of humanity because they are not Muslims.
These are the main points, basically in a very simplistic way.
So tell me how you see us.

Do you believe that Isa will return and destroy Christianity and make Islam the global religion…???

 

[jakasaki]

Hello : )

Muslims beleive that the Gospel is the Good News that Jesus brought,

.

Please explain that. What do you mean by “Jesus brought”…

Muslims state that the Injeel is a book given to Jesus which was lost.

“And in their footsteps We sent Jesus, the Son of Mary, confirming the law that had come before him. We gave him the Gospel, therein was guidance and light and confirmation of the law that had come before him, a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah.”
Quran 5:46.

“I am indeed a servant of Allah, He gave me the Book and made me a prophet.”
Quran 19:32

You’re the first Muslim I’ve seen say differently.