Islam and double standards

[Nickkname]

Has anyone else noticed that Islam uses double standards in order to justify its beliefs? For example, the virginity of Mary.

Islam states that the Bible is corrupted. If the Bible is corrupted, than why use it? You can’t cherry pick Bible verses and say, “See it’s true because it matches up with what’s in the Koran!” That’s called faulty logic. Islam, however, uses the Bible in order to justify its beliefs, such as the virginity of Mary. When confronted by Christians about the perpetual virginity of Mary, claiming it to be a Christian belief, Muslims say “No, Islmaic belief, it’s in the Koran,” and than go on to say, “But why are you attacking Mary’s virginity? Don’t you believe in it as well? Is it not in the Bible?” And they even list the Biblical verses about Mary’s virginity, using it to justify their own beliefs and seem right in the eyes of Christians.

So Islam states that the Bible is corrupted, yet uses the Bible in order to justify its beliefs. And when confronted by Christians who state the Koran is corrupted, Muslims say, “No, it’s not corrupt, Allah protects His Word”. Well, that’s exactly what Christians believe about the Bible: It’s not corrupted, it’s protected by God. But Christians, unlike Muslims, don’t rely on the Koran to justify their beliefs. So this is yet another instance of double standards in Islam.

A third example of double standards used by Islam is in regards to Jesus’ Messiahship. Islam states that Jesus is the Messiah, but claim He failed in His work. How dose Islam claim this? By saying He didn’t fulfill the messanic prophecies in the Old Testament and saying He didn’t die on the Cross. Well, if Jesus is the Messiah, than how can He not fulfill the prophecies? If He didn’t fulfilll them, than He’s not the Messiah, than He’s just a false messiah, one of the many false messiahs who’ve cropped up in history. Furthermore, Jesus is a Christian figure. Christians believe He died on a cross. For Islam to claim Jesus did not die on the Cross is to steal Jesus and make Him into something He is not, i.e., one of the false “historical Jesus’s” so many like to believe in (and it’s to be noted that “historical Jesus’s” resemble the faces of those who propose them more than the actual figure of Jesus - and this is so for Islam as well). Finally, the suffering and death of Jesus is supported by the prophecies in the Old Testament - which brings us back to whether Jesus fulfilled them or not. (Christians believe He did, because Christians believe He is the Messiah)

 

[Angelos]

Islam is an ideology based on double standard since this notion to Muslims is what oxygen to the living! Islam would not survive if it did not adhere to the practice of double standard and injustice.

If you read the Koran, the primary thing you see is that Mohammad’s scribes accuse people of what they themselves constantly do! The Meccan pagans are denounced for following the religion of their fathers (ancestors) whilst Muslims are praised for following the religion of their father Abraham!!!

Mohammad repetitively asks Meccan pagans to prove the divine origin of their religion, but he gets infurious and starts to curse the same people whenever they use Mohammad’s argument against him.

The Koran generally claims that non-Muslims do not know anything, but only follow a conjecture whereas this claim is a conjecture sanctified by Muslims.

Muslims object to any kind of critique of the Koran (they threaten people and go wild in most cases) whereas they resort to democracy and freedom of thought/speech/conscience when the critique of other religions/scriptures is in question.

Muslims believe that the only access to the teachings of the other true prophets and the former revelations is through faith in Mohammad and the Koran. Muslims always pretend to believe in all the scriptures although they only believe in the Koran.

Muslims refer to the textual variations in the ancient manuscripts of the New Testament to support their theory of Biblical corruption whereas the Koran has more problems with regard to variations in the repeated narratives of the same event.

 

[Reuben_J]

Has anyone else noticed that Islam uses double standards in order to justify its beliefs? For example, the virginity of Mary.

Islam states that the Bible is corrupted. If the Bible is corrupted, than why use it? You can’t cherry pick Bible verses and say, “See it’s true because it matches up with what’s in the Koran!” That’s called faulty logic. Islam, however, uses the Bible in order to justify its beliefs, such as the virginity of Mary. When confronted by Christians about the perpetual virginity of Mary, claiming it to be a Christian belief, Muslims say “No, Islmaic belief, it’s in the Koran,” and than go on to say, “But why are you attacking Mary’s virginity? Don’t you believe in it as well? Is it not in the Bible?” And they even list the Biblical verses about Mary’s virginity, using it to justify their own beliefs and seem right in the eyes of Christians.

I feel primarily the double standard that Muslims used is when they critique the Bible, a standard which they would not use for the Quran.

About their stand on the corruption of the Bible - they believe where the Bible agrees with the Quran, that part is uncorrupted. It 's only when the Bible disagrees with the Quran, then they fall back on the latter. I think that’s a fair game.

I do not think that they ever use the Bible to justify their belief. They do quote the Bible when arguing with Christians just to prove the Christians being inconsistent (in argument).

I agree that Islam cannot explain the virgin birth as much as it cannot explain the term Messiah. At least not like the indepth context of how we Christians understand them. Since both issues are very important doctrinally with far reaching implication, the fact that Islam does not elaborate on these makes it suspect. The other is about what happen to Jesus on the cross and Islam does not know about it - only to say that he didn’t die there.

We can only make assumption for the reason it being so, the most common one being Mohammad merely parroting the oral hearsay that he heard or taught by Christian heretics. This is rather likely, and if that the case it explains very well the inconsistency of Mohammad’s narrative as per Biblical story.

So Islam states that the Bible is corrupted, yet uses the Bible in order to justify its beliefs. And when confronted by Christians who state the Koran is corrupted, Muslims say, “No, it’s not corrupt, Allah protects His Word”. Well, that’s exactly what Christians believe about the Bible: It’s not corrupted, it’s protected by God. But Christians, unlike Muslims, don’t rely on the Koran to justify their beliefs. So this is yet another instance of double standards in Islam.

I don’t think that’s how Muslims explain it. Allah protects His Word but bad men can corrupt them. Of course this is more of like curtain raiser for Mohammad to take center stage. Since previous scriptures were corrupted or lost in translation, Mohammad’s Quran, once and for all, seals God’s Word eternally. The problem with this - is the application of the double standard. The Quran is actually a compilaton of caliph Uthman - his version and nothing else, roughly their equivalent of the canonization of the scripture. The double standard is they attack our canonization of the Bible - accusing it of man-made.

A third example of double standards used by Islam is in regards to Jesus’ Messiahship. Islam states that Jesus is the Messiah, but claim He failed in His work. How dose Islam claim this? By saying He didn’t fulfill the messanic prophecies in the Old Testament and saying He didn’t die on the Cross. Well, if Jesus is the Messiah, than how can He not fulfill the prophecies? If He didn’t fulfilll them, than He’s not the Messiah, than He’s just a false messiah, one of the many false messiahs who’ve cropped up in history. Furthermore, Jesus is a Christian figure. Christians believe He died on a cross. For Islam to claim Jesus did not die on the Cross is to steal Jesus and make Him into something He is not, i.e., one of the false “historical Jesus’s” so many like to believe in (and it’s to be noted that “historical Jesus’s” resemble the faces of those who propose them more than the actual figure of Jesus - and this is so for Islam as well). Finally, the suffering and death of Jesus is supported by the prophecies in the Old Testament - which brings us back to whether Jesus fulfilled them or not. (Christians believe He did, because Christians believe He is the Messiah)

I agree with you here. Again it shows the absurdity of Quran’s version of the crucifixion narrative.

God bless.

 

[planten]

Has anyone else noticed that Islam uses double standards in order to justify its beliefs? For example, the virginity of Mary.

Christians could not define / describe the virginity. What they understand by it. Will a woman who never met a man till she got married and met her husband be called a virgin, or not? Just give answer please. Thanks.

Islam states that the Bible is corrupted. If the Bible is corrupted, than why use it? You can’t cherry pick Bible verses and say, “See it’s true because it matches up with what’s in the Koran!” That’s called faulty logic. Islam, however, uses the Bible in order to justify its beliefs, such as the virginity of Mary. When confronted by Christians about the perpetual virginity of Mary, claiming it to be a Christian belief, Muslims say “No, Islmaic belief, it’s in the Koran,” and than go on to say, “But why are you attacking Mary’s virginity? Don’t you believe in it as well? Is it not in the Bible?” And they even list the Biblical verses about Mary’s virginity, using it to justify their own beliefs and seem right in the eyes of Christians.

** Your quote is too long. Many things are there. I can only say that the christians or church leaders could not do a good job of corruption of the bible. They could not corrupt the words of God completely.

Now some friends here (angelos) are disowning bible that it was not from Jesus. Jesus did not have any book and did not give any book. What would you do about that please? Bible is no where and it is down to nothing now. It does not belong to father or the son. **

So Islam states that the Bible is corrupted, yet uses the Bible in order to justify its beliefs. And when confronted by Christians who state the Koran is corrupted, Muslims say, “No, it’s not corrupt, Allah protects His Word”. Well, that’s exactly what Christians believe about the Bible: It’s not corrupted, it’s protected by God. But Christians, unlike Muslims, don’t rely on the Koran to justify their beliefs. So this is yet another instance of double standards in Islam.

It is the same double standard of the christians that they like angels visiting joseph the carpentar. But when Muslims say that angel visited muhammad and gave the message, they deny it. But the christians believe that angel gave message to Jospeh not to go near Mary all her life. What a marriage!! Perhaps a show piece marriage to cheat the people.

A third example of double standards used by Islam is in regards to Jesus’ Messiahship. Islam states that Jesus is the Messiah, but claim He failed in His work. How dose Islam claim this? By saying He didn’t fulfill the messanic prophecies in the Old Testament and saying He didn’t die on the Cross. Well, if Jesus is the Messiah, than how can He not fulfill the prophecies? If He didn’t fulfilll them, than He’s not the Messiah, than He’s just a false messiah, one of the many false messiahs who’ve cropped up in history.

We never say Jesus failed in his mission. But we disagree with the mission assigned to Jesus by the church.

Furthermore, Jesus is a Christian figure. Christians believe He died on a cross. For Islam to claim Jesus did not die on the Cross is to steal Jesus and make Him into something He is not, i.e., one of the false “historical Jesus’s” so many like to believe in (and it’s to be noted that “historical Jesus’s” resemble the faces of those who propose them more than the actual figure of Jesus - and this is so for Islam as well).

**The death of Jesus on the cross is not proved by any means at all. Jesus had fainted and appeared to be dead. He had prayed in the garden before arrest to avoid the cup. He told his followers also to pray.

This creates many problems. Why is the god praying? Then later church says that God died. That is also unbelieveable. How could a God die? He was seen walking about with the same wounded body and same soul. And according to his promise to show the miracle of prophet Jonas, who did not die in the belly of the fish, Jesus should also not die. Otherwise the miracle cannot be same as that of prophet Jonas.

There are so many proofs that Jesus did not die on the cross. He should not die a cursed type of death. That was bad for him.
His legs were not broken. That was an important part of crucifixion, to break the bones, so the fat melts out.

He was not properly buried but rather looked after and treated in the tomb and he recovered very quickly. he could not die in few hours. The thieves were alive when brought down from cross. Nobody there could say that Jesus was alive. That would have been harmful for Jesus.

I can give two more good reasons to prove that Jesus had not died on the cross. He had fainted. An angel had come to assure Jesus that his prayer was accepted.

You just cannot get away with the idea that Jesus died on the cross and start blaming muslims about these things.**

Finally, the suffering and death of Jesus is supported by the prophecies in the Old Testament - which brings us back to whether Jesus fulfilled them or not. (Christians believe He did, because Christians believe He is the Messiah)

** WE Muslims also believe that Jesus was the Messiah for the Jews. The one they were waiting for. He fulfilled his mission as much as he could. If there was anything according to the OT then it was the duty of the Jews to see to that first. Not to teach us that now. They saw nothing and disbelieved in him. WE still believe in him.

There is no double standard from the Muslims, please see.**

 

[planten]

I feel primarily the double standard that Muslims used is when they critique the Bible, a standard which they would not use for the Quran.

About their stand on the corruption of the Bible - they believe where the Bible agrees with the Quran, that part is uncorrupted. It 's only when the Bible disagrees with the Quran, then they fall back on the latter. I think that’s a fair game.

I do not think that they ever use the Bible to justify their belief. They do quote the Bible when arguing with Christians just to prove the Christians being inconsistent (in argument).

**There is no substance in your post. We have every knowledge about Jesus and his mother and grand mother. On the other hand bible did not do justice to Mary at all. Not a good word about Mary is there. The double standard of church is visible in permitting the angels visiting peopel in bible but not allowing the visit of angel to Muhammad.

Also, calling all mankind, even new born baby a sinner, even all prophets as sinner but Jesus who is a prophet is not a sinner. That is all a double standard, and much more than that. The church has a quadrangle standard for Jesus.**

I agree that Islam cannot explain the virgin birth as much as it cannot explain the term Messiah. At least not like the indepth context of how we Christians understand them. Since both issues are very important doctrinally with far reaching implication, the fact that Islam does not elaborate on these makes it suspect. The other is about what happen to Jesus on the cross and Islam does not know about it - only to say that he didn’t die there

.

** islam can explain virgin birth more than bible provided you define virginity, not only of Mary but virginity in general. And do not have double standards for Mary**.

We can only make assumption for the reason it being so, the most common one being Mohammad merely parroting the oral hearsay that he heard or taught by Christian heretics. This is rather likely, and if that the case it explains very well the inconsistency of Mohammad’s narrative as per Biblical story.

** If Muhammad was parroting and learning from christian heretics then all prophets including Moses and Jesus were learning from heretics and all their teachings were false. Simple as that.**

I don’t think that’s how Muslims explain it. Allah protects His Word but bad men can corrupt them. Of course this is more of like curtain raiser for Mohammad to take center stage. Since previous scriptures were corrupted or lost in translation, Mohammad’s Quran, once and for all, seals God’s Word eternally. The problem with this - is the application of the double standard. The Quran is actually a compilaton of caliph Uthman - his version and nothing else, roughly their equivalent of the canonization of the scripture. The double standard is they attack our canonization of the Bible - accusing it of man-made.

**The Quran is a completelyrevealed book from God, every word of it. That is not the case with bible which is a very late man made book. Here some christians have disowned bible that it was not given by Jesus. he did not have any book and did not give it. Then bible is no where. It is not from the father and it is not from the son. So whose creation is that book,bible NT?

You should not worry too much about bible NT now. It is nothing sacred**.
]quote]
I agree with you here. Again it shows the absurdity of Quran’s version of the crucifixion narrative.

God bless.

** Keep on agreeing with each other. We Muslims do not agree about your statement about Jesus at all. There is nothing right in bible NT about Jesus. Except a very few beautiful words refered to Jesus.**

 

[ralphinal]

Christians could not define / describe the virginity. What they understand by it. Will a woman who never met a man till she got married and met her husband be called a virgin, or not? Just give answer please. Thanks.

Once a woman has sex, she is no longer a virgin. Once a man has sex, he is no longer a virgin. A person who is a virgin and marrage and only has sex with their spouse is no longer a virgin, but they are living a chaste life with the marital exclusion.

I have never heard the logic that allows a woman to have sex and no longer be a virgin. What if her first husband dies and she remarries? How many men before she is not a virgin?

The death of Jesus on the cross is not proved by any means at all. Jesus had fainted and appeared to be dead. He had prayed in the garden before arrest to avoid the cup. He told his followers also to pray.

He said he would die and rise again. There you go calling him a lier.

Amazing that this thread is now off-topic

 

[Analyzer]

He said he would die and rise again. There you go calling him a lier.

**Even if Jesus had said that he would die, doesn’t mean he would die literally just like how he called himself Son of God ( not in literal sense) and he expalined it’s real meaning only when he was forced by a bunch of Jews (who were with rocks in their hands to stone him). Then and there he told them that by ‘Son of God’, he meant same what God of the Law meant by calling all Jews are gods and sons of the Most High.( See John 10 and cf → Pslam 81/82)

Now, if you say, well, what proof do you have that Jesus actually did not mean his literal death. I would say: the only option left is to dig all the gospels carefully and find out did he really die later on to see whether he was talking his future death in literal sense or not.

So what we found from a thorough study of even the so-called gospels that he did not die on Cross. And he should not die also if Jesus was indeed a righteous, honest, right and truth-telling person. Otherwise the “only Sign” that he was prepared to give (from heaven-from God) was not even fullfilled (by his God).

So it is you actually turning your version of Jesus**, into a person who lies thus making those Jews (enemies of Jesus-puppets of Romans) look right and their claim justified and Jesus a liar.

With this, how can you blame Muslims? Did Muslims alter your gospels? Did Muslims dictate your Church dogmas? Do Muslims publish your Holy Bibles with alteration/omission…such as RSV Bible?

 

[bpbasilphx]

Even if Jesus had said that he would die, doesn’t mean he would die literally just like how he called himself Son of God ( not in literal sense) and he expalined it’s real meaning only when he was forced by a bunch of Jews (who were with rocks in their hands to stone him).

**But Jesus DID die LITERALLY.

He rose from the dead LITERALLY.

And He is the Son of God LITERALLY.

I don’t really care what Mahometans think about it.

I confess there is NO GOD but Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and Jesus is God Incarnate risen from the dead!**

 

[Angelos]

Even if Jesus had said that he would die, doesn’t mean he would die literally just like how he called himself Son of God ( not in literal sense) and he expalined it’s real meaning only when he was forced by a bunch of Jews (who were with rocks in their hands to stone him). Then and there he told them that by ‘Son of God’, he meant same what God of the Law meant by calling all Jews are gods and sons of the Most High.( See John 10 and cf → Pslam 81/82)

Jesus called Himself the “only begotten of the Father” (John 3:16) and made Himself equal to God when He called God HIS Father (John 5:18). He also said “The Father and I are ONE” (John 10:30). When the Jews wanted to stone Him since they considered Him blasphemous, He reminded them of the fact that His Father (God) had endorsed their equality through the works seen in Him (so it was impossible for God to blaspheme).

Multiple face Muslim poster, we have gone through these verses so many times and debunked your faulty presumptions derived from your aim to pervert the Christian scripture. The truth is that the New Testament always proves you a liar.

**
Now, if you say, well, what proof do you have that Jesus actually did not mean his literal death. I would say: the only option left is to dig all the gospels carefully and find out did he really die later on to see whether he was talking his future death in literal sense or not.**

In addition to the detailed accounts of Jesus’ passion in ALL of the Gospels, we have history testifying to the fact that Jesus literally died! Gnostic heresies and your sripture repeating their claims confirm the historicity of Jesus’ crucifixion because they can never take the cross out of Jesus’ life. Since EVERYONE saw that Jesus was on the cross, Gnostics and Mohammad’s scribes could only resort to the notion of appearance/illusion in the denial of Jesus’ crucifixion.

**
So what we found from a thorough study of even the so-called gospels that he did not die on Cross. And he should not die also if Jesus was indeed a righteous, honest, right and truth-telling person. Otherwise the “only Sign” that he was prepared to give (from heaven-from God) was not even fullfilled (by his God).**

What sign are you talking about? Where do you get that innovated idea of a sign from Heaven? Not likely from your Koran, which knows almost nothing about Jesus’ life and prophetic mission.

The Koran repetitively criticises the Jews for murdering Allah’s messengers (Surah 2:61, 87; Surah 5:70, etc). According to your reasoning, those messengers were killed by the Jews because they were not righteous, honest, right, and truth-telling people? It seems that you are also unaware of the praised notion of martyrdom in Islam! Maybe you are not even a righteous, right, honest, and truth-telling Muslim.

**
So it is you actually turning your version of Jesus**, into a person who lies thus making those Jews (enemies of Jesus-puppets of Romans) look right and their claim justified and Jesus a liar.

Jesus never lied when He said He was the only begotten of the Father. You have no right to slander the Lord with your stupid and baseless allegations.

You must be confusing the New Testament with the Islamic scripture. Your Koran turns God almighty into a lying god that delights in beguiling the Jews through a so-called miracle of illusion by making Jesus seem crucified and concealing the truth from humanity for 600 years!

**
With this, how can you blame Muslims? Did Muslims alter your gospels? Did Muslims dictate your Church dogmas? Do Muslims publish your Holy Bibles with alteration/omission…such as RSV Bible?
**

Muslims like you are trying to alter the Gospels and mislead people through a satanic message. Who else could we blame for that? Mohammad or his inept scribes?

 

[cathopologist]

There is no doubt Islam practises double-standards. Make a documentary that looks into Islam authenticity from a skeptical point of view and you will get over-reaction, enough to get your throat slit.

As the cross-dressing artist Grayson Perry once said, *“I’ve censored myself. The reason I haven’t gone all out attacking Islamism in my art is because I feel real fear that someone will slit my throat.”
*
On the other hand, you can place a crucifix in a jar of urine and Catholics are expected not to retaliate. Passers-by glance and Islamists gloat (over the fact that no one can literally poke fun of their religion, otherwise face consequences.), thinking Christians are a “cowardly” bunch.

For centuries, Christians have watched their countries, cities, churches and women and children taken away by invading Muslim armies, turning their churches into mosques, renaming their capital cities, raping Christian women and forcefully taking their children to become Janissaries (elite Muslim fighters or assassins).

Since the birth of Islam, Christians have tolerated their “holy texts” from degradation, mockery and lampooning of our holy scripture. This continues to this day and situations have worsened in countries like Malaysia, where Muslim converts to Christianity are facing very difficult situations when government courts deny converts their right to change their identity cards to reflect their new found religion. They are in breach of the UDHR, which states:

Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance. - Universal Declaration of Human Rights

No one shall be subject to coercion which would impair his freedom to have or to adopt a religion of his choice. - Article 18 (2) of the ICCPR

No, Islam is not the world’s fastest growing religion. It is the world’s feared religion, as it not only terrorizes, but denies their fellow religious to convert to another faith of their choice. The fact there are very little media reports on this is because reporters know controversy sells. But they are also wise (or cowardly) to know they need a head on their shoulders.

Now Islam is looking for new ways to spread their religion of peace: [.”

U.N. Anti-Blasphemy Resolution Curtails Free Speech, Critics Say

** Religious groups and free-speech advocates are banding together to fight a United Nations resolution they say is being used to spread Sharia law to the Western world and to intimidate anyone who criticizes Islam.**It “stresses the need to effectively combat defamation of all religions and incitement to religious hatred, against Islam and Muslims in particular](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,432502,00.html)

The sentence in bold sure looks fair, but “fairness” comes with a price tag.

 

[rikkk1958]

Christians could not define / describe the virginity. What they understand by it. Will a woman who never met a man till she got married and met her husband be called a virgin, or not? Just give answer please. Thanks.

The virgin birth is defined by God. The Holy Spirit came to Mary and with God’s power everything is possible to conceive and give birth without losing Mary’s virginity. If you do not believe this then you doubts God’s power.

** Your quote is too long. Many things are there. I can only say that the christians or church leaders could not do a good job of corruption of the bible. They could not corrupt the words of God completely.

Now some friends here (angelos) are disowning bible that it was not from Jesus. Jesus did not have any book and did not give any book. What would you do about that please? Bible is no where and it is down to nothing now. It does not belong to father or the son. **

Your ignorance proves that your logic is so poor. “Did not have any books” “did not give any book”? It seems you are lost man. Jesus with books or no books can have and give any books you need. God can prove to you anything tangible or not tangible. Why does He need to provide you with a book anyway?

It is the same double standard of the christians that they like angels visiting joseph the carpentar. But when Muslims say that angel visited muhammad and gave the message, they deny it. But the christians believe that angel gave message to Jospeh not to go near Mary all her life. What a marriage!! Perhaps a show piece marriage to cheat the people.

The problem is, you can not accept that Jesus had witnesses who saw and heard, and miracles to prove that He has power only God can do. With Muhammed, what can you expect? It can be denied because it is not true. He made it up. No witness. If there was, it was eaten by a goat.

We never say Jesus failed in his mission. But we disagree with the mission assigned to Jesus by the church.

Be specific and tell us which mission did you disagree.

**The death of Jesus on the cross is not proved by any means at all. Jesus had fainted and appeared to be dead. He had prayed in the garden before arrest to avoid the cup. He told his followers also to pray.

This creates many problems. Why is the god praying? Then later church says that God died. That is also unbelieveable. How could a God die? He was seen walking about with the same wounded body and same soul. And according to his promise to show the miracle of prophet Jonas, who did not die in the belly of the fish, Jesus should also not die. Otherwise the miracle cannot be same as that of prophet Jonas.

There are so many proofs that Jesus did not die on the cross. He should not die a cursed type of death. That was bad for him.
His legs were not broken. That was an important part of crucifixion, to break the bones, so the fat melts out.

He was not properly buried but rather looked after and treated in the tomb and he recovered very quickly. he could not die in few hours. The thieves were alive when brought down from cross. Nobody there could say that Jesus was alive. That would have been harmful for Jesus.

I can give two more good reasons to prove that Jesus had not died on the cross. He had fainted. An angel had come to assure Jesus that his prayer was accepted.

You just cannot get away with the idea that Jesus died on the cross and start blaming muslims about these things.**

You can not ignore the witnesses who saw and heard what happened. These witnesses suffered and died also for the truth. Can you sacrifice yourself for lies? Read the Acts of the Apostles and the letters.

** WE Muslims also believe that Jesus was the Messiah for the Jews. The one they were waiting for. He fulfilled his mission as much as he could. If there was anything according to the OT then it was the duty of the Jews to see to that first. Not to teach us that now. They saw nothing and disbelieved in him. WE still believe in him.

There is no double standard from the Muslims, please see.**

Of course there is. Stick with your faith in the father Abraham and God’s plan for salvation maybe granted to you. then fulfill your salvation by way of knowing the truth about Jesus. Do not let Muhammed deceive you.

 

[planten]

Of course there is. Stick with your faith in the father Abraham and God’s plan for salvation maybe granted to you. then fulfill your salvation by way of knowing the truth about Jesus. Do not let Muhammed deceive you.

**Nobody is decieving me. Jesus was for the Jews only. He was their promised Messiah. They rejected him. That is the end of Jesus. There is no need to take his message to the world. Please take it back to the Jews again. Muhammad is not your enemy. And you should not be his enemy.

Try to read the Quran as you wish that Muslims read the bible. But remember that Jesus was for the Jews only. His mission was only for the Jews and he was a messenger to the children of Israel, under the command of the prophet Moses a.s.

Jesus was not an independent prophet. He was the last prophet in the long line of other prophets acting under the orders of Moses a.s. He was the last prophet for the Israelis. After that no prophet was to appear amongst the Jews.

If you want to know more about Jesus then we will tell you.**

 

[planten]

Once a woman has sex, she is no longer a virgin. Once a man has sex, he is no longer a virgin. A person who is a virgin and marrage and only has sex with their spouse is no longer a virgin, but they are living a chaste life with the marital exclusion.

I have never heard the logic that allows a woman to have sex and no longer be a virgin. What if her first husband dies and she remarries? How many men before she is not a virgin?

He said he would die and rise again. There you go calling him a lier.

Amazing that this thread is now off-topic

Yes, thanks, you have tried to define virginity and I have noted your reply. But I may not agree with it entirely. It may be partially true.

 

[Angelos]

**Nobody is decieving me. Jesus was for the Jews only. He was their promised Messiah. They rejected him. That is the end of Jesus. There is no need to take his message to the world. Please take it back to the Jews again. Muhammad is not your enemy. And you should not be his enemy.

Try to read the Quran as you wish that Muslims read the bible. But remember that Jesus was for the Jews only. His mission was only for the Jews and he was a messenger to the children of Israel, under the command of the prophet Moses a.s.

Jesus was not an independent prophet. He was the last prophet in the long line of other prophets acting under the orders of Moses a.s. He was the last prophet for the Israelis. After that no prophet was to appear amongst the Jews.

If you want to know more about Jesus then we will tell you.**

This post by Planten illustrates how Muslims try to deceive and mislead Christians by ignoring certain facts in the new Testament and spreading lies about Christ through the deliberate perversion of the Gospels.

 

[planten]

This post by Planten illustrates how Muslims try to deceive and mislead Christians by ignoring certain facts in the new Testament and spreading lies about Christ through the deliberate perversion of the Gospels.

**You should discuss things step by step.

1. Do you deny that Jesus was for the Jews?
2. Do you deny that he was their promised Messiah?
3. Do you deny that Jews were waiting for their promised Messiah?
4. Do you deny that the Jews are still waiting for the arrival of their promised Messiah?
5. Do you deny that the initial preaching of Jesus was directed strictly to the Jews?
6. Do you deny that Jesus forbade his disciples to preach to any non-Jew?

I feel that correct answers tot he above six questions will give you some insight into the real role of Jesus which you seem to have modified.
It does not mean that Jesus was wrong or he did anything wrong. He was perfect man and prophet. No mistakes. But church has lost all contact with real role of Jesus.**

 

[Angelos]

**You should discuss things step by step.

1. Do you deny that Jesus was for the Jews?
2. Do you deny that he was their promised Messiah?
3. Do you deny that Jews were waiting for their promised Messiah?
4. Do you deny that the Jews are still waiting for the arrival of their promised Messiah?
5. Do you deny that the initial preaching of Jesus was directed strictly to the Jews?
6. Do you deny that Jesus forbade his disciples to preach to any non-Jew?

I feel that correct answers tot he above six questions will give you some insight into the real role of Jesus which you seem to have modified.

It does not mean that Jesus was wrong or he did anything wrong. He was perfect man and prophet. No mistakes. But church has lost all contact with real role of Jesus.**

This is one of your several faulty presumptions. The only thing you Muslims can do is to blame Jesus and His Church for the mistaken teachings of your scripture.

1. I do not deny that Jesus was born as a Jew and accomplished His prophetic mission in Israel. However, I also do not deny that He became the universal Savior by dying on the cross for the sins of the mankind.
2. Jesus is not the Messiah for the Jews only although He was promised to the Jews in the Old Testament. If you believe that Jesus is the Messiah, He is also YOUR Messiah even though you are neither Jewish nor an Israeli.
3. Yes, Jews waited for their promised Messiah. What is wrong with that?
4. This is irrelevant and pointless. We know that many of the Jews of the first century believed in Jesus as their Messiah and followed Him. They were called Christians.
5. I do not deny this. Jesus addressed the Jews not because of His supposed local message, but because of the fact that Israel was God’s elected. The same Jesus asked His disciples to take His message to the whole world after His resurrection.
6. I deny any teaching that ignores Jesus’ final commandment to His disciples in the Gospels. The Gospel is preached first to Jews, then to the Gentiles. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Analyzer]

This is one of your several faulty presumptions. The only thing you Muslims can do is to blame Jesus and His Church for the mistaken teachings of your scripture.

**Clearly you are don’t pay attention to what Islam and Muslims say.

No muslim is a muslim if he blame any prophet/messenger of God. Period. So there is no way that Islam/Muslim will blame Jesus Christ (pbuh).

Muslims actually blame the MISUNDERSTADINGS of all of your Churches/Denominations/Sects who in their mind are following Jesus Christ, when the fact of the matter is they basically follow St. Saul/Paul.**

 

[Angelos]

**Clearly you are don’t pay attention to what Islam and Muslims say.

No muslim is a muslim if he blame any prophet/messenger of God. Period. So there is no way that Islam/Muslim will blame Jesus Christ (pbuh).

Muslims actually blame the MISUNDERSTADINGS of all of your Churches/Denominations/Sects who in their mind are following Jesus Christ, when the fact of the matter is they basically follow St. Saul/Paul.**

What you Muslims do not want to understand is that you actually blame God and His Christ whenever you slander Christ’s Church and one of His apostles. You always attack the Church and spread lies about the Gospels solely because the New Testament does not conform to the wishful thinking and man-made ideology of your pagan prophet.