Islam and Heaven or paradise, do women go where men go when they die?

[moozo]

Don’t you have a better explanation then this? If they are taken out of context then explain here what the context is that makes those hadiths justifiable. don’t just give us a link to read.

do you wanna me copy texts of haddiths and explanations and verses referring to ,plus explanation here ?why dont you just click on the link

 

[moozo]

Hiroshima… After a battle Muhammad had 900 men beheaded and all of the women and children sold into slavery after he and his men raped the women. The only reason it was only 900 men is that the population was much smaller in those days in that area.

The USA was fighting a defensive war against an enemy who had attacked us, who had already brutally raped and slaughtered millions of people. The stated intent of the Japanese people was to destroy us… we did what people do… it is our obligation to protect ourselves. Our leaders had the choice of allowing the fight to continue at the risk of losing a projected million or more of our people and at least that many Japanese. The bombs at Hiroshima, etc, ended the war with far fewer deaths.

It’s so easy to sit here as arm chair critics at our terminals and second guess the people who had to make some pretty hard decisions. When you are faced with such decisions and you make better choices I’ll give your criticism more credence.

As for Muhammad… did he follow the teachings of Christ? No … the threw out the teachings of Christ. He was as false prophet who used religion to gain power, personal wealth and women.

first those 900 men were fighting muslims and broke convey with the prophet ,so its justified while in case of ppl of hiroshima i think those who died were civilian

go and see what your bible approve Numbers 31:7-18

They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings – Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba – died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.
Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.

 

[Eden]

Well, in my view it is a characterisation clearly based on some rather nasty personal prejudice and religious hatred, rather than a fair and balanced analysis and detailed knowledge of Islam, its history, and its contributions to history, as well as its periods of barbarism, decline, and the causes of its modern turmoil. If you are going to make arguments they need to be supported by decent evidence, rather than simply assertions of personal opinions and hatreds.

My personal opinions are based on my research and study of Islam as well as discussions with Muslims and ex-Muslims. You don’t like my conclusions about Islam, but you’ll have to accept that I have a right to draw them in this free society of mine.

 

[Eden]

I agree it would be foolish to ignore the valuable work the CC does, but Islam, Judaism, Buddhism and other religions, as well as many secular organisations such as Oxfam, Doctors without Borders, Amnesty International and many others do exactly the same things you say the CC does above. In Islam it is obligatory for people to give a certain percentage of their income for charitable causes (the zakat tax) and also Islam is very concerned for social justice and fair protection of widows, orphans, and the poor. Islam, like the CC, is also very conservative morally and opposes contraception, abortion, and homosexuality, and firmly defends the notion of marriage and stable families. Both religions actually share much of the same moral thinking and base it on similar assumptions about divine commandments and law.

Clearly your hatred of Muslims and Islam is blinding you to the good that exists in that faith, just as the hatred of Islamic jihadists blinds them to the good in the Christian faith and in other religions.

You attacked the history of the Catholic Church, so I responded in kind about the Catholic Church. I wasn’t ignoring Doctors without Borders, et. al., you simply didn’t bring them up for mention in your first post. This is simply a poor tactic to divert attention away from the discussion about Islam on your part.

To clear up some of your errors, there is no universal ban on abortion in Islam, there is no single teaching on contraception in Islam but eight of the nine classic schools of Islamic law permit it and the penalty for committing homosexual acts in Islamic law is death. Compare that to the Catholic Church’s teaching on homosexuality:

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. [They do not choose their homosexual condition; for most of them it is a trial.] This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
note: bold text substituted for bracketed text on 8 September 1997 by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, successor to the Holy Inquisition
2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

Honestly, I don’t know how a decent, thoughtful person can see anything similar between the messages of Christ and Muhammed. I really don’t.

 

[hosemonkey]

Well, in my view it is a characterisation clearly based on some rather nasty personal prejudice and religious hatred, rather than a fair and balanced analysis and detailed knowledge of Islam, its history, and its contributions to history, as well as its periods of barbarism, decline, and the causes of its modern turmoil. If you are going to make arguments they need to be supported by decent evidence, rather than simply assertions of personal opinions and hatreds.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it is probably a duck.

If it looks like a terrorist, walks like a terrorist and talks like a terrorist, it is probably a moslem. There are very few Baptist terrorists (last that I heard).

 

[BelFarfalla]

do you wanna me copy texts of haddiths and explanations and verses referring to ,plus explanation here ?why dont you just click on the link

I went to the web page you posted. It did not address the individual Hadiths directly but instead gave a lot of general info.

For example… in response to the Hadiths about hell being filled with women it pointed to lectures give by … oh I forget his name… that nut case Islamic preacher… They were ranting nonsense about the supposed rights of women in Islam. They did not address specifically the posted hadiths.

If you can address each of the hadiths one by one and give an explaination that would help. otherwise they stand as posted.

Further… EVERYONE BE WARNED…. i went to that link and started reading things that it linked to and it was not long before by computer had a virus. It has taken me a while to recover my computer from the attack.

 

[hosemonkey]

Is this moozo or bozo or whatever his name is, ahmadhassan’s latest incarnation? Do the moderators allow this flying of false colors? His style of ignorance is very distinctive and easy to spot. His standard rejoinder seems to be “prove”. I had ahmadhassan on my ignore list, but here he comes again.

 

[BelFarfalla]

Is this moozo or bozo or whatever his name is, ahmadhassan’s latest incarnation? Do the moderators allow this flying of false colors? His style of ignorance is very distinctive and easy to spot. His standard rejoinder seems to be “prove”. I had ahmadhassan on my ignore list, but here he comes again.

No doubt its ahmadhassan latest hand puppet as someone else called all his names. He’s been banned again.

 

[hosemonkey]

latimes.com/features/religion/la-fg-christians27jun27,1,7872755.story?coll=la-news-religion&ctrack=1&cset=true

Follow this link for an interesting look at moslem “Tolerance” in Iraq. Christians are being systematically persecuted in Iraq by being offered three choices. Pay a “tax”, convert to mohammedanism or leave. The alternative seems to be either death or destitution. Peaceful moslems?

 

[BelFarfalla]

latimes.com/features/religion/la-fg-christians27jun27,1,7872755.story?coll=la-news-religion&ctrack=1&cset=true

Follow this link for an interesting look at moslem “Tolerance” in Iraq. Christians are being systematically persecuted in Iraq by being offered three choices. Pay a “tax”, convert to mohammedanism or leave. The alternative seems to be either death or destitution. Peaceful moslems?

Oh this cannot be true… not from the religion of peace and tolerance

 

[dolphinlove]

Oh this cannot be true… not from the religion of peace and tolerance

Of course it is a peaceful religion.
Do you remember the 1936 olympic games?? The nazi regime took their moment on the world stage to just show how peaceful they are also…

 

[Mirdath]

How is it so many of you have so much free time to hate? Do you have nothing better to do than belittle and slander Christianity’s younger sibling?

With this much time on your hands, how can you not be bothered to actually learn about Islam, or to meet and get to know a few of the billion or so Muslims who aren’t fanatics? Is it merely that you are too lazy to amend your ignorance, or too afraid to admit that there might be good people who are not like you – or are you just reveling in your hatred?

As some of you roll your eyes at the description of Islam as a religion of peace, you are making me start to wonder if I shouldn’t do the same when I hear Christianity described as a religion of love. Have Jesus’ teachings really come to this?

 

[dolphinlove]

How is it so many of you have so much free time to hate? Do you have nothing better to do than belittle and slander Christianity’s younger sibling?

With this much time on your hands, how can you not be bothered to actually learn about Islam, or to meet and get to know a few of the billion or so Muslims who aren’t fanatics? Is it merely that you are too lazy to amend your ignorance, or too afraid to admit that there might be good people who are not like you – or are you just reveling in your hatred?

As some of you roll your eyes at the description of Islam as a religion of peace, you are making me start to wonder if I shouldn’t do the same when I hear Christianity described as a religion of love. Have Jesus’ teachings really come to this?

before you start calling us haters etc, i think you should read a few postings before you start making judgements.
You will find most of us actually do have friends that from Islam, and most of us respect them, but not their beliefs.
I think you should read a bit more into islam before you state such things.
We do not hate, we only merely defend what we believe.

 

[BelFarfalla]

How is it so many of you have so much free time to hate? Do you have nothing better to do than belittle and slander Christianity’s younger sibling?

With this much time on your hands, how can you not be bothered to actually learn about Islam, or to meet and get to know a few of the billion or so Muslims who aren’t fanatics? Is it merely that you are too lazy to amend your ignorance, or too afraid to admit that there might be good people who are not like you – or are you just reveling in your hatred?

As some of you roll your eyes at the description of Islam as a religion of peace, you are making me start to wonder if I shouldn’t do the same when I hear Christianity described as a religion of love. Have Jesus’ teachings really come to this?

So you believe that we should not stand up to people who clearly state here on the forum that: adulterers should be executed, those who leave Islam should be executed, those who insult Islam/Muhammad should be killed; men are allowed to beat their wives; it is right to deny religions freedom to people who believe differently then they do; it is right to execute gays; women cannot walk out of their homes without the permission (oft times written permission) of their husbands.

Do you really think that we should not stand up against these beliefs that are actual laws of Islam and practiced in many countries. That we should not stand up against persecution of non-Muslims living under in Muslim countries?

 

[dolphinlove]

So you believe that we should not stand up to people who clearly state here on the forum that: adulterers should be executed, those who leave Islam should be executed, those who insult Islam/Muhammad should be killed; men are allowed to beat their wives; it is right to deny religions freedom to people who believe differently then they do; it is right to execute gays; women cannot walk out of their homes without the permission (oft times written permission) of their husbands.

Do you really think that we should not stand up against these beliefs that are actual laws of Islam and practiced in many countries. That we should not stand up against persecution of non-Muslims living under in Muslim countries?

ditto

 

[BelFarfalla]

ditto

By the way, I do know Muslims who would be just as strong about removing those things from Islam as I and others have been.

 

[Mirdath]

before you start calling us haters etc, i think you should read a few postings before you start making judgements.

I have.

You will find most of us actually do have friends that from Islam, and most of us respect them, but not their beliefs.

One would think you would, considering they worship the same God you do, however dark the glass they see through. I don’t believe in your God, yet I respect your faith; you follow one you claim is Love incarnate, yet you cannot do the same?

We do not hate, we only merely defend what we believe.

And the best defense is a good offense, I see.

BelFarfalla:

Do you really think that we should not stand up against these beliefs that are actual laws of Islam and practiced in many countries. That we should not stand up against persecution of non-Muslims living under in Muslim countries?

Of course not, just as I stand up against your rules I think misguided or abhorrent, and hope you get over them just as much as you hope Muslims get over theirs. I do not expect Catholics to settle down with evil any more than I do; but I do expect discourse to be on a slightly higher level than ‘Islam is a diabolical faith inspired by Satan’ and other fine examples of respectful debate and thoughtful discussion showcased in this thread and others.

 

[hosemonkey]

I have.

One would think you would, considering they worship the same God you do, however dark the glass they see through. I don’t believe in your God, yet I respect your faith; you follow one you claim is Love incarnate, yet you cannot do the same?

And the best defense is a good offense, I see.

Of course not, just as I stand up against your rules I think misguided or abhorrent, and hope you get over them just as much as you hope Muslims get over theirs. I do not expect Catholics to settle down with evil any more than I do; but I do expect discourse to be on a slightly higher level than ‘Islam is a diabolical faith inspired by Satan’ and other fine examples of respectful debate and thoughtful discussion showcased in this thread and others.

I will have more respect for moslems when all those billion(?) rise up against those who kill mindlessly in the name of their religion. When they march in the streets in opposition to the violence perpetrated by their brethren. When they stop the persecution of Christians and Jews and stop treating women like chattel. You claim to be an agnostic. So what? You are merely just another kafir, to be either exploited or killed. Don’t preach to me about tolerance. Moslems have brought this world-wide condemnation upon themselves and it feeds their sense of inferiority. I will trust and respect them when they prove themselves worthy of trust and respect. They have declared war on Christians and Jews and the West. They say that they will bury us. Well, they had better get themselves a long shovel.

 

[Eden]

With this much time on your hands, how can you not be bothered to actually learn about Islam, or to meet and get to know a few of the billion or so Muslims who aren’t fanatics? Is it merely that you are too lazy to amend your ignorance, or too afraid to admit that there might be good people who are not like you – or are you just reveling in your hatred?

Speaking of getting to know good people who are not like you, can you explain why it is forbidden in Islam for Muslims to befriend non-Muslims?

As some of you roll your eyes at the description of Islam as a religion of peace, you are making me start to wonder if I shouldn’t do the same when I hear Christianity described as a religion of love. Have Jesus’ teachings really come to this?

We do not love the stoning of women for adultery, honor killings, the death penalty for ex-Muslims, threats of violence against people who draw cartoons or the evil minds of terrorists. I don’t know why you were under the impression that Christians loved these things.

 

[BelFarfalla]

Of course not, just as I stand up against your rules I think misguided or abhorrent, and hope you get over them just as much as you hope Muslims get over theirs.

So what rules of Catholicism do you find misguided and abhorrent? Who knows I just might agree with you on some or all of them. I’ve been known to take a stance against things in my own church that felt for wrong.
Years ago a priest told me that we are not to follow what the clergy tells us blindly. When we get to the pearly gates we will not be able to use the excuse that ‘the priest told me to do it’. He said that the responsibility was with each of us do the right thing. I agree with him 100%.

I do not expect Catholics to settle down with evil any more than I do; but I do expect discourse to be on a slightly higher level than ‘Islam is a diabolical faith inspired by Satan’ and other fine examples of respectful debate and thoughtful discussion showcased in this thread and others.

Let’s see… ‘Islam is a diabolical faith inspired by Satan’ is really right up there with the themes are Muslims friends have come here using… “The bible is a lie written by men to justify their sins.” The statements both mean the same thing. The fault is on all sides… not all loud arguments are bad, sometimes they get under people’s skins and make them think longer on a subject.