Islam and Original Sin

[Montalban]

The Koran touches upon the Genesis story of Adam and the forbidden tree…

[2.35] And We said: O Adam! Dwell you and your wife in the garden and eat from it a plenteous (food) wherever you wish and do not approach this tree, for then you will be of the unjust.

[7.19] And (We said): O Adam! Dwell you and your wife in the garden; so eat from where you desire, but do not go near this tree, for then you will be of the unjust.
…
[7.26] O children of Adam! We have indeed sent down to you clothing to cover your shame, and (clothing) for beauty and clothing that guards (against evil), that is the best. This is of the communications of Allah that they may be mindful.
[7.27] O children of Adam! let not the Shaitan cause you to fall into affliction as he expelled your parents from the garden, pulling off from them both their clothing that he might show them their evil inclinations, he surely sees you, he as well as his host, from whence you cannot see them; surely We have made the Shaitans to be the guardians of those who do not believe.

What ‘fall’ are they referring to? They ate the fruit…
[20.120] But the Shaitan made an evil suggestion to him; he said: O Adam! Shall I guide you to the tree of immortality and a kingdom which decays not?
[20.121] Then they both ate of it, so their evil inclinations became manifest to them, and they both began to cover themselves with leaves of the garden, and Adam disobeyed his Lord, so his life became evil (to him).

And the story of Cain and Able
[5.27] And relate to them the story of the two sons of Adam with truth when they both offered an offering, but it was accepted from one of them and was not accepted from the other. He said: I I will most certainly slay you. (The other) said: Allah only accepts from those who guard (against evil).

 

[inJESUS]

[7.27] O children of Adam! let not the **Shaitan **cause you to fall into affliction as he expelled your parents from the garden, pulling off from them both their clothing that he might show them their evil inclinations, he surely sees you, he as well as his host, from whence you cannot see them; surely We have made the Shaitans to be the guardians of those who do not believe.

= Original sin.

 

[De_Maria]

paarsurrey’s group aren’t representative of Islam - the major groups don’t think his group is Islamic

I guess that is what I mean. Osama bin Laden, as far as I am aware, a Sunni Muslim, is more representative of Islam than Paarsurrey.

 

[De_Maria]

24:22. And let not those among you who are blessed with graces and wealth swear not to give (any sort of help) to their kinsmen, Al-Masâkîn (the poor), and those who left their homes for Allâh’s Cause. **Let them pardon and forgive. Do you not love that Allâh should forgive you? **And Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

I assume this is the cleares statement you can find in the Quran. It isn’t very clear to me. It doesn’t say anything about requiring that you be forgiven before He will forgive you. But if that is how you interpret it, oh well.

Anyway I misunderstood. I thought you said that the Quran teaches that in order for Allah to forgive us, we must first forgive those who have offended us.

But this teaching is completely different. Apparently, as you interpret this verse you provided, Allah will not forgive the rich if the poor have not forgiven them. At least, that is how you put it.

                 Originally Posted by **Khalfan**                     [forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif](http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=2769334#post2769334)                 
               *It is exactly so. But in Islam, human realtion and problems should be resolved between humans itself before we go to God. God will not forgive us if we weren't forgiven by the wictim we sinned against.*

And so we see a clear difference. Allah will not forgive you if you have not been forgiven by the victim of your sin.

But in God’s case, God won’t forgive you if you don’t forgive your repentant brother.

To me, the more logical statement of this doctrine is the Catholic statement. Since Allah has allowed his hands to be tied by uneducated and perhaps spiteful people.

Thanks for the info.

See… you believe that. What we believe is, we do the sacrifice that you said.

Not the sacrifice that I said. You believe in a sacrifice of repentance. Sort of paying back the individual who you sinned against if possible. However, our sacrifice is expiatory. It is not only good for the sins we commit, but for the sins others committed.

It is as though Jesus Christ reproduces Himself in us.

Galatians 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

That is enough betweeen me and my God. There is no need of further payment by someone.

The prefer the way God treats us. He gives us the power to assist our fellow man materially and spiritually.

Touching fire or using cocain, both are sin against our body.

Perhaps in Islamic doctrine. But unless we are trying to commit suicide, touching fire is not a sin in Catholicism.

Fire gives the burn same time but cocain gives the burn in our internal organs slowely. Fire can give us the knowledge it should not be touched quickly. Cocain too can give us the knowledge not to use, if we know what it does inside our body. So, the tendency to sin, or to use drug, or to touch fire gets greater only if we don’t know what can result by that. That is where we have guidence of God. If we have the knowledge, we won’t approch any of it ever unless by accident.

God has put the punishment for touching fire immediately.

But sinning by becoming intoxicated with drugs is at first a pleasure and then a punishment. The addiction to the drug is so strong that one can’t become free until one falls on his knees before God. This is the wisdom of God to show men how much they need Him.

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[De_Maria]

why do Muslims kill animals as sacrifices? you’ll reply to live Abraham’s memory…well how strange that you remember him with sacrifices instead of something else yet you state “no need for sacrifices”. If no need then why do you kill millions of animals each year? just as imitation right?

why does Allah call a ram (sacrifice) something **GREAT **in the Quran? in what sense is the ram (sacrifice) great?

I thought I knew quite a bit about Islam, but first I’d heard about animal sacrifice.

Can you post more info?

 

[De_Maria]

is hitler representative of catholics?

Hitler was born in a Catholic family, but he left the faith and embraced a form of paganism. Hitler was trying to destroy Catholicism when he took power.

 

[inJESUS]

I thought I knew quite a bit about Islam, but first I’d heard about animal sacrifice.

Can you post more info?

the feast of Adha is when Muslims slaughter animals in “remembrance” of Abraham’s submission to God through this sacrifice.

Moreover, the Quran says that Allah substituted Abraham’s son with a GREAT sacrifice. From a Christian point of view it makes sense because Jesus is GREAT, but what is great about a ram in order for Allah to call it great?

We substituted it with a GREAT sacrifice
(al-Saffat 37:107)

 

[inJESUS]

Notice something very fascinating in Abraham’s sacrifice:

Abraham had said to his son, “God Himself **will provide ****the lamb **for the burnt offering, my son.” The story ends with a peculiar twist - Abraham sees an animal caught by its horns in the thicket and sacrifices it instead of his son. But what animal was it? A ram or a lamb? it was a ram. The Lamb is to be provided later

pierced for our transgressions … crushed for our iniquities … and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; **he was led like a lamb to the slaughter **… the Lord makes his life a guilt offering". (Isaiah 53)

Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world." (John 1:29)

 

[Montalban]

I thought I knew quite a bit about Islam, but first I’d heard about animal sacrifice.

Can you post more info?

How about this and this

Wiki says
Some Muslims will sacrifice an animal during the Festival of Sacrifice (Eid ul-Adha). Usually a sheep or goat is sacrificed then eaten during a feast, in commemoration of Ibrahim’s (Abraham’s) willingness to sacrifice his son Ismael for Allah.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_sacrifice#Islam

 

[inJESUS]

Yep so we see Muhammad picking and choosing stuff but changing their meaning. So instead of the sacrifice and atonement in OT, fulfilled in the NT, Muhammad renders it as a mere “test” to Abraham. His theology is so shallow that one wonders if he understood anything from previous scriptures.

 

[Montalban]

Yep so we see Muhammad picking and choosing stuff but changing their meaning. So instead of the sacrifice and atonement in OT, fulfilled in the NT, Muhammad renders it as a mere “test” to Abraham. His theology is so shallow that one wonders if he understood anything from previous scriptures.

Certainly he believed in a lot of strange things - such as the idea that Christians worship Mary as part of the Trinity.

It shows Muhammed lacked critical thought - and a desire to find out the truth