Islam and violence?

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Can I make a request? That if anyone quotes a verse from the Qur’an, like 9:5, you make sure you leave in the whole thing?

For example, this part is always left out… People are quick to say "The Qur’an tells Muslims to ‘kill the unbelievers’ but then they forget to add this part:
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but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.**

And this one, 9:6 If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge.
So, if they do not convert, it is okay to kill them. And if they ask for help, only give it to them on the condition that they convert. No problem. We will be sure to make sure that these ideas are conveyed in their entirety.
 
So, if they do not convert, it is okay to kill them. And if they ask for help, only give it to them on the condition that they convert. No problem. We will be sure to make sure that these ideas are conveyed in their entirety.
Way to go, making stuff up! I’m sure all the other readers are dubiously impressed, however I am not.

It is not okay to kill them. That’s what the Qur’an says–that it’s not okay to kill them. Help is offered not on the condition that they convert, only on the condition that they stop fighting. 👍
 
Everyone knows Christianity’s dark history. So when people refer to christianity’s better points, its most likely in referrence to contemporary times. 😃
Since the late 20th Century, you mean?
And I did say that Islam is like MEDIEVAL christianity. 😃
Bit like Christianity then? 😉
 
Way to go, making stuff up! I’m sure all the other readers are dubiously impressed, however I am not.

It is not okay to kill them. That’s what the Qur’an says–that it’s not okay to kill them. Help is offered not on the condition that they convert, only on the condition that they stop fighting. 👍
***009.005
YUSUFALI: But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
PICKTHAL: Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
SHAKIR: So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. ***

Here are 3 translations of the verse you refer to. The first half states that muslims should kill Idolators. Idolators means people who are not muslim, christian or jewish. Christians and Jews were given special treatment and were fought until they were made to feel subjugated as it states in 9:29. Idolators would be folks like hindus and zoroasterians (sp?) which muslims have slaughtered for centuries.

So the first half says to kill them. The condition for stop killing them is if the idolaters “repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate”. The terms keep up prayers means MUSLIM prayers and the poor rate refers to the Zakat, which only MUSLIMS have to pray.

Sister Amy your statement is wrong. Muslims are commanded by this verse to kill idolaters until they become muslims. That why the Hindu Kush mountain range is actually a pashtun word for “Hindu Slaughter”. It is a testament of muslim treatment of “idolaters” such as Hindus.
 
Why, was there still a Christian theocracy a hundred years before the 20th century?
As I said earlier, the Church was active in European politics until mid-20th century (third quarter in Spain and Portugal) and still is in Ireland (though it’s having a tougher time there) and Poland. Primordially (except in odd places like the Basque country of Spain) this has been on the ultra-right of the political spectrum.

Europe isn’t the United States and its history and culture are not the same as the United States - it is and was a real place where real things happen and happened quite differently from the United States. You can’t generalize from the experience of the United States and say ‘that’s what happened/is happening in Europe’.
 
As I said earlier, the Church was active in European politics until mid-20th century (third quarter in Spain and Portugal) and still is in Ireland (though it’s having a tougher time there) and Poland. Primordially (except in odd places like the Basque country of Spain) this has been on the ultra-right of the political spectrum.
Religion will always play some measure of influence in Politics. But religious political rulings are entirely different. Now I dont know when exactly church & state separated for good. Do you have something in mind?
 
Religion will always play some measure of influence in Politics. But religious political rulings are entirely different.
I’m not talking about ‘religious political rulings’, I’m talking about an active role in the politics of the countries involved, political parties, newspapers etc, etc, etc. - even ‘clerical’ governments.
 
I’m not talking about ‘religious political rulings’, I’m talking about an active role in the politics of the countries involved, political parties, newspapers etc, etc, etc.
You have something in particular?
 
Yes, it’s called ‘European History of the 20th Century’, it’s quite easy to look up and the books are quite readable, honestly.
can you be a little bit more specific? i’d hate going into a wild goosechase. :rolleyes:
 
As I said earlier, the Church was active in European politics until mid-20th century (third quarter in Spain and Portugal) and still is in Ireland (though it’s having a tougher time there) and Poland. Primordially (except in odd places like the Basque country of Spain) this has been on the ultra-right of the political spectrum.

Europe isn’t the United States and its history and culture are not the same as the United States - it is and was a real place where real things happen and happened quite differently from the United States. You can’t generalize from the experience of the United States and say ‘that’s what happened/is happening in Europe’.
So when priests were being jailed an executed for the crime of celebrating Mass without a permit in Portugal in 1916, the government was doing this by the command of the Pope?
 
So, this ‘medieval catholicism’ thing went on for quite a while then, since they kept trying and trying until the mid-20th century when they gave up except in odd places like Spain, Portugal (until the last quarter) and Ireland (and Poland again).

Took them a while to realize that it didn’t work then - you’d have thought they’d have noticed, really.
The Jewess defends Islam:rotfl:

Take a hike Kanichen.
 
I cannot properly explain my position on this. I will use the words of the Prophet Mohamed as record in the Quran instead. I especially like the last quote.

2:190-193 “Fight in the cause of God those who fight you … And slay them wherever ye catch them … And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression and there prevail justice and faith in God …”

2:216 “Fighting is prescribed for you and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But God knoweth and ye know not.”

2:224 “Then fight in the cause of God and know that God heareth and knoweth all things.”

4:95 "Not equal are those believers who sit at (at home) and receive no hurt and those who strive and fight in the cause of God with their goods and their persons. God hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than those who sit (at home).

4:101 “… For the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies.”

5:54 “O ye who believe. Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily God guideth not a people unjust.”

8:59-60 “Let not the unbelievers think that they can get the better (of the godly). They will never frustrate (them). Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies of God and your enemies and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom God doth know …”

8:65 “O apostle! Rouse the believers to the fight. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred. If a hundred they will vanquish a thousand of the unbelievers, for these are a people without understanding.”

9:5 “… fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war) …”

9:14 “Fight them, and God will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame …”

9:29 “Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and his apostle nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth (even if they are) of the people of the Book, until they pay the Jizya [religious tax] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.”

47:4 “Therefore, when ye meet the unbelievers, smite at their necks, at length when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them) … but if it had been God’s will, he could certainly have exacted retribution from them (himself), but (he lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the way of God, he will never let their deeds be lost.”

61:4 “Truly God loves those who fight in His cause in battle array, as if they were a solid cemented structure.”

Now a person may want to attack me for this post. However, I am not expressing my opinions here. I am only quoting the Quran (Koran). If you have a problem with these words, remember that I am not the source.
Please donot get idea what The Quran Sharif say so. It is very hard to understand its meaning.And only those person can understand it who studies it by Alim(knowledger). Few verses which i know i will tell you about it.Its hard to quote and than tell you.I will say so in a paragraph and than you will try to find out and relate to it.But you need to be Sixth Sense and know the history of islam to recognized what The Holy Quran is all about. Please see the movie “The Messenger”.

In some verses as its mentioned they talk about to fight with the unbeliever.and The Quran told us about that time people who reject and violent with Prophet Muhammad followers than angel Gabrieal or Jibreel came with verses from Allah/God and allowed to fight with them.Coz they are steal and killing there followers family and house.Prophet Muhammad PBUH didn’t tell to fight untill the verses come from Jibreel/Gabriel(angle).What ever Prophet Muhammad said or do its not from him its from Allah/God the one and only Allah/God. I hope i clear your answer.halaluiya oopss.Astagfirullah (God forgive me).i hope you get the idea about The Quran Sharif. Believe me its cool Religion.One of the fast growing religion.And donot think about verses from The Quran and say so you have to be a scholar and know about Islam history.Bye Bye…
 
Hey, you keep making up European history as you go along as the need suits, only us Europeans will notice.
You mentioned the Europeans, not me. Too bad you dont know youre own as much as youd like. Tough luck, buddy. 😃
 
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