Islam and Violence

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IvanKaramozov

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So,

A friend of mine played internet poker with FaceBook(not seriously) andyway, she’s Muslim and joked to me “If only gambling wasen’t a sin”(as she is quite good at it it turnes out).

Anyway, I forget the exact conversation, but she mentioned that any Muslim who converts from Islam, has three days to convert back, and after that they may be killed.

Anyway, while I love my Muslim friends, I am sometimes a bit disturbed by what seems like violence in Islam. I will admit that I am ignorant of Islam, I have skimmed the Koran, and a few Islamic Philosophy articles(though not much on the Theology and textual analysis in Islam) and that’s about all I know.

So my main question to Muslims here, or anyone who would know(please no Propaganda or non-sense), is what is the relation between Islam and violence. Are faithful Muslims religiously compelled to fight in Jihad aghinst non-muslims. When is violence justified in Islam.

I think you get the idea.

Articles are fine, but please respectiable sources
 
IvanKaramozov said:
So my main question to Muslims here, or anyone who would know(please no Propaganda or non-sense), is what is the relation between Islam and violence. Are faithful Muslims religiously compelled to fight in Jihad aghinst non-muslims. When is violence justified in Islam.
Click to expand...
Hi

Islam is a peaceful religion. There is no violence in Islam. Those who preach violence are not true Muslims or they have not understood Quran/Islam/Muhammad correctly.

I would suggest you to read the following articles.
• Jihad - Supreme Efforts in the Way of Allah alislam.org/jihad/quran.html
• Jihad of the Pen alislam.org/library/links/00000064.html
• Jihad with Sword alislam.org/jihad/sword.html

Thanks
 
Paar,
I admire your opinion on this and I feel tha tI hav elearned from you. In this matter, why are there death penalties imposed for leaving Islam? I know that these countries base it on Shiara law, is that correct? Secondly, if Islam is peaceful, why don;t the peaceful faction do more to stop the violent sects?
 
I’m not sure is that’s correct. it appears that some muslim sects or denominations are violent, and they are supported by certain muslim scriptures. So I think some faithful muslims are violent because of the the teachings of their preachers. Islam seems to use religion to justify violence more than other religions.
 
ralphinal said:
In this matter, why are there death penalties imposed for leaving Islam?
Click to expand...
Hi

The violent people are mislead people, they are short-sighted power-hungry people .

There in no death penalty imposed for leaving Islam.

Quran
[5:55] O ye who believe! whoso among you turns back from his Religion, then let him know that Allah will soon bring in his stead a people whom He will love and who will love Him and who will be kind and humble to the believers, and hard and firm against the disbelievers. They will strive in the cause of Allah and will not fear the reproach of a fault-finder. That is Allah’s grace; He bestows it upon whomsoever He pleases and Allah is Bountiful, All-Knowing.
Unquote

The violent people need to know more about teachings of Quran/Islam/Muhammad and for that effort is being made. This effort should also be peaceful, peace begets peace and violence begets violence.

Thanks
 
Paar,
How is this done? Do the different sects of Islam communicate? How about the violence between Sunni and Shia? How can that be avoided? I know that you saw that there is not supposed to be the death penalty for leaving, but it is imposed. How is this justified?
 
IvanKaramozov said:
So,

A friend of mine played internet poker with FaceBook(not seriously) andyway, she’s Muslim and joked to me “If only gambling wasen’t a sin”(as she is quite good at it it turnes out).

Anyway, I forget the exact conversation, but she mentioned that any Muslim who converts from Islam, has three days to convert back, and after that they may be killed.

Anyway, while I love my Muslim friends, I am sometimes a bit disturbed by what seems like violence in Islam. I will admit that I am ignorant of Islam, I have skimmed the Koran, and a few Islamic Philosophy articles(though not much on the Theology and textual analysis in Islam) and that’s about all I know.

So my main question to Muslims here, or anyone who would know(please no Propaganda or non-sense), is what is the relation between Islam and violence. Are faithful Muslims religiously compelled to fight in Jihad aghinst non-muslims. When is violence justified in Islam.

I think you get the idea.

Articles are fine, but please respectiable sources
Click to expand...
Well, jihad is not violent by necessity. Many equate jihad, or rather translate jihad as “holy war,” but this is incorrect. It is actually translated “struggle.” This jihad is fought by all practicing Muslims. Now you may be thinking I am saying all Muslims are violent, but I am not. Jihad is first and foremost a spiritual struggle–one that is fought everyday by a Muslim. What the media has spread is that jihad is a physical war against the West. This is not correct; however, and is only propaganda to spread fear and hate. There is an element of physical jihad when fellow Muslims are under persecution and one can see this can be open to interpretation…

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius:cool:
 
ralphinal said:
Paar,
How is this done? Do the different sects of Islam communicate? How about the violence between Sunni and Shia? How can that be avoided? I know that you saw that there is not supposed to be the death penalty for leaving, but it is imposed. How is this justified?
Click to expand...
Hi

A wrong is a wrong that cannot be justified and one should not try justifying it. The wrongdoers would suffer in this world and in the hereafter. So it is better if they correct themselves.

I am for Unity among every religion. I would like one United Christendum, as I would like one United Islam or one United Hinduism or Buddhism. This would remove a lot of confusion in the religious world and it would make easy to get to the truth; and I think truth is GodAllahYHWH.

Thanks
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi

A wrong is a wrong that cannot be justified and one should not try justifying it. The wrongdoers would suffer in this world and in the hereafter. So it is better if they correct themselves.

I am for Unity among every religion. I would like one United Christendum, as I would like one United Islam or one United Hinduism or Buddhism. This would remove a lot of confusion in the religious world and it would make easy to get to the truth; and I think truth is GodAllahYHWH.

Thanks
Click to expand...
Paar,
How is this to be accopmlished? How will people unify?
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi

Islam is a peaceful religion. There is no violence in Islam. Those who preach violence are not true Muslims or they have not understood Quran/Islam/Muhammad correctly.

I would suggest you to read the following articles.
• Jihad - Supreme Efforts in the Way of Allah alislam.org/jihad/quran.html
• Jihad of the Pen alislam.org/library/links/00000064.html
• Jihad with Sword alislam.org/jihad/sword.html

Thanks
Click to expand...
For the record paarsurrey belongs to a sect of islam called the Ahmadi. They are considered heretics by mainstream (i.e. read majority) muslms. Just as the Sikhs and Nation of Islam in the US are. I think it is great the Ahmadi are bastardizing islam into a peaceful religion; if they are doing this. More muslims need to do this. I don’t think Mr. paarsurrey represents the majority of muslims and definitely does not represent the 4 schools of islamic jurisprudence.

Read more here (check the references if you like)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmadiyya

As for islam being violent, it is. Islam means submission not peace. The only peace there is in islam is when islam reigns supreme over the world and all other religions are either destroyed or subjugated. There is a constant war against dar al islam (house of submission) and dar al harb (house of war, i.e non-muslims) until islam wins. Every act of violence against non-muslims can be justified as self defense because anything that is not islam is a threat to islam and therefore an attack on islam. So me being a peaceful Catholic is a legitimate target because my existance does not further islam.

Just read the quran and the hadiths. These are the two primary sources that islamic teachings and law are based on. Also check out a book called Reliance of the Traveller which can be found on Amazon for about $15. It is a handbook of sharia law written by muslims for muslims and is very enlighting as to the nature of islam. In there you will find, among other things, that you can be legally killed for apostasy. Apostasy is defined as multiple things such as converting to sarcastically saying “Allah”

Also check out Bloggin the quran. Robert Spencer is going through the quran Sura by Sura explaing how muslims have interperted the passages historically and today. Especially check out the one on Sura 9. This is essentially a handbook on how to make war on us kuffir, or non-muslim scum. Good luck and God bless.

Bloggin the Quran:
jihadwatch.org/articles/bloggingtheq.php

You can find 3 translations of the quran here:
usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/

Here is the collections of Hadiths.
usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/

This one quotes Muhammed as saying:
“Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.” (Bukhari, vol. 9, book 88, no.6922)
This is one of the hadiths that justifies the killing of apostates.
 
ralphinal said:
Paar,
How is this to be accopmlished? How will people unify?
Click to expand...
Hi

That is God’s plan, we must all submit to it. If we believe in the Oneness of God, what is its use if we remain divided. We must unite in truth and not compromise with falsehood while remaining peaceful within and without.

Quran

[2:213] The life of this world is made to appear attractive to those who disbelieve; and they scoff at those who believe. But those who fear God shall be above them on the day of Resurrection; and Allah bestows His gifts on whomsoever He pleases without reckoning.
[2:214] Mankind were one community, then they differed among themselves, **so Allah raised Prophets as bearers of good tidings and as warners, and sent down with them the book containing the truth that He might judge between the people wherein they differed. But then they began to differ about the Book, and none differed about it except those to whom it was given, after clear Signs had come to them, out of envy towards one another. **Now has Allah, by His command, guided the believers to the truth in regard to which they (the unbelievers) differed; and Allah guides whomsoever He pleases to the right path.
[2:215] Do you think that you will enter heaven while there has not come to you the like of that which came to those who passed away before you? Poverty and afflictions befell them and they were violently shaken until the Messenger and those who believed along with him said, ‘When will the help of Allah come?’ Yea, surely the help of Allah is nigh.
Unquote

Thanks
 
Alexius said:
Well, jihad is not violent by necessity. Many equate jihad, or rather translate jihad as “holy war,” but this is incorrect. It is actually translated “struggle.” This jihad is fought by all practicing Muslims. Now you may be thinking I am saying all Muslims are violent, but I am not. Jihad is first and foremost a spiritual struggle–one that is fought everyday by a Muslim. What the media has spread is that jihad is a physical war against the West. This is not correct; however, and is only propaganda to spread fear and hate. There is an element of physical jihad when fellow Muslims are under persecution and one can see this can be open to interpretation…

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius:cool:
Click to expand...
Most often in practice Jihad has been a holy war. Just beacuse that is not the literal translation does not mean that it is not Holy War. This is another game of semantics muslims use to hide the truth.

Crusade is defined as a campaign: a series of actions advancing a principle or tending toward a particular end;

Hmmmm, I don’t see the words Holy War in there so therefore the crusades must have not been a Holy War. They were actually a peaceful interior struggle. :rolleyes:
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi

we must all submit to it.

This is the heart of the matter. For muslims submission can come by free will or forcing someone to do it by threating them with death or with imposing opperssive subjugation upon the via dhimmi status.
Click to expand...
 
For muslims submission can come by free will or forcing someone to do it by threating them with death or with imposing opperssive subjugation upon the via dhimmi status.
Click to expand...
Hi

I don’t think it is so. A Muslim must always promote and submit to/with peace. One who holds that it could be done forcibly is an unjust extremist, a wrongdoer. He must get himself corrected accordingly.

Quran

[89:28] O, thou soul at peace!
[89:29] Return to thy Lord, thou well-pleased with Him and He well-pleased with thee.
[89:30] So enter thou among My chosen servants,

Unquote

Thanks
 
I found this post and thought it was interesting:

Ahmadiyyat is an Islamic group that has international connections. Non-Ahmadi Muslims try to squash the movement because of the leadership. The international head of the movement interprets the Quran based on the life of Muhammad, on whom be peace, and the authentic examples recorded by the Islamic masters. He serves as a spiritual guide.
You won’t find Ahamdi Muslim leadership at war with other Muslims, siding with non-Muslim ideas for the sake of favors or starting an offensive war unless they are prevented from practicing the faith (as we have been directed by the founder of Islam, Muhammad ,on whom be peace).
Allah protects the jamaat because everytime the oposition wages a plot against Ahmadiyyat others recognize the steadfastness of the members and the converts rush in.
The oposition must oppose Ahmadiyyat because they too are duty bound by Allah to follow the Khalifa, or devine reformer of Islam, when he appears.
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi

I don’t think it is so. A Muslim must always promote and submit to/with peace. One who holds that it could be done forcibly is an unjust extremist, a wrongdoer. He must get himself corrected accordingly.

Quran

[89:28] O, thou soul at peace!
[89:29] Return to thy Lord, thou well-pleased with Him and He well-pleased with thee.
[89:30] So enter thou among My chosen servants,

Unquote

Thanks
Click to expand...
“Allah” say differently. Again the mainstream view of islam is a Sunni and Shia view. That is what most muslims in the world practice.

Quran 9:5
So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Quran 9:29
Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.
 
I have no problem with Muslims and their jihad within themselves. They can struggle with the devil or whatever they want, but don’t project those struggles to us, infidel.
 
IvanKaramozov said:
So,

A friend of mine played internet poker with FaceBook(not seriously) andyway, she’s Muslim and joked to me “If only gambling wasen’t a sin”(as she is quite good at it it turnes out).

Anyway, I forget the exact conversation, but she mentioned that any Muslim who converts from Islam, has three days to convert back, and after that they may be killed.

Anyway, while I love my Muslim friends, I am sometimes a bit disturbed by what seems like violence in Islam. I will admit that I am ignorant of Islam, I have skimmed the Koran, and a few Islamic Philosophy articles(though not much on the Theology and textual analysis in Islam) and that’s about all I know.

So my main question to Muslims here, or anyone who would know(please no Propaganda or non-sense), is what is the relation between Islam and violence. Are faithful Muslims religiously compelled to fight in Jihad aghinst non-muslims. When is violence justified in Islam.

I think you get the idea.

Articles are fine, but please respectiable sources
Click to expand...
Here’s a list of the intolerant teachings in the Quran.

Vickie
 
IvanKaramozov said:
So,

A friend of mine played internet poker with FaceBook(not seriously) andyway, she’s Muslim and joked to me “If only gambling wasen’t a sin”(as she is quite good at it it turnes out).

Anyway, I forget the exact conversation, but she mentioned that any Muslim who converts from Islam, has three days to convert back, and after that they may be killed.

Anyway, while I love my Muslim friends, I am sometimes a bit disturbed by what seems like violence in Islam. I will admit that I am ignorant of Islam, I have skimmed the Koran, and a few Islamic Philosophy articles(though not much on the Theology and textual analysis in Islam) and that’s about all I know.

So my main question to Muslims here, or anyone who would know(please no Propaganda or non-sense), is what is the relation between Islam and violence. Are faithful Muslims religiously compelled to fight in Jihad aghinst non-muslims. When is violence justified in Islam.

I think you get the idea.

Articles are fine, but please respectiable sources
Click to expand...
What division of Islam? Where does she live?
 
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