Islam and Violence

[thedavidwilson]

What division of Islam? Where does she live?

The killing of apostates is in Sharia Law which Sunni and Shia muslims adhere to. That is probably 90% of muslims. If a muslim disagrees with this then he disagrees with islamic teaching. It is great muslims would be bastardizing islam into a peaceful realigion, but that does not negate the fact that the majority of muslims still adhere to the violent teachings of islam.

 

[lhagan]

Here’s a list of the intolerant teachings in the Quran.

Vickie

You are gonna have to explain to God someday why you are spreading that page and I pray God can forgive.

 

[Booklover]

You are gonna have to explain to God someday why you are spreading that page and I pray God can forgive.

Those teachings come straight from the Quran, the book that Muslims consider the Word of God! You can find those same items on Muslim websites!

What is your problem? :hypno:

Vickie

 

[redmars3000]

You are gonna have to explain to God someday why you are spreading that page and I pray God can forgive.

Keep in my mind your reactions and comments are watched closely by us who are not muslim because we seek to know what the average muslim thinks…

Please try to make statements with some evidence backing them and not idle threats against people.

 

[thedavidwilson]

Those teachings come straight from the Quran, the book that Muslims consider the Word of God! You can find those same items on Muslim websites!

What is your problem? :hypno:

Vickie

His problem is that we are exposing islam for the violent, intolerant lie that it is. The devil loves and is comfortable in darkness and deceit, and despises the light of truth.

John 14:6 Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me.

 

[Booklover]

His problem is that we are exposing islam for the violent, intolerant lie that it is. The devil loves and is comfortable in darkness and deceit, and despises the light of truth.

John 14:6 Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me.

Vickie

 

[lhagan]

Keep in my mind your reactions and comments are watched closely by us who are not muslim because we seek to know what the average muslim thinks…

Please try to make statements with some evidence backing them and not idle threats against people.

I’m actually not a Muslim. But you are right I wasn’t thinking about that reply. It just disgusted me to see. Anybody can compile a list of the others faults and call them the devil. That doesn’t make your point intelligible. I just want to see some real arguments. Almost everybody brings up things specifically to make Islam look bad. I bring up equivalents and I’m a lame devil. What kinda intelligent debate is that? I actually agree with the Catholic beliefs but the behavior/character of the Catholic Church turns me away from conversion. They keep using the word intolerable and I wonder, do they actually read what they say to people of other religions?

 

[thedavidwilson]

I’m actually not a Muslim. But you are right I wasn’t thinking about that reply. It just disgusted me to see. Anybody can compile a list of the others faults and call them the devil. That doesn’t make your point intelligible. I just want to see some real arguments. Almost everybody brings up things specifically to make Islam look bad. I bring up equivalents and I’m a lame devil. What kinda intelligent debate is that? I actually agree with the Catholic beliefs but the behavior/character of the Catholic Church turns me away from conversion. They keep using the word intolerable and I wonder, do they actually read what they say to people of other religions?

Intolerance is OK for some things:

“Tolerance does not apply to truth or principles. About these things we must be intolerant, and for this kind of intolerance, so much needed to rouse us from sentimental gush, I make a plea. Intolerance of this kind is the foundation of stability.”

• His Excellency Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen, Servant of God

There is a systematic structure in islam that seeks to kill/subjugate non-believers until they convert. This denies the free will which is a sin against God. I believe that link just listed what Islam says. You can fill pages with quotes from the quran and hadith that are violent and against natural law. These are not out of context. These are the teachings of islam and that is the Truth.

 

[paarsurrey]

There is a systematic structure in islam that seeks to kill/subjugate non-believers until they convert. This denies the free will which is a sin against God.

Hi

I beg to differ.

Islam/Quran/Muhammad are absolutely peaceful and love dialogue and respect humanity, that is what I understand. If one does not follow the context in which a thing has been said, one can draw wrong conclusions, provide the correct context and the matter would be resolved and one would reach the truth.

There is no harm in trying that.

Quran
[8:39] Say to those who disbelieve, if they desist, that which is past will be forgiven them; and if they return to their misdeeds, then verily the example of the former peoples has already gone before them.
[8:40] And fight them until there is no persecution and religion is wholly to Allah.* But if they desist, then surely Allah is Watchful of what they do.
[8:41] And if they turn back, then know that Allah is your Protector - an excellent protector and an excellent Helper!
Unquote

• that is of free will

Thanks

 

[thedavidwilson]

Hi

I beg to differ.

Islam/Quran/Muhammad are absolutely peaceful and love dialogue and respect humanity, that is what I understand. If one does not follow the context in which a thing has been said, one can draw wrong conclusions, provide the correct context and the matter would be resolved and one would reach the truth.

There is no harm in trying that.

Quran
[8:39] Say to those who disbelieve, if they desist, that which is past will be forgiven them; and if they return to their misdeeds, then verily the example of the former peoples has already gone before them.
[8:40] And fight them until there is no persecution and religion is wholly to Allah.* But if they desist, then surely Allah is Watchful of what they do.
[8:41] And if they turn back, then know that Allah is your Protector - an excellent protector and an excellent Helper!
Unquote

• that is of free will

Thanks

paarsurrey does your sect of islam apply the concept of aborgation to islamic scripture? Perhaps you can explain your sect’s application of it and the use of it by suni and shia. I think that is very relevant to the context of islamic scripture and our discussion here.

 

[Booklover]

Hi

I beg to differ.

Islam/Quran/Muhammad are absolutely peaceful and love dialogue and respect humanity, that is what I understand. If one does not follow the context in which a thing has been said, one can draw wrong conclusions, provide the correct context and the matter would be resolved and one would reach the truth.

There is no harm in trying that.

How can you keep stating this, when Muhammad had people assassinated simply for writing satyrical poems about him??

Why do you not acknowledge the evil things he did?

Vickie

 

[MugenOne]

I.E.

In 624 two Arab poets, an old man and a young mother of five were assassinated in their sleep for insulting the prophet. Most sources agree that the murders of Abu Afak and Asma bint Marwan were carried out with Muhammad’s blessings, even though their poetry only ridicule and satire. In the same year, the Qaynuqah were expelled and Muhammad ordered the assassination of Ka’b Ibn Ashraf, a poet and Nadir chief who was trying to garner up support among the Meccans for deposing Muhammad.

How can you keep stating this, when Muhammad had people assassinated simply for writing satyrical poems about him??

Why do you not acknowledge the evil things he did?

Vickie

 

[IvanKaramozov]

What division of Islam? Where does she live?

Sunni and born in Palistine

 

[christian1914]

Hi

There in no death penalty imposed for leaving Islam.

Ummm…forgive me if I may offend you but perhaps you’re just blinde by your faith…Have you heard of the Iranian man who converted to Christianity from Islam? He was imprisoned for 10 years then afterwards was given the death penalty, and all of that just because he converted to Christianity…You people also say that there’s no coercion in Islam, what do you call that (Iranian man case) then? Tsk…tsk…man action speaks louder than words…

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

His problem is that we are exposing islam for the violent, intolerant lie that it is. The devil loves and is comfortable in darkness and deceit, and despises the light of truth.

John 14:6 Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me.

AFAICS, Islam is a religion of peace - as long as one understands what “peace” means.​

Islam is like Communism or Fundamentalism - these movements use words ideologically. Communist peace is peace that is advantageous to Communism; which is not necessarily what a non-Communist would understand by the word. “Aggression” is what others indulge in - Communists are incapable of aggression, because the ideology is self-justifying: good, is measured by what serves Communism. Invading the Baltic states was not aggressive - unlike Hitler’s invasion of Russia, which was; he was not serving the interests of the Party, so he was wrong to do what Stalin rightly did.

ISTM that Islamists think in the same way: truth might be what an outsider would regard as a lie - but if one defines language within one’s ideology & for its benefit, one can lie in good conscience: because one’s ethics comes from one’s ideology; so one’s lie (as an outsider would see it) is really the truth. There is no coercion in Islam - what looks like it to us, is not thought of as such; therefore, what we call coercion is an illusion or a slander on our part. Coercion would exist in Islam only if it were admitted to - its status is that of what Orwell would call (IIRC) an Unthought. As we are not really Muslims, our opinions don’t (AFAIK) count for anything.

If this is correct, Islamic peace is peaceful by Islamic standards - but not necessarily by those of outsiders. That kind of peace is perfectly compatible with what outsiders would regard as terrorism, rioting & murder. So when Islamists claim their religion is peaceful, they are being perfectly truthful - the fault is in those foolish enough to forget the ideological use use of language by Communists & others.

 

[Volodymyr]

So,

I will admit that I am ignorant of Islam, I have skimmed the Koran, and a few Islamic Philosophy articles(though not much on the Theology and textual analysis in Islam) and that’s about all I know.

So my main question to Muslims here, or anyone who would know(please no Propaganda or non-sense), is what is the relation between Islam and violence. A

Articles are fine, but please respectiable sources

Interesting because you are call yourself Ivan Karamozov so close to name Иван Карамазов - герой Достоеского романа - (Ivan Karamazov) so you must often be confused with him. But if you are Russian speaking you would benefit to read V. S Solov’jov’s Mahomet - his life and religious teaching. This is found at below internet sait:

vehi.net/soloviev/magomet/index.html

If you do not speaking Russian, perhaps can find it in English. This is book with direct translation of Koran - very good I am told by Orientalists.

 

[paarsurrey]

So my main question to Muslims here, or anyone who would know(please no Propaganda or non-sense), is what is the relation between Islam and violence. Are faithful Muslims religiously compelled to fight in Jihad aghinst non-muslims. When is violence justified in Islam.

I think you get the idea.

Articles are fine, but please respectiable sources

Hi

Kindly access the following:

• Jihad - Supreme Efforts in the Way of Allah alislam.org/jihad/quran.html
• Jihad of the Pen alislam.org/library/links/00000064.html
• Jihad with Sword alislam.org/jihad/sword.html

In case of any help needed please contact me here in this forum.

Thank

 

[justinthemartyr]

and this also

www.thereligionofpeace.com

much information on the religion of peace as you call it.

 

[Frank_J]

I was always told judge not by what they say but by what they do.

youtube.com/watch?v=66maIBToYv4&feature=related
Pure Jew Hate On “Palestinian” AUTHORITY TV
youtube.com/watch?v=lk6VgFg-EK4&feature=related
why does Islam hates Jews and Christians?
youtube.com/watch?v=AmpCh_HBr_Y&feature=related
why does Islam hates Jews and Christians? 2
youtube.com/watch?v=ZLFC3TnkUAQ&feature=PlayList&p=6CC0DFE0947A8089&index=0
teaching hate

What you see above lead to what you will see below.

youtube.com/watch?v=yfce_C8GzdE&NR=1
Collapse Inside the World Trade Center!
youtube.com/watch?v=f3XgQlhqjYw&feature=related
World Trade Center 911 call.
youtube.com/watch?v=mLPwem5JsQk&feature=related
Fatal 911 call from inside Twin Tower.

 

[Gara3987]

I have no problem with Muslims and their jihad within themselves. They can struggle with the devil or whatever they want, but don’t project those struggles to us, infidel.

:thumbsup:I Agree you you 100%!