Islam and Violence

[Gara3987]

His problem is that we are exposing islam for the violent, intolerant lie that it is. The devil loves and is comfortable in darkness and deceit, and despises the light of truth.

John 14:6 Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me.

Here are some versus that most people seem to overlook as well.

1John 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father. He that confesseth the Son, hath the Father also.

2John 1:9 Whosoever revolteth, and continueth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that continueth in the doctrine, the same hath both the Father and the Son.

2John 1:10 If any man come to you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into the house nor say to him, God speed you.
*“Nor say to him, God speed you”… This admonition is in general, to forewarn the faithful of the dangers which may arise from a familiarity with those who have prevaricated and gone from the true faith, and with such as teach false doctrine. But this is not forbidding a charity for all men, by which we ought to wish and pray for the eternal salvation of every one, even of our enemies.

*thedavidwilson I agree with you all the way.

 

[paarsurrey]

Islam/Quran/Muhammad do not punish anybody in this world who reverts back to his previous faith or some other faith.

You may if you like read:
alislam.org/library/books/Apostasy-in-Islam.pdf

Thanks

 

[Jesusisgod]

So,

A friend of mine played internet poker with FaceBook(not seriously) andyway, she’s Muslim and joked to me “If only gambling wasen’t a sin”(as she is quite good at it it turnes out).

Anyway, I forget the exact conversation, but she mentioned that any Muslim who converts from Islam, has three days to convert back, and after that they may be killed.

Anyway, while I love my Muslim friends, I am sometimes a bit disturbed by what seems like violence in Islam. I will admit that I am ignorant of Islam, I have skimmed the Koran, and a few Islamic Philosophy articles(though not much on the Theology and textual analysis in Islam) and that’s about all I know.

So my main question to Muslims here, or anyone who would know(please no Propaganda or non-sense), is what is the relation between Islam and violence. Are faithful Muslims religiously compelled to fight in Jihad aghinst non-muslims. When is violence justified in Islam.

I think you get the idea.

Articles are fine, but please respectiable sources

You got that right Ivan. Islam requires her followers to kill those who reject islam or defect from it. Its clearly written. Which makes me wonder why islam’s allah needs people anyway. Can’t save muhammad from poisoning, cannot save muhammad’s own sons from dying in their infancies, cannot even do the killing itself. Everything seems to be the work of the muslims themselves. Its like you dump them some hocus-pocus and threaten them for not following and they start rampaging everything around them.

I’ve never seen or heard islam’s allah at work. Really. I seriously wonder what it is. Islam’s allah requires people to kill people and justifies itself with quirky rewards to people whom it keeps backward and un-educated. God however, does not need these things. In fact, Jesus healed the soldier whose ear was cut off and rebuked His very own apostle for so doing.

That I suppose is the difference between God and something that just spouts emptiness.

 

[swariffin]

Paar,
I admire your opinion on this and I feel tha tI hav elearned from you. In this matter, why are there death penalties imposed for leaving Islam? I know that these countries base it on Shiara law, is that correct? Secondly, if Islam is peaceful, why don;t the peaceful faction do more to stop the violent sects?

Dear Ralph,

The main problem is that many muslims also believe that they have the right to replace Allah to deliver punishment. By robbing Allah’s right to deliver punishment is a blasphemy because they think that Allah is incapable at all. This is what I got from Paar’s posting.

 

[ralphinal]

Dear Ralph,

The main problem is that many muslims also believe that they have the right to replace Allah to deliver punishment. By robbing Allah’s right to deliver punishment is a blasphemy because they think that Allah is incapable at all. This is what I got from Paar’s posting.

Vengence is mine sayeth the Lord. God reserves true punishment for Himself. What you are saying is logical and probably correct, but I bet it would get you one some lists is Muslim nations

 

[Jacob_Fenton]

I was always told judge not by what they say but by what they do.

But see, it is exactly this kind of biased hateful thought that presents us Catholics as we are seen in the U.S. Let’s face it, quite generally, Catholicism is one of the last acceptable prejudices in America, wouldn’t you agree?

Yet, since we are so put down by our country, we find, somewhere in the fray, justification for prejudice or even hatred of Muslims!

We are judged because we judge. And our Christian brethren and ancestors are no help. In fact, the second highest amount of religious terrorist acts (the first being Islam) are caused by Christians!

WE are terrorists as much as Muslims are.

Need I remind you of conflicts in Ireland? What about the KKK (who carries a trinitarian doctrine)? Or those Baptist churches in India? What about the Catholic man that bombed several abortion centers in the late 90s? Did he not do that for what he thought was the greater glory of God? And the Serbs? They kill and starve and reign mercilessly. And Westboro Baptist Church, although there is little violence, are still a nuisance to many people with their (admitted) message of hate!

Do you know that our American Catholic School system exists because our children could not have the freedom to practice our faith without potential harm? And in forming our school system, there was much violence, and riots. Churches and homes were burned.

But, most certainly, there is a trail of blood throughout Christian history. The fact of the matter is Islam seems to have a violent majority because you are American. You choose to see through the eyes of others who build walls of judgement around them. Those walls collapse in on them and they are trapped and many turn away because of it.

It is one thing to be firmly grounded in your faith, firm in your doctrine. It is another thing to judge what you know little about.

If you say that any of the Christian hate groups that I have mentioned were not “true Christians” then why is it so unreasonable to understand that Muslim hate groups are not true Muslims?

You all who judge a Muslim and their faith, who are you to do so? How are you so holy and blameless?

I am firmly Roman Catholic and believe fully in the teachings of Christ through His Church, and because of this, I can’t falsely claim Islam to be a religion of violence.

 

[c659smith]

I would agree not to judge all Moslems in one lump as violent as it pertains to their faith. Some do not follow the Koran as strictly as others. Read the Koran, digest it’s contents, learn the history on how Islam was founded.
Christianity (the Catholic Church) was founded by Christ built upon loving thy neighbor. The Jews were disappointed Christ did not smash their enemies so many did not follow(Judas).
Later in the centuries when the Catholic Church was the State and as with any State(Goverment) wars were fought. Remember the Catholic Church built Western Civilization as we know it today. We came out of the dark ages and the Catholic Church realized it had no business in goverment. The Church had a little push with King Henry the 8th, Luther, and Calvin but through that period the Catholic Church pretty much voluntarily lowered it arms. It could have very well called for a Holy War but did not and the Church got out of goverment.
See this is where Islam has failed to progress as a Religion or progressive society for the most part. Fundamendalist Islam still believes in the Religious State*** Afganistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Egypt, and the list continues. Islam is still for the most part stuck in the year 600 except for other societies building their modern buildings. It is a shame that such countries as Egypt, Palestine, Babylon (Iraq) all were the cradles of civilization and have ceased to progress as a society due to a hate and distain for the Jews. To control peoples wardrobes, to persecute other Religions, to not allow freedom (Women).
In Islam how does one get to heaven? How many prayers? There is no answer as the only way is by converting others if necessary by force or through being a martyr.

“If thy eye offends thee pluck it out”. the difference here is we understand that to mean to avoid looking at what is causing us to sin. Not to kill it or dig our eyes out. Fundamendalist Islam takes the Koran literally.

 

[paarsurrey]

I can’t falsely claim Islam to be a religion of violence.

Hi

I appreciate you views.

The original teachings of every revealed religion are peaceful, it is only a miniority of them who for political purposes abuse it spread violence.

Thanks

 

[Jacob_Fenton]

Thank you Paar. I have great respect for you and your devotion to Allah. I think that, even though I firmly believe the Catholic Church to be fullness of truth as revealed by God, I cannot deny that outside of the Church, there are others who honestly strive after God and the ways He calls us to live, as the Pope and the Bishops teach. I think a good step in understanding one another is acknowledging that both Muslims and Christians earnestly desire to follow God as He leads us. Lastly, I greatly admire that ‘Islam’ means submission. And rightly so are we to submit to the Will of God. It’s a lesson that my Christian brethren and I continue to learn every day. Thank you for your words of encouragement, Paar!

 

[paarsurrey]

Thank you Paar. I have great respect for you and your devotion to Allah. I think that, even though I firmly believe the Catholic Church to be fullness of truth as revealed by God, I cannot deny that outside of the Church, there are others who honestly strive after God and the ways He calls us to live, as the Pope and the Bishops teach. I think a good step in understanding one another is acknowledging that both Muslims and Christians earnestly desire to follow God as He leads us. Lastly, I greatly admire that ‘Islam’ means submission. And rightly so are we to submit to the Will of God. It’s a lesson that my Christian brethren and I continue to learn every day. Thank you for your words of encouragement, Paar!

Hi

I appreciate your kind words.

Thanks

 

[c659smith]

Paarsurrey and Ahamdi,

I think you misunderstand the creation of Islam. It was not founded on peace–Read the Koran–Understand Mohammed and his immediate relaives after he died,

Again I ask how does one in Islam get to Heaven? Explain it to me. Show me in the Koran.

In fundamendalist Islam what happens to the muslem who marries outside his or her faith?

What happens if I eat in a Fundamentalist Islamic country during a fasting period even though I am not muslem?

Explain to me what an infidel is?

What rights do I have in a Muslem country if I was born there but do not follow Islam, can I buy land, can I vote, can I wear a cross on my outer garments?

It will be a test as to what will happen if Palenstine was to ever get automity and how they will handle rights of non-muslems. Thats right Islamics do have seats Represtation in goverment in Israel. See if Israel gets seats representation with Hamas in Palenstine to represent the Jews

It is estimated that 15 to 25 % are fundamendalist and then the minority would be a whopping 30 to 50 million, and another 40 to 50 % will not condemn the violence either for personal or religious goals or out of fear.

 

[paarsurrey]

Paarsurrey and Ahamdi.

Hi

Islam/Quran/Muhammad are peaceful and are not violent. If the present Muslims are wrong doers and are not following Islam/Quran/Muhammad, then they are responsible for their actions and not Islam/Quran/Muhammad.

Thanks

 

[Frank_J]

Originally Posted by Frank J
I was always told, judge not by what they say, but by what they do.

Originally Posted Jacob Fenton
(But see, it is exactly this kind of biased hateful thought that presents us Catholics as we are seen in the U.S. Let’s face it, quite generally, Catholicism is one of the last acceptable prejudices in America, wouldn’t you agree?)

I would like to say this was not directed as a hateful remark to Roman Catholics or any one else and not even Muslims. I pick the web site so as to show what that all of you, and the Muslims friends that are in chat in this room. When I hear Muslim say that Islam is a peaceful religion. They need to demo-straight that peaceful talk one must be willing to walk the walk. One must walk the walk and not just be a good headline on a newspaper.

I will admit that Christians have done things to one another and we to must learn to live with one another. Jesus said love one another as GOD loves us. Love will always defeat evil in all cases.

If I were Jacob Fenton would look closer at history and not blind ones self to what is happening and put all in the same pot. We Christians try to live with one another and sometime we fail at what GOD told us to do.

During World War II the when a so called Catholic government came to power, one of it’s first action was to kill many Serbian people that lived in Bosnian in the early1940’s. I can show you Youtube film footage during WWII showing evils being done in the name of religion so all of us have done evil. Or I could show books on what was done in the name of religion.

I told me wife that we have all done evil things to one another whether you are Jewish, Roman Catholic, Orthodox Christian or other. My wife is Jewish and I’m Orthodox Christian and we deal with two religions in our house hold. We celebrate many different holiday’s and yet we get along and live in peace. We make our marriage work and it is hard work.

If a mix-marriage of a Croatia Man and a Muslim woman can live with one another and in peace is show it then it is not to late and that all can live in peace, but it will have to begin with trust and love for one another.

I feel that if Muslims want to show that their religion is one of peace, they will have to show the world they mean it once and for all to see. The Muslims that are interested in living in peace with Christian and other of different faiths will have to show the true face of Islam to the world. They will need to turn in the bad ones and let the bad ones face Justice and have the ones that want to destroy the west and impose Shari’ah Law on the west and non-Muslim people, this will need to be stopped at all cost.

Freedom comes at a great cost and Americans have march off to war many times to defend that freedom. Nazi German and Japan could have won the war if it were not for our willingness to fight them. Evil of any kind needs to be defeated if we are to keep our GOD given rights.

We were given GOD given rights as laid down by our for-fathers over two hundred years ago.

I’ve known Muslims for many years and have enjoyed talking with them when at worked. I would work closely with a woman from Iran who worked in Quality Control on A shift. I was head lead of Quality Control on B shift. We would work closely on film division plans for each day and to put out the best quality we could.

I remember sitting with the some of the Bosnians at break time and talking with them many times. I had to test them before I could and would let them work in the darkroom for the production of the I-zone film. You can get to know a people after working with them for a long time.

You would think that people from a common back ground could and would work together a project. Yet the people from Bosnia, Serbia and Croatia would have problems dealing with one another during the work day.

One of the Muslim from Bosnia stabbed the son of a mix-marriage between a Croatia Man and a Muslim woman. The guy that stabbed the other guy was fired on the spot.

You would see families that worked together on the same job. The Croatia Man and a Muslim woman were very kind and nice to me as a person. I would show kindness and be helpful the Muslim woman that I have spoken about in my chat with you. I been to her home and sat hat her dinner table and enjoyed having a good time at there house in Chelsea. I had a very good vibes that they were good people.

When we look at what is done in the name of Islam today. It will appear to a parallel to a story titled as “Doctor Jeckel and Mister Hyde”. One side show itself as good and kind part of a religionist life; but yet we also see the opposite side of itself. Much like the story book described.

 

[Frank_J]

Doctor Jeckel was a man that was very kind and soft spoken who would a good doctor to those he served. But when he took the sip of the formula he would turn to what we read in the book. I didn’t uses this as a biased or hateful thought. I used it as what we are see in this world right now.

Muslims people will need to be more then just words on a page. It will take action on their part to move in a direction of peace and reject the injustices the ones that want to kill us and others. People of many faiths are able to show kindness to others just like the Croatia and Muslim couple, were able to show me at that dinner table. We had many times we chatted with one another. It is not impossible to get along if we all try to live with one another.

In our history in the US we have had to work on religionist differences. Remember that each State in the US had it own State religion, Catholic had theirs Protestants had their states. I read history and have very good books that were once used in schools that are not long used because they talk about GOD and the foundation of this country. GOD forbid one was to use the “J” word in school. Opps! Oh no I said Jesus.

As a very devote Christian I try to walk the walk and just the talk. I treat everyone the same. I not anti-Catholic or Protestants or Muslim. I try to be a good person and show it.

I’ve had the trust of many Bosnians and they show it to me in many ways and that also goes for the Croatia’s and Serbians. I treat all equal no one got special treatment or more trust on my part.

Hope this has been useful in our talks on religionist difference??

 

[Jacob_Fenton]

Absolutely it was helpful. Even though we may disagree in some respects, I think your strong willingness to engage in conversation with others is most admirable. I would argue that I am not blind to history, as you so decided to put it, but such arguments and personal stabs get us no where and only serve to make us look like fools, agreed?

 

[Frank_J]

Like I said that everyone has done it to the other at some point in our history. Muslims have done terrible things to Christians and our people have done things that are not of Jesus Christ

Something’s I can’t cover because Catholic Answers don’t want something’s said. So I have to be very careful in what I say. Sometimes I can be very blunt with my words.

I love to read history and would like to talk about maybe in chat room titled as inter-religionist wars.

Jews being removed from Spain back in 1500’s. What I can say is this that when Islam invaded Spain Jews had collaborated in turning in Catholic people over as Slaves during the Muslim occupation. This is what lead to the Jews being removed from Spain at that time.

Catholics have done thing in thing during WWII that is not to be proud of. Back in the early 1990’s I was shown a film by a Roman Catholic Nuns in North Conway, N.H. They happen to be friends of mine and show me a film on a so called vision of the Virgin Mary that was happening in the 1980’s. It cover the killing of Orthodox Christians that would not convert to Roman Catholic religion and were forced to jump to their death and they men woman and children. I not say that Orthodox Christians saintly either we have out share of blood on our hands too.

We must learn to live with one another or we will die in future conflict and religionist wars.

World War II Bosnian Muslims were put in to the service to serve as SS troops during Nazi rule. So anyone has had there hands socked in blood. It not just Serbians that have done thing. It all of then and we see it in what is happening in world events now.

Look at the fighting between Christians and Muslims in the world and see the future of Europe. We see future fighting in Europe between Christians, Muslim and the so called Pagans. Will Italy become a Muslim country on time will tell and if so what will happen to the works of art that are master pieces. Count the number of births between Christians to Muslims. Will the Muslims of Europe be peaceful or the other.

I know Serbian people that were in that country when Pres. Clinton sent B52 to bomb that country and I was shown the damage that was not aired on TV here in the US. My friends were there to watch the bombs fall. I would say that is close witness can be to something. Do you know what damage done during the bombing raids??? We took out Schools and targets that were un related to so called enemy troops. We put at large hole in a large skyscraper about maybe 20 stories high.

Remember that Clinton did the bombing raid to keep his affairs out of the papers at that time. I need not everybody what he was doing at that time.

Let move on to the main topic and that is Islam and Violence as it is titled in this chat room.

I look forward to hearing what anyone else has to say.

Got to go for now.