Islam as a "religion" and not an Ideology.

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They are a religion to me. I believe there are good souls there. The idea of social-political-religion seems to be their struggle, agreement on it. All of us seem to have this same problem in various degrees. Over here they want to silence religion and take it out and play with it as a toy. Islam is caught in the other extreme which we have been also.
 
i will go along with the take Italy has on this…

islam is not a religion…
 
GaryTaylor said:
They are a religion to me. I believe there are good souls there. The idea of social-political-religion seems to be their struggle, agreement on it. All of us seem to have this same problem in various degrees. Over here they want to silence religion and take it out and play with it as a toy. Islam is caught in the other extreme which we have been also.
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No doubt there are good Muslim souls who yearn for spirituality. They are all inherently good, and are our brothers and sisters in the plan of salvation… But Islam tends to teach ‘Islamic Law’ as a fundamental aspect -which deems Islam, in my opinion, as an ideology more than it is a religion.

…we never hear about the Dervishes. Where are they?
 
doormouse73 said:
i will go along with the take Italy has on this…

islam is not a religion…
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I was unaware that anyone had a take on this similar to mine. I feel as though its indisputable, and am interested in learning more about Italys take.
 
TEPO said:
I was unaware that anyone had a take on this similar to mine. I feel as though its indisputable, and am interested in learning more about Italys take.
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Italy does not recognize Islam as a religion.
 
famdigy said:
What’s the difference between an ideology and religion?
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A religion is only a “set of beliefs” -usually involving spiritual aspects and a creator.

" The current usage of the term [ideology] was, however, originated from Karl Marx. Marx defined “ideology” as a “false consciousness” of a ruling class in a society who falsely presents their ideas as if they were universal truth. Their ideas were neither universal nor objective, Marx argued, but they emerged out of and serve their class interests."
newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Ideology

…typically, idealism involves governance.
 
Islam is not yet formally recognized by the state despite being the second individually professed religion after Catholicism in Italy.[4] The official recognition of a religion different from Catholicism on behalf of the Italian Government is in fact to be approved by the President of the Republic under request of the Italian Minister of the Interior, following a signed agreement between the proposing religious community and the Italian Government. Such recognition does not merely depend on the number of followers of a given religion, and it requires congruence between the proposing religion principles and the Constitution.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Italy
 
TEPO said:
No doubt there are good Muslim souls who yearn for spirituality. They are all inherently good, and are our brothers and sisters in the plan of salvation… But Islam tends to teach ‘Islamic Law’ as a fundamental aspect -which deems Islam, in my opinion, as an ideology more than it is a religion.

…we never hear about the Dervishes. Where are they?
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I believe Islamic scholars are taking a critical look at how the religion has progressed and is now influencing the social-political. I think we all need to take a critical look. Its a little different to say they are not a religion. They were a religion before the social political aspect which progressed.
 
But the Jews teach Jewish law as an integral part of their religion as well. Are they an ideology as opposed to a religion?
 
GaryTaylor said:
You consider it as whole un-holy?
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Yes, I do. I think there needs to remain a clear distinction between Muslims and Islam. Muslims are ‘people’ and they are our brothers and sisters. Islam, on the other hand, is an ideology that dictates law first and foremost, trapping our fellow followers in faith within a particular ideology.
 
TEPO said:
I was unaware that anyone had a take on this similar to mine. I feel as though its indisputable, and am interested in learning more about Italys take.
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The country of Italy banned mosques and all Islamic immigration several years ago. Italy might be the only non-Muslim majority country in Europe in 100 years. France is expected to have Islam as 50% of the population by 2090.
euromonitor.com/france-in-2030-the-future-demographic/report
 
So our brothers and sisters as humans/muslims are hostage to a social brainwashing ideal, ok, not unprecedented, how do we help them?
 
GaryTaylor said:
So our brothers and sisters as humans/muslims are hostage to a social brainwashing ideal, ok, not unprecedented, how do we help them?
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We could start by asking where all the Dervishes went, and when they left. 🤷

I see Mullahs as political rallymen and Dervishes as religious spiritual men.
 
uhhh… that’s nice? You can consider it a rubber chicken if you want-- it makes no difference.

There’s not really a dichotomy with your examples because a dervish is not necessarily a teacher. Rumi [may Allah have mercy on him] mentions dervishes in his poetry all the time and, from what I recall, he speaks of dervishes as devoted sufis who go an extra mile in renouncing wealth (and often other things like marriage).

Sure, a dervish can be a sheikh or a khatib, but by no means is every dervish in a teaching position.
 
GaryTaylor said:
So our brothers and sisters as humans/muslims are hostage to a social brainwashing ideal, ok, not unprecedented, how do we help them?
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You can help by not being so condescending. I’m not a victim-- I’m a muslim by choice.
 
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