Islam as a system of life

[planten]

With 1502 posts in the forum you cannot just be visiting. You’re here to stay madam and we welcome you. Jesus has called you, and your powers of reason will take you all the way through. Faith without reason is like a house of straw built on sand. Faith and reason is the hallmark of Christianity. Hear and be saved, believe and have eternal life. I will pray for you to complete your journey to Jesus Christ.

“Love one another as I have loved you” and " Love thy neighbour" must surely resonate more profoundly in you then anything the quran contains.

No bad feelings, Perhaps you are uninformed about the Quran and Hadith. The Quran and Hadith have much more than “Love thy neighbor”. If you have time then try to check up the relevant verses about neighbors in the Quran.

About Hadith, The messenger of God (Muhammad) said that he was so much stressed by God for good relations with the neighbor that he felt that the next verses to be revealed would be the order to make the neighbor as having rights (share) in the inheritance. (or in the wealth.)

I am sorry, I could not present the above with good English. I hope you understand it.

 

[R_not]

Gulf States, in particular Saudi Arabia - chop chop square comes to mind.

Egypt - asked any Coptic Christians living in Egypt what they think of the non-violence in Egypt. Christians girls kidnapped, raped and forced to convert. Recently 20,000 muslims converged on a newly built Church calling out for it to be closed. A few came in to disturb the Mass. Some Christian men defended the Church and they were carted away never to be seen again.

Indonesia - three 16 year old Christian girls on their way home from school were decapitated as a gift for Ramadan. One other escaped with her neck badly hacked at.

Your claims of colonisation and imperialism are pure hypocrisy. Islam is the worst violator : genocide, ethnic cleansing, slavery and much more for 1400 years.

Sir, take your totally debunked Edward Said and his orientalism to the sewer where they belong. Edward Said, the palifakian. He never lived in the muslim philistine occupied Samaria/Jude/Gaza; apparently some family relations of his did - it was through these relations he claimed to be a “Palestinian”.

The only ignorance on this thread so far has come from the muslim apologists. Hypocrits the lot of them.

As I have written many times - there is a wealth of information to back up assertions such as yours on a daily basis. The violence that is perpetrated against non-muslims just grows.

Christian apostate from islam - a judge expressing desire to kill the person himself if he had a knife.

In accordance with Muhammad’s own orders: “If anyone changes his religion, kill him” (Bukhari vol. 9, bk. 84, no. 57).

These “insurgents” were angry and felt the need to “retaliate” for the arrest of their leader by…slaying Buddhists?

Turkey: Special teams to stop honor killings

this next article is a couple of years old, but it should show you that this so called ‘secular’ country is forcing Christians, and others, to hide in order not to be persecuted. For us Westerners - time passes and we change, in the islamic world - time passes and they go backwards.

A tense time for a papal visit

 

[R_not]

No bad feelings, Perhaps you are uninformed about the Quran and Hadith. The Quran and Hadith have much more than “Love thy neighbor”. If you have time then try to check up the relevant verses about neighbors in the Quran.

About Hadith, The messenger of God (Muhammad) said that he was so much stressed by God for good relations with the neighbor that he felt that the next verses to be revealed would be the order to make the neighbor as having rights (share) in the inheritance. (or in the wealth.)

I am sorry, I could not present the above with good English. I hope you understand it.

yes, this is how islam nations treat their neighbors: India, Kashmir, Pakistan and jihad

I have to warn you that there are some sections in the above website that are very gruesome - but what they do the the Indians they have done in so many places to many peoples. To the Christian Lebonese, to the Africans, to the last Buddhist family in Thailand, a Buddhist couple in Thailand just today, etc. Or how about all those muslim areas in Europe (700 sensitive urban areas in France alone) that non-muslims are unsafe if they enter? Or that Jewish children have to have body guards to go to school in Sweden. Of course, the muslims not only expect that they be safe in all areas - they DEMAND it.

Yeah - all that love and peace - I can just feeeeel it.

 

[jakasaki]

To add to R_Not’s articles why would this happen?

Understanding that ramadan is an islamic holiday, why should that affect the Christians living in the middle east?

**EGYPT: CHRISTIANS SENT TO PRISON AFTER BRUTAL POLICE RAID **

Judge ignores video evidence of officers’ unwarranted, violent attack on café.

Following a brutal raid on six Christian brothers and their café because they had opened for business during Ramadan, the Muslim month of fasting, a judge on Jan. 22 sentenced them to three years in prison with hard labor for resisting arrest and assaulting authorities.

Last September, 13 police officers raided the café in Port Sa’id, a city in Egypt’s Nile delta, overturning tables, breaking chairs and smashing glasses and hookah pipes, according to the Coptic Christians’ lawyer.

They beat the brothers with sticks, leaving two with broken arms and a third needing 11 stitches for a head wound.

“The police attacked these people and assaulted them unjustifiably,” said Ramses el-Nagar, the Christians’ lawyer.

**“Police did not want to see people eating during Ramadan". **

This is unfair, because whatever people’s beliefs are, the law is something else and they should not be mixed.”

There is no law in Egypt under which the brothers could be prosecuted for opening their café during Ramadan.

When they tried to defend their café, the brothers, all in their 30s, were arrested on Sept. 8 and charged with resisting arrest and assaulting authorities.

The names of the imprisoned Christian brothers are Ashraf Morris Ghatas; Magdy Morris Ghatas; Osama Morris Ghatas; Nabil Morris Ghatas; Walid Morris Ghatas; and Hany Morris Ghatas.

real sad! I bet you will never see any violence from Christians while they fast during lent and all muslim cafe’s and restaurants are open…! Hey, I’m just saying!

Islam is NOT fair, brotherly and peaceful to others. Not at all!

Best regards and God Bless
Pam
New York

 

[R_not]

To add to R_Not’s articles why would this happen?

Understanding that ramadan is an islamic holiday, why should that affect the Christians living in the middle east?

real sad! I bet you will never see any violence from Christians while they fast during lent and all muslim cafe’s and restaurants are open…! Hey, I’m just saying!

Islam is NOT fair, brotherly and peaceful to others. Not at all!

Best regards and God Bless
Pam
New York

Keep in mind we are talking about the most intolerant, and bigoted, religion in the world whose followers are told to deceive us about islam ( 6:25 6:110 17:45-76). The ‘peace’ of islam is only a facade.

They do indeed force it on others. When more and more muslims are around the demands start increasing and then the violence. I used to have this in my signature and replaced it with the icon showing the number of attacks since 9/11. But, here it is again:
% of muslims and % of violence directed against non-muslims

muslims forcing others to fast

muslims destroy restaurants during ramadan

this is how it srarts - by us cowering to their demands in our own lands.

Scotland, muslims demand that doctors not eat in front of them

UK, ramadan imposed on all members of a council

They start demanding and they never end until we are obeying their sharia laws.

This article has references to an AFP article that mentions that the ramadan fast is a “warrior’s” type of diet. Warriors fasted during the day (all that fighting takes a lot of daylight hours, you know!) and then ate at night.

since mohammed was a warrior many of his warriors were forced to do this diet and mohammed probably didn’t like the fact that the ones who didn’t fight were not having to have such a strict regime. He was quite often trying to stir the followers to fight and war with others - so he imposed this on all muslims at least once during the year.

The above is only my guess - after reading so much about mohammed, he was not a very nice guy and would impose a lot of nasty things on people just because he liked to control them.

 

[Aydan]

this next article is a couple of years old, but it should show you that this so called ‘secular’ country is forcing Christians, and others, to hide in order not to be persecuted. For us Westerners - time passes and we change, in the islamic world - time passes and they go backwards.

A tense time for a papal visit

I have to speak out on this even though I know I will get clobbered for especially on here in this forum. Turkey is a secular nation. Anybody who knows anything about Atatürk at all knows his biggest fear was that Turkey would turn into an Islamic theocracy just like we see in Iran today. Today that battle rages on in Turkey just as has since the founding of the Republic in 1923. There are people in power who want Turkey to be secular and people who want to be an Islamic theocracy like Iran. However I do not understand why people have to criticize the entire Turkish population of people for stuff that only a small group of hard-line Islamists doin or out of the government. I do not hear people criticizing the entire population of Iran. I only hear criticism of the government there but yet when it comes to Turkey people have put the entire country down and its people as if they are evil or something. Now, I am not technically ethnically Turkish but I love Turkey as much as an outsider can and with my heart and soul I consider myself a Turkish Catholic. am I saying I agree with the Turkish government on some of the things it has done like making life difficult for Christians of course not I don’t agree with that but I do not understand why people refuse to make a distinction between the civilian population of Turkey and its government. Remember when you put the whole country down your not only putting the thousands of Christians living in Turkey but you’re also putting down all of the Turkish Catholics down as well including me and that’s not fair.

 

[R_not]

I have to speak out on this even though I know I will get clobbered for especially on here in this forum. Turkey is a secular nation. Anybody who knows anything about Atatürk at all knows his biggest fear was that Turkey would turn into an Islamic theocracy just like we see in Iran today. Today that battle rages on in Turkey just as has since the founding of the Republic in 1923. There are people in power who want Turkey to be secular and people who want to be an Islamic theocracy like Iran. However I do not understand why people have to criticize the entire Turkish population of people for stuff that only a small group of hard-line Islamists doin or out of the government. I do not hear people criticizing the entire population of Iran. I only hear criticism of the government there but yet when it comes to Turkey people have put the entire country down and its people as if they are evil or something. Now, I am not technically ethnically Turkish but I love Turkey as much as an outsider can and with my heart and soul I consider myself a Turkish Catholic. am I saying I agree with the Turkish government on some of the things it has done like making life difficult for Christians of course not I don’t agree with that but I do not understand why people refuse to make a distinction between the civilian population of Turkey and its government. Remember when you put the whole country down your not only putting the thousands of Christians living in Turkey but you’re also putting down all of the Turkish Catholics down as well including me and that’s not fair.

don’t you think that people have that sentiment towards many countries that are now islamic pig stys and they did nothing about it and said nothing about it - because they like the country, the peoples, etc?

If we don’t start saying what islam does to a country - and just do nothing because ‘we like the country’ then it will happen to us. It has happened in Lebanon. Brigette Gabriel tells us of the hole the muslims have made of her country and it probably tears her heart out because she loved her country. It doesn’t mean all the people are bad.

No, what it does mean is that a whole heck of a lot of people did and said nothing to let their country get that way.

And yes, it is hard to come up against islam. Not only do we get the constant whining and wailing, the continual victimization from them; but we get it from our own who cannot see that it is islam we are disgusted with. And unfortunately - it is the muslims who are bringing it with them. I cannot help that - they are the ones who are doing it.

They have a strong lobby in Washington. they have clerics and muslims with nothing else to do except work for sharia laws in our countries. They brainwash from an early age, and having over 40% of over a billion people thinking it is ok to use violence - is a whole heck of a lot of people while the rest, or a vast majority of the rest, think that deceiving us, giving their children to jihad, etc are just fine too - we don’t think of that as a problem. It is when the final solution is death, conversion or subjugation. There is no other option with these people. STudy islam. It is a disgusting thing to study - but if you want to know their goals there is no other way.

Oh well, I got to go for now. I got a new printer - much better to send letters to Congress, the Pentagon, the FBI, and our colleges and even the Pope! My brand new printer is slick! and I want to get it attached so as to proceed with what I have to do.

 

[R_not]

I should add that they have a wahabbi/muslim brotherhood backed MSA in our schools. This week I learned that the FBI gave CAIR the boot - good! What took them so long!!!

But the MSA is just as dirty as CAIR and needs to be given the boot out of our colleges. Where do you think a lot of this apologist/appeasement comes from? The facade of islam that they are taught from those people.

I don’t even want our country to get like Europe and the UK. They don’t even have enough guts to stand up for themselves. They cower to islam/sharia laws. they are afraid of all the ‘urban sensitive zones’ of which there are 700 in France alone.

WHen I hear that the muslims are trying to bring back segregation that just burns me. Segregation is a separation of people due to one being superior to another. And they bring it back under the disguise of ‘modesty’ when in fact they think we are dirty as they think their own women are dirty.

 

[planten]

yes, this is how islam nations treat their neighbors: India, Kashmir, Pakistan and jihad

I have to warn you that there are some sections in the above website that are very gruesome - but what they do the the Indians they have done in so many places to many peoples. To the Christian Lebonese, to the Africans, to the last Buddhist family in Thailand, a Buddhist couple in Thailand just today, etc. Or how about all those muslim areas in Europe (700 sensitive urban areas in France alone) that non-muslims are unsafe if they enter? Or that Jewish children have to have body guards to go to school in Sweden. Of course, the muslims not only expect that they be safe in all areas - they DEMAND it.

Yeah - all that love and peace - I can just feeeeel it.

All R Not bad !!

 

[dzheremi]

I love it when Planten makes jokes.

 

[planten]

To add to R_Not’s articles why would this happen?

Understanding that ramadan is an islamic holiday, why should that affect the Christians living in the middle east?

** I agree with you. Muslims do many bad things during Ramadhan such as exercising restrictions on eating/ drinking for all people, even non-muslims and all children.

That is not fair. In fact it is illegal to enforce anything which is not prescribed in the religion**.

real sad! I bet you will never see any violence from Christians while they fast during lent and all muslim cafe’s and restaurants are open…! Hey, I’m just saying!

Islam is NOT fair, brotherly and peaceful to others. Not at all!

Best regards and God Bless
Pam
New York

** I have agreed to you and told all in my above remarks.**

 

[ralphinal]

Planten,
If these acts are against Islam, and I do not doubt you on that, why do Muslims not stop them?

 

[R_not]

I love it when Planten makes jokes.

yeah, me too. The problem is that he continues to defend the indefensible. I feel sorry for him and pray for him.

He actually has some spunk, but denying the current jihad against India and kashmir, denying that muslims do indeed force themselves onto people, doesn’t do his intelligence any good.

And their muslim laws don’t do anything to stop it and that is why they come to our countries thinking that they can enforce their laws on us. They whine and wail that they are oppressed and persecuted because we don’t want to be under their sharia laws which would in effect subjugate us. We are lower than dogs, pigs and urine in sharia law - and muslims get upset when people who are as low as us discuss this. They only want us to post and agree with them about the weaker, abrogated surahs.

These next videos are from a guy, Father Butros, that the muslims have put a price on his head due to his openness and frankness about islam. He has the distinction of being Al Qaeda’s #1 infidel.

coptic priest talking about abrogation, part 1coptic priest talking about abrogation, part 2coptic priest talking about abrogation, part 3

 

[dzheremi]

I have to speak out on this even though I know I will get clobbered for especially on here in this forum. Turkey is a secular nation. Anybody who knows anything about Atatürk at all knows his biggest fear was that Turkey would turn into an Islamic theocracy just like we see in Iran today. Today that battle rages on in Turkey just as has since the founding of the Republic in 1923. There are people in power who want Turkey to be secular and people who want to be an Islamic theocracy like Iran. However I do not understand why people have to criticize the entire Turkish population of people for stuff that only a small group of hard-line Islamists doin or out of the government. I do not hear people criticizing the entire population of Iran. I only hear criticism of the government there but yet when it comes to Turkey people have put the entire country down and its people as if they are evil or something. Now, I am not technically ethnically Turkish but I love Turkey as much as an outsider can and with my heart and soul I consider myself a Turkish Catholic. am I saying I agree with the Turkish government on some of the things it has done like making life difficult for Christians of course not I don’t agree with that but I do not understand why people refuse to make a distinction between the civilian population of Turkey and its government. Remember when you put the whole country down your not only putting the thousands of Christians living in Turkey but you’re also putting down all of the Turkish Catholics down as well including me and that’s not fair.

I agree with everything you’ve written here, Aydan. There are some parts of Turkish history that disturb me greatly (like the attempted genocide of the Armenians and Assyrians), that I think the modern Turkish state needs to recognize now. But Turkish people are great, and I know at least some that do recognize their country’s mistakes. I wish more of my fellow Americans would do that about the USA!

But I do have one question for you, Aydan. What do you think about Article 301 of the Turkish penal code, the famous one that makes it a crime to “insult Turkishness”? I have heard that this is used as a legal excuse to persecute and intimidate Muslim converts to Christianity in Turkey, as well as against authors and other intellectuals who talk about the Armenian genocide. This seems to be against Turkey’s well-known secularist foundations, and it is very disturbing to me to see actions against Turkish Christians treated as something acceptable by those who think they are defending Turkish nationalism (since some people in the country apparently think you can’t be Turkish AND Christian…they must close their eyes and hum really loudly when they see the Hagia Sophia!)

 

[Aydan]

don’t you think that people have that sentiment towards many countries that are now islamic pig stys and they did nothing about it and said nothing about it - because they like the country, the peoples, etc?
I’m not going to speak for others I can only speak for myself and my answer is no I speak out against its the injustices of the Turkish government BECAUSE I love Turkey

If we don’t start saying what islam does to a country - and just do nothing because ‘we like the country’ then it will happen to us. It has happened in Lebanon. Brigette Gabriel tells us of the hole the muslims have made of her country and it probably tears her heart out because she loved her country. It doesn’t mean all the people are bad.
** From your statement earlier you made it seem like you were saying all Turks are bad because you made a statement about it going backwards. You must understand this I’ve come across many Catholics who hate Turkey for a variety of reasons and your statement made it seem as though you dislike Turkey.
I don’t think it is right to compare Turkey to all the other places you mentioned because again Atatürk did his best to set up a completely secular state not only that when the Ottoman Empire fell one of the first things he did was to abolish the caliphate and to strip as much of Islam as he possibly could out of the government he even set up the system where there is a council of military officers to intervene if the people in power take steps to establish an Islamic theocracy like Iran.**

No, what it does mean is that a whole heck of a lot of people did and said nothing to let their country get that way.

And yes, it is hard to come up against islam. Not only do we get the constant whining and wailing, the continual victimization from them; but we get it from our own who cannot see that it is islam we are disgusted with. And unfortunately - it is the muslims who are bringing it with them. I cannot help that - they are the ones who are doing it.
** Of course it’s hard going against Islam I know from the example that Atatürk left for Turkey. By the way he is revered by most Turks but those who want to establish a theocracy in Turkey HATE Atatürk with a passion because they have accused him of betraying Islam. They do everything in their power to try to discredit him. He is buried above ground and they came up with the story to discredit him for that as well. They claim when Atatürk died he went to hell because he wasn’t a good Muslim and he was so bad that when they tried to bury him in the ground the ground actually rejected his body so that’s why they had to bury him above ground.
Again I take issue with you saying that most people are doing this in Turkey because it’s not most Turks. In this respect just like most Iranians want democracy but the people with the power do not that is how it is in Turkey as well most Turks want a full-fledged democracy it is the Turkish government and especially the military that do not and they are the ones that hold powerin Turkey. No they should not be allowed to get away with these injustices of course not.**
They have a strong lobby in Washington. they have clerics and muslims with nothing else to do except work for sharia laws in our countries. They brainwash from an early age, and having over 40% of over a billion people thinking it is ok to use violence - is a whole heck of a lot of people while the rest, or a vast majority of the rest, think that deceiving us, giving their children to jihad, etc are just fine too - we don’t think of that as a problem. It is when the final solution is death, conversion or subjugation. There is no other option with these people. STudy islam. It is a disgusting thing to study - but if you want to know their goals there is no other way.
** Again the vast majority of Turks don’t feel this way but since many of the people in power things like this people think this is how all Turks think and then they make derogatory statements about the entire Turkish population. I’m not saying don’t criticize the bad stuff that happens in Turkey just don’t makes general statements like the secular state going backwards because you sound like you’re not only judging the entire population of Turkey but you also dislike the country as well.**
Oh well, I got to go for now. I got a new printer - much better to send letters to Congress, the Pentagon, the FBI, and our colleges and even the Pope! My brand new printer is slick! and I want to get it attached so as to proceed with what I have to do.** Enjoy your new printer don’t use all of the ink in one sitting. **

 

[Aydan]

I agree with everything you’ve written here, Aydan. There are some parts of Turkish history that disturb me greatly (like the attempted genocide of the Armenians and Assyrians), that I think the modern Turkish state needs to recognize now. But Turkish people are great, and I know at least some that do recognize their country’s mistakes. I wish more of my fellow Americans would do that about the USA!

But I do have one question for you, Aydan. What do you think about Article 301 of the Turkish penal code, the famous one that makes it a crime to “insult Turkishness”? I have heard that this is used as a legal excuse to persecute and intimidate Muslim converts to Christianity in Turkey, as well as against authors and other intellectuals who talk about the Armenian genocide. This seems to be against Turkey’s well-known secularist foundations, and it is very disturbing to me to see actions against Turkish Christians treated as something acceptable by those who think they are defending Turkish nationalism (since some people in the country apparently think you can’t be Turkish AND Christian…they must close their eyes and hum really loudly when they see the Hagia Sophia!)

Okay yes all of this is true to understand all of these things you must understand that Turkey is not a full-fledged democracy. Atatürk set it up that way because Atatürk didn’t think that the Turks were ready for a full democracy so he set up a military council which has almost equal power to the civilian government the key is the military can stage a coup and overthrow the government and take over. This has happened several times you cannot understand what is going on with the Christians or the restrictions or anything else until you understand Atatürk and his system of government. For example, if you understood how important Turkish pride is to Turks you would understand why there is a law prohibiting doing anything against Turkness. I am the same way myself with Atatürk I revere him and I do not like when people talk trash about him there’s a law against that in Turkey as well. All of these things can be traced back to Atatürk and his governmental system.If you expect me to defend the actions you list I’m not going to because I Love Turkey not its government. You can love a country without loving it’s government. I love America and I would die for it but that does not mean that I agree with or like every action that the government takes.
since I know you like books if you really want to understand this stuff read this book
Crescent and Star: Turkey Between Two Worlds

 

[dzheremi]

Thanks for your reply, Aydan. Just for clarification, no, I am not asking you to justify or defend any of the violence against Christians within Turkey either in the past or the present; I don’t know any Christian that would do that, and like you, I can definitely recognize the difference between loving your country and its people and loving or agreeing with your country’s government. I was just curious about your reaction to that particular law since you are a Turkish Christian, and I have heard that this law is sometimes used to persecute Muslim-background Christians in Turkey.

I will look for that book you have suggested. I have read some about Ataturk, but mainly limited to language reforms in his modernization campaign (e.g., abandoning the Arabic script, which was a less than ideal script to represent the Turkish language anyway, especially because of its unique vowel harmony system).

 

[StefanIndonesia]

So, your claim that we are persecuting you isn’t true. muslims live among us and can walk around freely without worry - the same cannot be said of non-muslims in your country.

We are Catholic can walk around freely without worry, but cannot pray freely without worry - even only make a cross sign before eat in a cafe or someplace the like. It can make many muslim’s eyes burn in “fire”.

Even, if a Catholic Church which had legal permission from government to build, many muslims will do jihadic movement by bringing baseball sticks, rocks, or big catapult to subdue the church to build.

So, who are the persecutors? Not us, but muslims. When you start claiming we are the persecutors that in itself is persecuting us. You are claiming a falsehood and an injustice by deception.

And they are very proud when some Christians (many of them are opportunist actors, actresses, or other famous opportunist people - some Catholics, some protestant) convert to islam and called them as “who are enlighted/got hidayah and back to islam” and call them as “mualaf”, then broadcast it to all over TV stations in the whole country.

But when a muslim convert to Catholic they will remain unspoken even some harassment treatment happened to the convert.

 

[Aydan]

okay this is where things get weird and it confuses everybody so I will do my best to explain it. Yes I do in fact consider myself to be a Turkish Catholic however I’ve never actually been to Turkey or lived there. So here’s the explanation for this. A friend of mine who has lived in Turkey and is Christian introduced me to Turkey and Turkish when he returned from his first trip there. Now I am disabled and they have no wheelchair access in Turkey but of course my body is confined to my wheelchair but my brain and heart are not and since Catholicism as well as Turkey are important things to me I was looking for a way to show my admiration for Turkey so when the opportunity arose and I’ve found something that was both Turkish as well as Catholic I adopted those traditions. But as far as being officially Turkish Catholic as far as rites are concerned I’m not because I cannot physically go over to Turkey to do that. But because I still following Turkish traditions I consider myself to be Turkish Catholic so I’m not familiar with the laws over there so I can’t answer your question right offhand but if I find an answer I will post here for you. I hope this isn’t too confusing. Following Turkish traditions is just the way for me to show my admiration and I have a little piece of Turkey since I cannot physically go to Turkey. I hope I’m making sense:blush:
here is the book
amazon.com/Crescent-Star-Turkey-Between-Worlds/dp/0374528667

Thanks for your reply, Aydan. Just for clarification, no, I am not asking you to justify or defend any of the violence against Christians within Turkey either in the past or the present; I don’t know any Christian that would do that, and like you, I can definitely recognize the difference between loving your country and its people and loving or agreeing with your country’s government. I was just curious about your reaction to that particular law since you are a Turkish Christian, and I have heard that this law is sometimes used to persecute Muslim-background Christians in Turkey.

I will look for that book you have suggested. I have read some about Ataturk, but mainly limited to language reforms in his modernization campaign (e.g., abandoning the Arabic script, which was a less than ideal script to represent the Turkish language anyway, especially because of its unique vowel harmony system).

 

[Aydan]

since I know you like books if you really want to understand this stuff read this book
Crescent and Star: Turkey Between Two Worlds

opps I just realized something sorry about the book comment dzheremi I just assumed I was talking to RNOT since we have been exchanging posts all day and I knew he likes to read books. I’m so embarrassed right now:blush: yes I need to work on my reading skills.