Islam as a system of life

[charlotte10]

I think since the Holy Father visited the King of Saudi Arabia, and they had dialogue, that there will be more like for each others views on God, a like that will bring a form of peace and reciprocated values.

I had permission to go to the Mosque to learn, but there was a gender on gender “struggle”, and I don;t know what it stemmed from, but I was sorely saddened, and hurt. My neighborhood that I know doesn’t represent that, nor what you are writting about, so if there is something common, like peace between 2 parties, not one blaming the other or the reverse, than there can be less war.We don’t have to start with the top of the ladder to get up the ladder; it can’t work that way. We have to climb from the floor upwards.

I know truethfully that the Catholic church doesn’t want to combine I slam with the Dogma, nor do the I slamists want the Catholic church combined with Islam, and no the two can’t rob the other. There are extremists in all faiths, and we have to pray that there will be a resolution without a massacre.

 

[swariffin]

Aydan, please see a better translation. The correct one. Wali is not a friend. He may be a guardian or protector. Wali is a not really a friend unless it may be an implied meaning. The real meaning is guardian. Please see. Also see it in the context of those days when the Jews were bent on enmity and the nearby christian states were ever ready to attack Madinah.

The Arabic word for a friend is “Khaleel”.

O ye who believe! Take not Jews and Christians as your guardians (supporters). They are guardians (supporters) of each other. And he amongst you that seeks them for guardianship (and support) is of them. Verily God guideth not a people unjust."Sura 5:51.]

That is why I believe that Quran needs reinterpretation so that the “violence” verses will not be taken literally. If you interpret the verse that way, I can accept that, as long as you are consistent.

 

[swariffin]

**
Those Muslims who are opposing those hateful or oppressive beliefs are not great in number. However they are progressing. **

May the numbers continue to increase and dominate the whole muslim. May God bless them.

 

[Aydan]

in Islam it is taught that the Koran is perfect and that the Islamic g-d will keep it from being corrupted so Muslims believe that versus in the Koran cannot be reinterpreted.

That is why I believe that Quran needs reinterpretation so that the “violence” verses will not be taken literally. If you interpret the verse that way, I can accept that, as long as you are consistent.

 

[swariffin]

in Islam it is taught that the Koran is perfect and that the Islamic g-d will keep it from being corrupted so Muslims believe that versus in the Koran cannot be reinterpreted.

That is why I also doubt that the Quran can be reinterpreted and such reinterpretation can be accepted globally. But, if that things happen, don’t you think we will end up in better world? Well, it may still be far ahead. But, as long as they are willing to take the first step toward such globally accepted reinterpretation, I believe that God will interfere in His own way to make good things happen. Remember, no matter how far one must go, he/she will start with the first step. We cannot go anywhere without taking the first step.

 

[planten]

in Islam it is taught that the Koran is perfect and that the Islamic g-d will keep it from being corrupted so Muslims believe that versus in the Koran cannot be reinterpreted.

**No. The protection of the Quran is in two ways.

1. The protection of the original text of the Quran. That is evident.
2. The protection of the meaning i.e. interpretation of the verses. There is a scheme from God (Allah) to protect the meanings too. So the wrong meanings are shunted out by the reformers who have been promised in every century in the Islamic ummah (nation).

So please remember that verses can always be re-interpretted. The wonders and the meanings of the Quran will not be exhausted.**

 

[chrisse]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

I can give u thousands stories of forced conversions & murders of Jews & Muslims by Christians hands

Please do. But be cautious that what you produce is historically accurate, and not an historical narrative.

 

[Writer]

I should add that whenever someone doesn’t like the message I have heard quite often they start calling them nazis. And I never figured that God would not want us to use our brains! He gave them to us and unlike the muslims who are told not to question, discuss and think for themselves - we do indeed believe that we have that right, and it is not a sin to do so.

nazism is a fascism - just as communism is. It is the ‘either you are with us or you are against us’ mentality.

Well, that brings up another interesting subject concerning islam. The muslim brotherhood and its direct ties to the Nazis.

The mufti of Jerusalem had a great influence on Hitler and his starting up the ethnic cleansing of the Jews.

islam and nazi ties

Arab-Hitler

The muslim brotherhood is an offshoot of the mufti of Jerusalem - Al Husseini. As is Saddam Hussein, Arafat, Al Qaeda, Hamas, the Saudi wahabbism (which is being taught in over 1,000 mosques in the USA now) and the MSA which is a tool that the muslim brotherhood uses on our campuses.

Video of Brigette Gabriel from Thomas More Law Center (page down)

I have links to the documents they have found in the USA and in Europe, if you would like them - just let me know. And the STATED goals of the muslim brotherhood, using the MSA, in our schools is clearly outlined. The video above shows Brigette Gabriel talking about it and her work on it (I belong to her organization and did research on it, that is why I have some of these links).

CAIR is also a tool of the saudis, or muslim brotherhood.

Over and above these tools by the saudis and muslim brotherhood to radicalize muslims is the koran itself. It is not hard to radicalize since all the fuel for it is in there. When a muslim wants to try to convince us that islam is peaceful - they use the abrogated, Meccan, surahs. They always leave out that they are abrogated and that when in dar al harb (our infidel lands) they are in a state of war. War in islam does indeed include bloodshed and all the atrocities associated with it, but they define it as ‘opening up the world to islam’.

Peace can only be attained in islam by us infidels being either killed, converted or subjugated. And the intent is not necessarily to kill or convert us - but it is to subjugate us - to bring us all under sharia law. Where infidels have absolutely no rights at all - or their ‘farce’ of what they call rights to practice our religion. Other than that infidels have no rights if crimes are committed against them, to vote, or anything.

But, to a muslim sharia law is a perfect set of laws. It even has laws concerning their potty behavior. (I never got an answer if they have ‘potty’ police - those who go in and make sure they are doing it correctly and if not, what is the penalty!) There are other inane points in sharia law. The article goes into some of them.

sharia law

The historical ties between some Muslims and the Nazis is also descibed in Roy Schoeman’s Salvation is from the Jews. A great book. I believe that it may also have been touched on briefly in *What’s So Great About Christianity, *but I can’t remember for certain.

 

[R_not]

Aydan, please see a better translation. The correct one. Wali is not a friend. He may be a guardian or protector. Wali is a not really a friend unless it may be an implied meaning. The real meaning is guardian. Please see. Also see it in the context of those days when the Jews were bent on enmity and the nearby christian states were ever ready to attack Madinah.

The Arabic word for a friend is “Khaleel”.

O ye who believe! Take not Jews and Christians as your guardians (supporters). They are guardians (supporters) of each other. And he amongst you that seeks them for guardianship (and support) is of them. Verily God guideth not a people unjust."Sura 5:51.]

What person translated this for you? It is not in any of the accepted translations that I have downloaded. You are making this up as you go along, or maybe you should go see the thread called, ‘new koran for non-muslims’.

 

[Aydan]

What person translated this for you? It is not in any of the accepted translations that I have downloaded. You are making this up as you go along, or maybe you should go see the thread called, ‘new koran for non-muslims’.

I know because I also have an approved translation of the Koran given to me by a Muslim translated into English of course so I know that this translation he gave is not correct. Not only that it gets better he also wrote this in response to my other post.

**No. The protection of the Quran is in two ways.

1. The protection of the original text of the Quran. That is evident.
2. The protection of the meaning i.e. interpretation of the verses. There is a scheme from God (Allah) to protect the meanings too. So the wrong meanings are shunted out by the reformers who have been promised in every century in the Islamic ummah (nation).

So please remember that verses can always be re-interpretted. The wonders and the meanings of the Quran will not be exhausted.**

Now Islam teaches that the Koran was revealed to Mohammed directly from God through the angel Gabriel so how is it possible for the word to be reinterpreted if it is directly from God? If that is true why does it need to be reinterpreted in the first place?

 

[R_not]

I know because I also have an approved translation of the Koran given to me by a Muslim translated into English of course so I know that this translation he gave is not correct. Not only that it gets better he also wrote this in response to my other post.



Now Islam teaches that the Koran was revealed to Mohammed directly from God through the angel Gabriel so how is it possible for the word to be reinterpreted if it is directly from God? If that is true why does it need to be reinterpreted in the first place?

Well, it shows me how ‘holey’ it is.

 

[charlotte10]

Catholics and Islamists do not let the Believers leave the fold. They both become “divided”, though as to who are the Believers of their faith and who are the Apostates. The “match” is interesting when it is done by both parties on sincerity of cause! It could be like a grand theatre!

PEACE

 

[charlotte10]

Yes, MohammadPBUH,had revelations from God about etiquette. To organize all these teachings, where does it lead a person?

I am mute, and truelly trying to organize all of that verbally out loud, even to myself, is impossible! There is no room for it, but the Catholic faith I do fine. There is a huge belief barrier!

 

[swariffin]

I know because I also have an approved translation of the Koran given to me by a Muslim translated into English of course so I know that this translation he gave is not correct. Not only that it gets better he also wrote this in response to my other post.



Now Islam teaches that the Koran was revealed to Mohammed directly from God through the angel Gabriel so how is it possible for the word to be reinterpreted if it is directly from God? If that is true why does it need to be reinterpreted in the first place?

Well, brother. If Planten believes that Quran can be reinterpreted, then it would be wonderful, correct? At least such reinterpretation has nothing to do to us. We hope that something good would come out of such reinterpretation.

 

[Aydan]

Well, brother. If Planten believes that Quran can be reinterpreted, then it would be wonderful, correct? At least such reinterpretation has nothing to do to us. We hope that something good would come out of such reinterpretation.

well if you’re referring to me that should be “well Sister” because I’m female. Anyway I don’t hold out much hope because I have not heard many Muslims express the view that Planten has. Aside from that it is the Islamic clerics who have all the power in the vast majority of them did not agree with Planten as far as I can tell in my own experiences.

 

[swariffin]

well if you’re referring to me that should be “well Sister” because I’m female. Anyway I don’t hold out much hope because I have not heard many Muslims express the view that Planten has. Aside from that it is the Islamic clerics who have all the power in the vast majority of them did not agree with Planten as far as I can tell in my own experiences.

Ups, sorry sister. My apology. I should have checked your profile earlier. I have the same view actually. If more muslims are just like Planten who would like to reinterpret the Quran, I think we have to pray for them, so that God would bring them back to love not hate, to life not to death, to brother(sister)hood not to conflicts. It is better to have one single muslim who would like to reinterpret the Quran to yield love (if possible) rather than having none at all.

 

[Aydan]

I completely agree but unfortunately the radical Muslims seem to be winning out over the moderates. Like you, I hope that trend changes. I have some really awesome Muslim friends so I hope the moderates people like them can overtake the radicals.
Don’t worry about it it happens all the time. Apology accepted.

Ups, sorry sister. My apology. I should have checked your profile earlier. I have the same view actually. If more muslims are just like Planten who would like to reinterpret the Quran, I think we have to pray for them, so that God would bring them back to love not hate, to life not to death, to brother(sister)hood not to conflicts. It is better to have one single muslim who would like to reinterpret the Quran to yield love (if possible) rather than having none at all.

 

[planten]

I know because I also have an approved translation of the Koran given to me by a Muslim translated into English of course so I know that this translation he gave is not correct. Not only that it gets better he also wrote this in response to my other post.

How do you know the translation I gave is not correct. Can you interpet the Quran?

Now Islam teaches that the Koran was revealed to Mohammed directly from God through the angel Gabriel so how is it possible for the word to be reinterpreted if it is directly from God? If that is true why does it need to be reinterpreted in the first place?

What is interpretted can always be re-interpretted.

 

[Aydan]

How do you know the translation I gave is not correct. Can you interpet the Quran?

What is interpretted can always be re-interpretted.

Like RNOT said it’s not in any of the approved English versions of the Koran including one that I have which my friends who are Muslims have told me is an approved version from Saudi Arabia. Of course I cannot interpret the Koran by myself but as I’ve said I have many friends who are Muslim who can. My second language is Turkish so I am around a lot of Muslims so why would I need to interpret the Koran for myself when I have friends I can ask and that can give me the context behind the verse?

I wish more Muslims had that view I really do but I guarantee you it would not go over well in Saudi Arabia or Iran.I may not agree with everything in your religion but I still love Muslims because Christ teaches us to love everyone. As I’ve said I hope that the moderate Muslims like yourself are successful and that the Koran one day will be able to be reinterpreted. But again it goes back to my fundamental question which is since Muslims believe that the Koran was revealed directly from God how can they justify reinterpreting it if it is already perfect?

 

[planten]

Like RNOT said it’s not in any of the approved English versions of the Koran including one that I have which my friends who are Muslims have told me is an approved version from Saudi Arabia. Of course I cannot interpret the Koran by myself but as I’ve said I have many friends who are Muslim who can. My second language is Turkish so I am around a lot of Muslims so why would I need to interpret the Koran for myself when I have friends I can ask and that can give me the context behind the verse?

I wish more Muslims had that view I really do but I guarantee you it would not go over well in Saudi Arabia or Iran.I may not agree with everything in your religion but I still love Muslims because Christ teaches us to love everyone. As I’ve said I hope that the moderate Muslims like yourself are successful and that the Koran one day will be able to be reinterpreted. But again it goes back to my fundamental question which is since Muslims believe that the Koran was revealed directly from God how can they justify reinterpreting it if it is already perfect?

That was a good post from you. When we are interpretting the verses of the Quran, we are not making it more perfect. The original wording of the Quran remains the same. That is not changed at all.

Suppose some one explained the meaning of a certain verse in year 1000 A.D. He tried to do something. But it does not mean that he did it the best. There may have been some mistakes.

I can assure you that even in present days, with so many commentaries of the Quran, many Muslims are unaware of the real meanings of simple words such as "Momin, Muslim, Kafir, Murtadd (apostate) etc.

If they had known the real meanings then why they would start Jihad with weapons? Why they would kill the apostate? Why they would stone the adulterer?

So the right interpretation is needed all the time, of the bible and the Quran. That is needed to reach the correct understanding of the scriptures.

It is same with the bibleNT. People are interpretting verses differently. That is why some are catholics and some are Protestants and Methodists etc… Even JW’s and The Joseph Smith sect, all due to taking differing meaning of the verses of the bible…