Islam, Atheists and christianity

[thistle]

God can NEVER lie, If you say quran is false then you are exchanging god’s truth with a lie. How come prophet mohammed knew about virgin birth, jesus,moses and other prophets while he was an illiterate? The word of god can NEVER be a lie , it came from heaven and as it’s written human wisdom is reverse to heavenly wisdom because human wisdom comes from this temporary world and the ruler of the world is lucifier. It’s we human who changes heavenly wisdom according to ourselves. Jesus aid i came to set families against each other through our human wisdom it’s wrong but through the heavenly wisdom it means those who follow jesus will be persecuted. Prophet mohammed never wrote the quran,his disciples wrote what he preached and they could exchange the heavenly wisdom from mohammed to human wisdom . Quran says if you are killing a person , you are killing the whole humanity , the other surah’s may be written by human wisdom. Apostles were with Jesus for 3 years yet they failed to understand him, they understood him, could do miracles when holy spirit came down on them. Reading bible or any other word of god will NEVER help you but reading just 1 verse of word of god (even quran) will help a lot

Didn’t you read my post? I said Islam is a false and violent religion. I did not say the Koran did not contain some truths. It contains a mixture of truths and lies - the sort of thing that Satan revels in. The Koran is NOT the word of God.
Christianity (the fulfillment of Judaism) is the only true religion. By default that means all others are false. Does that mean there are not some things in their false religions which do not contradict Church teachings? In many cases not but that does not make them true. You cannot have more than one true religion.

 

[severus68]

Because i have muslim friends and they follow jesus better than other christians who support homosexual and other sins . Heavenly wisdom is opposite to human wisdom,they can’t get along

I have Muslim friends too. I bought the English translation of the Quran to learn, not to follow. However, as a Christian, my Holy Book is the Bible. Ask your Muslim friends. They say the Quran was dictated by God to Mohammed, word by word. So your explanation on how the Quran was wriitten is incorrect. Your version of the necessity for the Quran is wrong. Christians do not need the Quran. Muslims do respect Christ but as a prophet not as God made man/Son of God. Anyone who does not accept that Jesus is one of the three persons in God/the Trinity is not a Christian.

You can respect and should respect persons of other religions but taking the Quran as being necessary for Christians is not on.

Just to distinguish, Buddhism teaches non violence and helping the poor. That is what Christ taught. However, poor Buddhism is not really a religion but more a philosophy. Buddha never said he was God, never really spoke about God. I have great respect for people who follow the principles that Buddha taught.

 

[severus68]

Didn’t you read my post? I said Islam is a false and violent religion. I did not say the Koran did not contain some truths. It contains a mixture of truths and lies - the sort of thing that Satan revels in. The Koran is NOT the word of God.
Christianity (the fulfillment of Judaism) is the only true religion. By default that means all others are false. Does that mean there are not some things in their false religions which do not contradict Church teachings? In many cases not but that does not make them true. You cannot have more than one true religion.

Perhaps we can leave off making such comments about another religion? At least not on CAF. We need only to show how good, right and true Christianity is, we do not need to put others down to do so. The ‘funny’ thing is that a true Muslim would consider the Bible as a holy book revealed by God, to be respected.

 

[TheDoors]

Perhaps we can leave off making such comments about another religion? At least not on CAF. We need only to show how good, right and true Christianity is, we do not need to put others down to do so. The ‘funny’ thing is that a true Muslim would consider the Bible as a holy book revealed by God, to be respected.

No. You are Catholic. You have the One True Faith. This must mean that all others are false. If you are not comfortable with that, you should really sit down with your priest and discuss this with him.

Calling a stone a stone is not putting it down. Calling an idol an idol is not a put-down. Calling islam false is simple truth.

 

[vera_dicere]

I really don’t think you want to play the pull quotes of a book and show that religion to be evil because then the person without a book wins. Atheists have no book, we win. . Islam is just another religion with people who abuse it to have others do evil just like cults that use Christianity in the same way.

Studied any history? Islam spread because of violence. Muhammad and his buddies spread their faith by the sword, those who didn’t convert were killed, kicked out or heavily fined. The Chrsitians and Jews were afforded a little more respect becasue the early Muslims viewed them as monotheists, but a lot converted because they couldn’t afford the fees they had to pay for not being Muslim.

Islam is a false religion, started by a mentally and medically unwell man. Prayer for teh conversion of Muslim souls to the only religion started by God, Catholicism.

 

[thistle]

Perhaps we can leave off making such comments about another religion? At least not on CAF. We need only to show how good, right and true Christianity is, we do not need to put others down to do so. The ‘funny’ thing is that a true Muslim would consider the Bible as a holy book revealed by God, to be respected.

In the first place the OP’s opening comment says Islam is not a bad religion and its not a religion of violence. Obviously the OP wants that to be discussed.
I showed that such an assertion is not correct by quoting their teachings that Jews and Christians should be killed.
Therefore I would like the OP to refute what I have said if it can be done.

As to your other point Muslims consider and openly declare that the Bible is corrupt.

 

[Justicekraite]

Mohmmed was a nomad and lived 600 years after Christ. He would have heard the stories of the Bible, Jesus, and of Mary. His wife’s uncle supposedly was a bishop and a follower of the Ibonian heresy. This uncle had a great influence on him.

You state you are a Catholic. You need to find your way back to the Church. You appear to be too dazzled with this. Receiving the Eucharist will help you much more than reading the quran. Do it quickly.

Nice thinking but ever wondered how he managed he defeat an army from makkah with just 300 people? How could he predict about unbelievers ? How he know about spiral shape of earth , reflected light of moon? how he knew about the mountains pegged to the earth by god so that earth may not shake? And i heard somewhere that prophet mohammed told people about jesus as son of god but they misinterpret it.

 

[Zimm3r]

Studied any history? Islam spread because of violence. Muhammad and his buddies spread their faith by the sword, those who didn’t convert were killed, kicked out or heavily fined. The Chrsitians and Jews were afforded a little more respect becasue the early Muslims viewed them as monotheists, but a lot converted because they couldn’t afford the fees they had to pay for not being Muslim.

Islam is a false religion, started by a mentally and medically unwell man. Prayer for teh conversion of Muslim souls to the only religion started by God, Catholicism.

Because Christianity has never ever spread its religion by anything other than piece and simply respecting your views. Oh wait the Inquisition, the Crusades, hmm I seem to remember those…

 

[Justicekraite]

you sure you are Catholic, friend?
as for stuff you wrote here-you have clearly been drinking too much Islamic propaganda Kool-Aid and not reading enough Bible. Just to mention one of your “reasons”-the reason why Prophet Mohammed would have known about Virgin Mary, Jesus, Apostles, etc is because Quran and Islam didn’t exist until 700 years after Christ. If you read both Quran and Bible it looks like Mohammed took a lot of things from the Bible and twisted it around to suit him and his ideas

Even i believed that until i read quran, islam is a religion of peace. I am a catholic but do you know jesus never told us to make a religion after him, he told us to have faith in him and follow him and if you are saying only christians can go to heaven then that’s false.A priest had a vision of hell in which he told he saw even priest and bishops in hell for misleading people. And how did prophet mohammed knew about 7 heavens and 7 earths? It’s not written in the bible, and it’s also mentioned in book of enoch, enoch was son of descendent of adam

 

[Justicekraite]

Because Christianity has never ever spread its religion by anything other than piece and simply respecting your views. Oh wait the Inquisition, the Crusades, hmm I seem to remember those…

Crusades were formed to save the church from the muslim invaders if you could remember , Muslims are indeed quite violent,they are not following quran, it’s a religion of peace and not of war ,they should work for jannah and not for this temporary world

 

[Zimm3r]

Crusades were formed to save the church from the muslim invaders if you could remember , Muslims are indeed quite violent,they are not following quran, it’s a religion of peace and not of war ,they should work for jannah and not for this temporary world

Never said I forgot, thanks but I know my history, and the crusades were not a noble and just cause by any stretch they were violent and their goal was to kill muslims and destroy islam.

 

[punisherthunder]

First of all, all those christian who says islam is bad religion, you are wrong. Islam(surrender your will to god) ,is a religion of peace. The flaw in islam is they don’t believe jesus is son of god .They believe in quran ,even i do, but it wasn’t written by prophet himself like john,isiah, moses ,prophet mohammed’s disciples wrote it when he preached . But dont’ neglect the fact that the disciples can add anything to the verses according to their human wisdom. If prophet mohammed said’’ Jesus is son of god’’ ,they could have thought’‘how can god marry?’’ ‘’ God will never have sex’’ But the truth is Jesus was first born son to god through the grace of holy spirit ,and not a women.John 1:1-3 ,John 3:6 ‘‘a person is physically born from his parents but in spirit he comes from spirit(holy spirit) ,Jesus existed even before the world was made(before women) ,he was born to God through the holy spirit,All the other things in this world is created.’‘everything was created for him,through him and everything will go back to him’’ .And now to christians, Quran was revealed to prophet mohammed because people weren’t listening to heavenly wisdom of jesus .Quran speaks about many human wisdom even before scientists discovered them ,Dr.zakir nayak explained it beautifully , who knows a machine better than it’s creator? the creator himself ,Scientists or atheist tells us about how everything came from big bang but it’s written in 2 esdras 40 ‘’ he commanded a light to shine out of the room where it was stored’’ , Quran surah 21 :60, Scientist proved us how moon reflects the sunlight but it was already revealed to humans in surah 26:21 , surah 79:30 tells us about spherical shape of earth, surah 21:33 tells us how sun revolves in it’s own axis, Surah 39:21, 30:24,15:22,23:18 24:43,30:48, 7:17 ,they all speaks of water cycle even before scientist discoverd them, many verses in quran and bible tells us about ‘‘science’’ even before they discovered it ,how come quran and bible knew about things which people discovered ages after it were written? the only answer is the creator himself revealed it to prophets.But as prophet isiah prophecised of ''they have closed there ears, they take lie as their refuge ‘’ ,Romans 1:25 ‘‘they have exchanged god’s truth with a lie and brought judgement upon themselves’’ , Quran speaks of how unbelievers will dispute with signs of allah.Evoultion indeed is real but i was created,2 peter 2 :8 for god 1000 days are 1 day and 1 day are 1000 years for him even trillion years are 1 sec. Romans 8 :20 ‘‘for creation was subjugated to lose it’s purpose not of it’s own will but god willed that to be so’’ , evolution seems more reliable because it’s god’s will not human wisdom. Everyone no matter christian ,pagan, muslim ,atheist everyone needs to realize that jesus told us to have faith in him and follow him ,not to create a religion after him. Following Jesus is not a religion, it’s life,truth and way to heaven,to eternity. Even hindhu vedas speaks about Jesus (isa-putra) , He will reward everyone according to what they did when he comes down from heaven with great glory ,Have faith in him ! Luke 18 :8 ‘‘BUT WILL SON OF MAN FIND FAITH ON EARTH WHEN HE COMES?’’

My first reaction is you are a Muslim troll looking to gain attention on a Catholic message board.

My second reaction is that Islam seeks to wipe Christianity from the face of the earth.

 

[thistle]

Because i have muslim friends and they follow jesus better than other christians who support homosexual and other sins . Heavenly wisdom is opposite to human wisdom,they can’t get along

Please explain what the teachings I quoted you mean or ask your muslim friends to explain and then come back and comment. These are some of the teachings which muslim terrorists use to justify their mass murder.

Sura 5:51: “O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: they are but friends and protectors to each other. And he among you that turns to them for friendship is of them.” This friendship makes any Muslim a enemy of their own and deserving of the same fate as the unbeliever. This is because God does not guide an unjust people.

Sura3 3:64: “Verily Allah has cursed the Unbelievers and has prepared for them a Blazing Fire to dwell in forever. No protector will they find, nor savior. That Day their faces will be turned upside down in the Fire. They will say: ‘Woe to us! We should have obeyed Allah and obeyed the Messenger!’ ‘Our Lord! Give them double torment and curse them with a very great Curse!’”

Sura 4:89 “seize them and slay them wherever you find them: and in any case take no friends or helpers from their ranks.”

 

[manualman]

Cannot one believe in 1 and 4?

My hypotehtical #1 supposes that Islam and christianity are of equal benefit to mankind. #4 suggests that Islam is of less benefit to peaceful civilization than christianity. #5 suggests that Islam is of greater benefit. I’m not sure how #1 and #4 could both be true.

The major problem with Islam is Muhammed. Islam teaches that Muhammed is the perfect example of mankind totally submitted to the will of God (Allah). It also clearly portrays Muhammed as a polygamist, a warlord, one who violates his own principles when it serves his interests and one who commands killing of unbelievers. I can’t conceive of how anybody can see this religion as fundamentally peaceful or inclined to producing peaceful societies (especially when nearly ALL majority muslim societies are constantly wracked with violence and oppression). Oops, I tipped my hand on which option I believe is true.

 

[aicirt]

No. You are Catholic. You have the One True Faith. This must mean that all others are false. If you are not comfortable with that, you should really sit down with your priest and discuss this with him.

Calling a stone a stone is not putting it down. Calling an idol an idol is not a put-down. Calling islam false is simple truth.

 

[aicirt]

Nice thinking but ever wondered how he managed he defeat an army from makkah with just 300 people? How could he predict about unbelievers ? How he know about spiral shape of earth , reflected light of moon? how he knew about the mountains pegged to the earth by god so that earth may not shake? And i heard somewhere that prophet mohammed told people about jesus as son of god but they misinterpret it.

You state you are Catholic but you are not. Why not put down what you are?

 

[IbnFiktur]

Please explain what the teachings I quoted you mean or ask your muslim friends to explain and then come back and comment. These are some of the teachings which muslim terrorists use to justify their mass murder.

Sura 5:51: “O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: they are but friends and protectors to each other. And he among you that turns to them for friendship is of them.” This friendship makes any Muslim a enemy of their own and deserving of the same fate as the unbeliever. This is because God does not guide an unjust people.

Sura3 3:64: “Verily Allah has cursed the Unbelievers and has prepared for them a Blazing Fire to dwell in forever. No protector will they find, nor savior. That Day their faces will be turned upside down in the Fire. They will say: ‘Woe to us! We should have obeyed Allah and obeyed the Messenger!’ ‘Our Lord! Give them double torment and curse them with a very great Curse!’”

Sura 4:89 “seize them and slay them wherever you find them: and in any case take no friends or helpers from their ranks.”

There are several ways that Muslim scholars treat these ayas. Only the most extreme treat them as commands that should be carried out in the present-day.

First, in order to truly understand the Islamic way of interpreting the Qur’an, you need to understand the concept of “abrogation.” This wikipedia article will be helpful, but to sum it up the idea is that revelations took place over several years of Muhammad’s life, and different things were going on at different times. In one circumstance, God may have told Muhammad not to trust the Christians or the Jews, perhaps because they were plotting rebellion against him (or something). In another circumstance, God urges moderation toward the Christians and Jews, calling them “People of the Book,” and only requiring that they submit to Muslim rule. Seemingly contradictory, but in fact according to Islamic theology God was telling Muhammad different things to adapt to different circumstances.

Strange as this may sound to Christians, it is the lens through which Muslims have interpreted the Qur’an throughout history, and if you are trying to understand Islamic thought it is imperative that you read the Qur’an in this light. It requires a deeper degree of scholarship than most Christians are willing to give; that is to say, it requires that you look up when a certain sura was revealed (made more complicated by the fact that the Qur’an is not chronologically organized) and what was going on in the life of Muhammad and the Muslim community at that time.

Hope that’s helpful or at least informative. I just tend to find that Christians posting one-liners from the Qur’an and saying “See! Islam is evil!” is no less constructive than atheists pointing to some nasty lines from the Old Testament and saying “See! Judeo-Christian thought is based on murder!”

 

[aicirt]

Never said I forgot, thanks but I know my history, and the crusades were not a noble and just cause by any stretch they were violent and their goal was to kill muslims and destroy islam.

Islam was driven out of France in 730 AD by Charles Martel who was trying to protect his country. He was not part of the Crusades. The First Crusade was 360 years later in 1090 AD because Christians were prohibited from going to Jerusalem. It was Islam which ran across north Africa into Europe putting Christians and Jews to the sword if they didn’t convert. They did it there, through Arabia, into India, into China, in Turkey and into what was recently Yugoslavia, and into Russia. They were not above making males into ennuchs, and selling women, men, and children into slavery to be used however. For 1000 years, Islam went into Africa as it engaged in the slave trade.

Today, Coptic girls are being kidnapped and married off to Muslims. And the latest out of Egypt is all travelers and tourists must adhere to its new dress code.

A few years ago, a Buddha was destroyed even after the international protests. Today, there’s a group in Egypt that advocates destroying the pyramids because it represents a pagan religion.

 

[IbnFiktur]

Friend, you are wrong on one count and engaging in polemic on all the others.

The First Crusade was 360 years later in 1090 AD because Christians were prohibited from going to Jerusalem.

The historical reality is far more complicated than that, as any historian (Catholic or otherwise) will tell you. Needless to say, the crusades were not a just war according to our Just War Doctrine, and it was not carried out justly either. It is for this reason that the Holy Father Pope John Paul II apologized to the Muslim world for the tragedy that was the Crusades.

It was Islam which ran across north Africa into Europe putting Christians and Jews to the sword if they didn’t convert.

This is utterly and completely false. Many Christians and Jews lived in Muslim lands. In fact, some Christian bishops assisted the Muslims by opening the gates of the cities to the invading Muslim armies because they wanted to rid themselves of Byzantine control. I can show you several Christian sources that say this if you like. Or you can ask anyone with a PhD in Middle Eastern history.

Today, Coptic girls are being kidnapped and married off to Muslims. And the latest out of Egypt is all travelers and tourists must adhere to its new dress code. A few years ago, a Buddha was destroyed even after the international protests. Today, there’s a group in Egypt that advocates destroying the pyramids because it represents a pagan religion.

A Muslim could just as easily list nasty things that Christians do and have done in the past century. Been to Colombia lately? Familiar with the IRA? Please consider what you’re saying and try to develop some respect for the people whose religion you are polemicizing about.

 

[severus68]

No. You are Catholic. You have the One True Faith. This must mean that all others are false. If you are not comfortable with that, you should really sit down with your priest and discuss this with him.

Calling a stone a stone is not putting it down. Calling an idol an idol is not a put-down. Calling islam false is simple truth.

Perhaps you should sit down with a good priest or read what Brother JR has explained about this at length. I am a Christian/ Catholic for life. I do not need to scream and rant against other religions to prove how great Catholicism is, it just is.

No one can hope to bring anyone to Christ if disrespect and hate is shown to others. Christ taught that the greatest commandment is love.