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Verisimilitude
Guest
Yes, but I wouldn’t then post something saying the law for Jews is one thing and the law for Muslim is another as you did. That is why I said it is twisted logic.
It isn’t one for each.
Only at the time of Abraham, Jacob, and Moses…up to Christ, God said only the Jews were bound to the Law though in some cases others were subject to it like pharoh and the first born of Egypt. God would not compete with other gods and He made sure Israel was clear about how that was to manifest itself by dealing with them specifcally.
There is and always has been only one law, one truth and one God. Muslims claim the same but say they are now the favored ones of God with a new messege like the Jews were of old. That is where I think you are going wrong. Gods law, His Word, is Jesus and Jesus is Lord of all: Christian, Catholic, Jew, Muslim, Atheist… There is no favored nation anymore as Christ made all men equal in the sight of God. That was the only thing that Christ changed other than fulfilling the Law of Moses. The Law now applies to everyone equally. Before, it didn’t though men transgressed against God He might have judged them differently because they were not told the Law. Something to ponder.
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inJESUS
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You are committing a logical fallacy! The same God does not mean that the Mosaic Law and the Law of Christ were given to the same people in the same period through same leaders.
:doh2:
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Angelos
Guest
Exactly.what Jesus taught is in the OTHe did not “better” the words of the OT but highlighted them in their correct light…
Sister Amy is simply attributing the weird notions of her new faith to her former faith. Typical Islamic tactic.
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inJESUS
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That is Our argument. We gave it unto **Abraham **against his folk. We raise unto degrees of wisdom whom We will. Lo! thy Lord is Wise, Aware.
- And We bestowed upon him **Isaac **and Jacob; each of them We guided; and **Noah **did We guide aforetime; and of his seed (We guided) **David **and **Solomon **and **Job **and **Joseph **and **Moses **and Aaron. Thus do We reward the good.
- And **Zachariah **and **John **and **Jesus **and Elias. Each one (of them) was of the righteous.
- And **Ishmael **and **Elisha **and **Jonah **and Lot. Each one (of them) did We prefer above (Our) creatures,
- With some of their forefathers and their offspring and their brethren; and We chose them and guided them unto a straight path.
- Such is the guidance of Allah wherewith He guideth whom He will of His bondmen. But if they had set up (for worship) aught beside Him, (all) that they did would have been vain.
- Those are they unto whom We gave the Scripture and command and prophethood. But if these disbelieve therein, then indeed We shall entrust it to a people who will not be disbelievers therein.
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thedavidwilson
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I believe the verse you quote was spoken by Jesus before he was crucified. He (Jesus) was sending out his apostles out to preach the Good News. After Jesus was resurrected he gave other instructions to go out to all nations which I believe was quoted by another poster.
Where did you get this line of argument? Do muslims have websites full of false arguments or do you just pick two random verses without considering their context or interpretation by the people of the time or the Church?
Another example of the deceit that permeates islam.
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inJESUS
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they read the “best” of their scholars and they quote them…they forget that not only they misrepresent the teachings by selecting quotes out of context, but they give a totally blind eye to the history of the church were the apostles established churches in gentiles lands in the first century and the fact that the ones who are talking to them on this forum are “gentiles”. But Islam and history do not get along very well because history is wiped out if Muhammad says otherwise…so if Muhammad says Jesus, or actually Issa, was given the “Injeel”, they believe that Jesus brought a book, and not 4 gospels “according to Marc, Matthew ecc” even though history proves them wrong…so the best answer out of this dilema is “corruption”.
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wisdomseeker
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So i would say that if God did not prevent the Torah and the Bible from corruption, this means that the Quran is also corrupted.
their assumption falls apart right here.
is the same argument with protestant about the Church. that the Church got corrupted by man. but they somehow fixed the problem and now they have the Truth. if you know what i mean.
Jews and Muslims
Catholics and protestants.
does this ring a bell?
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wisdomseeker
Guest
is it your intention to hold muhammad to be greater than the Lord Jesus Christ?
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Angelos
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Muslims believe that Jesus was a simple messenger sent only to Israel with no universal message and mission since they also believe that Mohammad was the only messenger sent to the whole world. Although the Koran claims that Mohammad was a universal prophet, it contradictorily states that the scripture of Islam addressed only Mohammad’s folk:
Surah 43:43-44
So hold thou fast to that which is inspired in thee. Lo! thou art on a right path. And lo! it is in truth a Reminder for thee and for thy folk; and ye will be questioned.
Surah 43:3
Lo! We have appointed it a Lecture, in Arabic that haply ye may understand.
**Surah 42:7 **
And thus We have inspired in thee a Lecture in Arabic, that thou mayst warn the mother-town and those around it, and mayst warn of a day of assembling whereof there is no doubt.
Surah 28:46
And thou was not beside the Mount when We did call; but (the knowledge of it is) a mercy from thy Lord that** thou mayst warn a folk unto whom no warner came before thee**, that haply they may give heed.
Surah 26:198-199
And if We had revealed it unto one of any other nation than the Arabs, And he had read it unto them, they would not have believed in it.
This is one of the biggest problems caused by the Koran: Mohammad is claimed to be a universal prophet with a message confined to the Arabs of his time.
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wisdomseeker
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I confess i am very troubled by this prophet muhammad, either we believe him or we believe Jesus and the apostles. which i believe in Jesus and the apostles.Muslims believe that Jesus was a simple messenger sent only to Israel with no universal message and mission since they also believe that Mohammad was the only messenger sent to the whole world. Although the Koran claims that Mohammad was a universal prophet, it contradictorily states that the scripture of Islam addressed only Mohammad’s folk:
Surah 43:43-44
So hold thou fast to that which is inspired in thee. Lo! thou art on a right path. And lo! it is in truth a Reminder for thee and for thy folk; and ye will be questioned.
Surah 43:3
Lo! We have appointed it a Lecture, in Arabic that haply ye may understand.
**Surah 42:7 **
And thus We have inspired in thee a Lecture in Arabic, that thou mayst warn the mother-town and those around it, and mayst warn of a day of assembling whereof there is no doubt.
Surah 28:46
And thou was not beside the Mount when We did call; but (the knowledge of it is) a mercy from thy Lord that** thou mayst warn a folk unto whom no warner came before thee**, that haply they may give heed.
Surah 26:198-199
And if We had revealed it unto one of any other nation than the Arabs, And he had read it unto them, they would not have believed in it.
This is one of the biggest problems caused by the Koran: Mohammad is claimed to be a universal prophet with a message confined to the Arabs of his time.
for muhammad denies Jesus being the Son of God which Jesus call himself and God Himself says that Jesus is His Son and He has begotten Jesus. Muhammad on the other hand denies that God has begotten no one.
according to St Paul, if any one denies Christ for what He is, is to be called the anti Christ. Muhammad does just that.
So i have serious doubt that muhammad is a prophet from God.
blessings.
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Verisimilitude
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It is a clear decision to make once it is understood. Unfortunately many do not understand or seem to want to.
Muslims demand respect for their holy book.
St. Paul is a great example to Catholics in such times as today. Fearless for the Lord and always keeping his peace.
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Angelos
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Mohammad does not only deny the doctrine of the Trinity (specifically Jesus’ divinity), but also all other basic Christian tenets related to salvation and the Church (original sin, Jesus’ crucifixion and resurrection, sacraments, apostolic succession and ordained priesthood) since his notion of religion is not the same as the one stated in the Bible.
What Mohammad actually tried to do was adapt history as well as the messengers and scriptures of the other major or dominant faiths to the revelation he supposedly received from Allah. Thus, Mohammad’s understanding of revelation and religion was not continuous, but recurrently disrupted and distorted until his mission. He became the only and perseverant leader of a cult named Islam, which was essentially a political and earthly ideology aiming to conquer the whole world.
Blessings to you too
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hamba2han
Guest
Jesus (pbuh) is NOT the only “son of God” mentioned in the Bible:
Jacob is God’s son and firstborn: “Israel is my son, even my firstborn” Exodus 4:22.
Solomon is God’s son “He shall build an house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom for ever. I will be his father, and he shall be my son”: 2 Samuel 7:13-14.
Ephraim is God’s firstborn: “for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.” Jeremiah 31:9 (who is God’s firstborn? Israel or Ephraim?).
Adam is the son of God “Adam, which was the son of God.” Luke 3:38.
Common people (you and me) are the sons of God: “Ye are the children of the LORD your God” Deuteronomy 14:1. “For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God” Romans 8:14. “But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:” John 1:12. “That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;” Philippians 2:15. “Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: … now are we the sons of God” 1 John 3:1-2. “When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?” Job 38:7. “Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD,” Job 2:1. “Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD,” Job 1:6. “when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men,” Genesis 6:4. “That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they [were] fair” Genesis 6:2
And was Jesus the only begotten Son of God? (with a capital ‘S’ in the word ‘Son’ even!) … Read Psalms 2:7
"I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me (King David, King), Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee."
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. … The First Epistle General of John 2:22, King James Bible
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) most definitely did NOT deny that Prophet Jesus (pbuh) is the Christ.
Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah; … Al-Qur’an, 03.045
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inJESUS
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Angelos
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You somehow ignore the fact that Jesus is designated as the ONLY begotten of the Father in the New Testament:
John 1:18:
No man hath seen God at any time: the only begotten Son who is in the Bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son: that whosoever believeth in him may not perish, but may have life everlasting.
Which of the other sons of God was worshipped by demons?
Mark 3:11-12
And the unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him: and they cried, saying: Thou art the Son of God.
Which of the other sons of God was described as below:
Hebrews 1:1-3
God, who, at sundry times and in divers manners, spoke in times past to the fathers by the prophets, last of all, In these days, hath spoken to us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the world. Who being the brightness of his glory and the figure of his substance and upholding all things by the word of his power, making purgation of sins, sitteth on the right hand of the majesty on high.
You must be kidding to have quoted this verse! This is a clear reference to the Messiah and a prophecy that came true through Jesus. The Theophany at Jesus’ baptism and transiguration is related to this Messianic prediction.
You must read Psalm 2:1-2
Why have the Gentiles raged, and the people devised vain things? The kings of the earth stood up, and the princes met together, against the Lord, and against his Christ
According to the apostles, Christ is the Son, and the denial of the Son is equal to the denial of the Messiah. More to the point, your prophet identified Jesus as the ONLY Messiah without knowing the denotation and connotation of that title. There is not a single verse in your Koran that explains what the word Messiah means or why it is used as the second name of Jesus. The narrative of Jesus’ nativity and infancy in Surah 19 (Mecca period) uncannily avoids applying the title “Messiah” to Jesus.
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wisdomseeker
Guest
i agree. the Quran has very little history. there is no story of creation or people’s movement across time you know like the Hebrew Bible where we have history recorded through time about God and man communicating. So basically they have no knowledge of the prophecies about the Messiah.Mohammad does not only deny the doctrine of the Trinity (specifically Jesus’ divinity), but also all other basic Christian tenets related to salvation and the Church (original sin, Jesus’ crucifixion and resurrection, sacraments, apostolic succession and ordained priesthood) since his notion of religion is not the same as the one stated in the Bible.
What Mohammad actually tried to do was adapt history as well as the messengers and scriptures of the other major or dominant faiths to the revelation he supposedly received from Allah. Thus, Mohammad’s understanding of revelation and religion was not continuous, but recurrently disrupted and distorted until his mission. He became the only and perseverant leader of a cult named Islam, which was essentially a political and earthly ideology aiming to conquer the whole world.
Blessings to you too
that is one more prove that all nations were to come to the knowledge of God and His Son through the nation of Israel.
but it seems that the Quran does recognize the Torah being the Word of God to the Hebrews which reveals Jesus.
It seems to me that the Quran is a sort of counterpart for the NT.
correct me i am wrong.
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wisdomseeker
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Muhammad was a knowledge seeker. he advises his followers to value knowledge more than prayer. he says that his followers should seek knowledge even as far is going into China.Mohammad does not only deny the doctrine of the Trinity (specifically Jesus’ divinity), but also all other basic Christian tenets related to salvation and the Church (original sin, Jesus’ crucifixion and resurrection, sacraments, apostolic succession and ordained priesthood) since his notion of religion is not the same as the one stated in the Bible.
What Mohammad actually tried to do was adapt history as well as the messengers and scriptures of the other major or dominant faiths to the revelation he supposedly received from Allah. Thus, Mohammad’s understanding of revelation and religion was not continuous, but recurrently disrupted and distorted until his mission. He became the only and perseverant leader of a cult named Islam, which was essentially a political and earthly ideology aiming to conquer the whole world.
Blessings to you too
He clears denies Jesus being the Son, the Savior of the World.
Muhammad, :To spend more time in learning is better than spending more time in prayer."
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ralphinal
Guest
If I may take the other side in this. If Jesus is just one of many people who took the title son of God, some of whom were given it by God himself, why does Muhammed get rid of that title? Why is he not called a son of God? Why are others not? Why is everyone a slave again?
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swariffin
Guest
No way, brother. Muhammad did not spend his time for learning. Otherwise he would have realized that the Apocript books he copied (when he decribe Mary/Mariam and the story of the Crucifiction for instance) was the wrong bible.
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