Islam before Muhammad?

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I don’t think that what you mean by discipline is equivalent at all to what I mean by punishment.
Say: "Why then doth He punish you for your sins? Nay ye are but men,- of the men He hath created: He forgiveth whom He pleaseth and He punisheth whom He pleaseth

is this verse about the judgment day?

there is no such thing as “sons of God” means you will not end up in hell. You are a son if you choose it.
 
Cool. So the next time a Catholic says I should become a Catholic so that I can “know” that I’ll go to heaven, I’ll direct him/her to this post of yours
being a Catholic means you have the weapons to use…it does not mean you will use them.
 
It has to do with what men are able to understand.
man have been able to understand it for thousands of years and God knew and still knows it. Why will man stop understanding it after Muhammad?
Glad you feel that way.
it is not feelings. It is in the Bible.
You need to read the whole ayah, not just one line from it. For Christians and Jews to say they are children of God (which they do say) implies they have some special status in comparison to the rest of the world.
first, that is not true. Anyone can be a son of God if he chooses to…it is not about race/language/country. Second, the aya is about punishment. Again, neither Jews, nor Christians believe that the title means you can do whatever you want with a clear conscious…actually the Bible says as much as you given, as much as you are responsible so being sons of God is a huge responsibilty that is not guaranteed if we forsake it.
 
I am not His son.

You need to read the whole ayah, not just one line from it. For Christians and Jews to say they are children of God (which they do say) implies they have some special status in comparison to the rest of the world. But the Qur’an says that every human being God has created, and God can forgive whomever He wills (i.e., not just Christians) and punish whomever He wills (i.e., not just non-Christians).

In fact it more establishes the brotherhood of mankind which you and I have discussed before. 🙂
You probably do not know the verses below:

Surah 2:47
O Children of Israel! Remember My favour wherewith I favoured you and how I preferred you to (all) creatures.

Surah 3:33
Lo! Allah preferred Adam and Noah and the Family of Abraham and the Family of 'Imran above (all His) creatures.

The authors of the Koran were definitely unaware of your principle when they devised the verses above. The Koran states that some people have a special status in comparison to the rest of the world, and you criticise Jews for saying the same thing??? Weird.

Besides, I always believe and say that God is my heavenly father, but this does not mean that I deny being a part of God’s creation. Your scripture is definitely erroneous and unreasonable in the critique of Jews and Christians, for it is not true that Fathers not punish their children. Following the flawed argument of your book, I can ask you: “If you Muslims are the servants of God, how come you have free will to disbelieve?” 😉
 
what’s wrong Amy? do you think that joining the Church is enough to end up in heaven whether the person forsakes it or not?
No of course not, but last I checked, the Pope wasn’t asking me for doctrine…

Rather what surprised me was your word choice. If I had said that… I’d be crucified here.
 
You probably do not know the verses below:

Surah 2:47
O Children of Israel! Remember My favour wherewith I favoured you and how I preferred you to (all) creatures.

Surah 3:33
Lo! Allah preferred Adam and Noah and the Family of Abraham and the Family of 'Imran above (all His) creatures.

The authors of the Koran were definitely unaware of your principle when they devised the verses above. The Koran states that some people have a special status in comparison to the rest of the world, and you criticise Jews for saying the same thing??? Weird.

Besides, I always believe and say that God is my heavenly father, but this does not mean that I deny being a part of God’s creation. Your scripture is definitely erroneous and unreasonable in the critique of Jews and Christians, for it is not true that Fathers not punish their children. Following the flawed argument of your book, I can ask you: “If you Muslims are the servants of God, how come you have free will to disbelieve?” 😉
As we all know, I never ever ever make mistakes and I always have the answers. That must be why you concluded that the Qur’an is wrong…

c’mon

I think I’ve gone a little out of my league here. That’s all. 🙂
 
No of course not, but last I checked, the Pope wasn’t asking me for doctrine…

Rather what surprised me was your word choice. If I had said that… I’d be crucified here.
crucified? you’ve been long time enough on this forum to realize that it it not enough to be “called” a Catholic.
 
I prefer to believe that most of the people I interact with on this forum represent only a small minority of Catholics who are extreme in their interpretation and excessively belligerent towards anyone who they might perceive as less perfect in their application of faith.

I get plenty of PMs by the way, from Catholics, telling me that not all Catholics are like the ones who I end up engaging with in these threads. I like to believe them. 🙂
 
No of course not, but last I checked, the Pope wasn’t asking me for doctrine…

Rather what surprised me was your word choice. If I had said that… I’d be crucified here.
You might be, but then we could say that Sister Amy was crucified not and start a whole new thread or two 😉

Actually, the whole salvation discussion would be a good one. Catholics do not accept the idea of once saved always saved. Do Muslims? IF I become Muslim, am I assured salvation?
 
You might be, but then we could say that Sister Amy was crucified not and start a whole new thread or two 😉

Actually, the whole salvation discussion would be a good one. Catholics do not accept the idea of once saved always saved. Do Muslims? IF I become Muslim, am I assured salvation?
Definitely not.

Muslims are supposed to always have hope in God’s mercy, and fear of His punishment, while being driven by love for Him.

There’s a saying that everyone who dies believing laa ilaaha illa Allah will make it to Paradise (I think.) But just by being a Muslim isn’t a guarantee–because the person could go astray. He could live his whole life like a person of Paradise and then do one act at the end of his life which causes him to go to hellfire. And just the opposite as well, by the way. One act which takes him to heaven. Ultimately Muslims believe that it is God who judges us–and there is an idea that many people will be thrown into hellfire first as a punishment for their sins, and then later brought into Paradise.

So being Muslim isn’t a guarantee of anything but that one has the revelation and the shari’ah and the guidance to try to stay on the straight path.
 
Definitely not.

Muslims are supposed to always have hope in God’s mercy, and fear of His punishment, while being driven by love for Him.

There’s a saying that everyone who dies believing laa ilaaha illa Allah will make it to Paradise (I think.) But just by being a Muslim isn’t a guarantee–because the person could go astray. He could live his whole life like a person of Paradise and then do one act at the end of his life which causes him to go to hellfire. And just the opposite as well, by the way. One act which takes him to heaven. Ultimately Muslims believe that it is God who judges us–and there is an idea that many people will be thrown into hellfire first as a punishment for their sins, and then later brought into Paradise.

So being Muslim isn’t a guarantee of anything but that one has the revelation and the shari’ah and the guidance to try to stay on the straight path.
The concept is close to similar, what we do or do not do can cause us to go to hell.

Now, for us hell is permanant.
 
Would God send one of his “children” to hell permanently?
Here is the issue with understanding.

When God “sends” someone to hell, that person basically has told God, through the way he lived, that he does not want to be with him. In effect, that person chooses hell instead of God.

It is like a judge giving someone a life sentence. Yes, the judge pronounces it, but the criminal earned it first.
 
I don’t think you answered my question. Would God send one of his children to hell?
 
I don’t think you answered my question. Would God send one of his children to hell?
he did answer. Being son of God is by no means a ticket to heaven if you get rid of the relationship that denotes it…being a son is behaving like one…faith and work accordingly…if you consciously choose to rebel, you are responsible for your own choice, not God.
 
he did answer. Being son of God is by no means a ticket to heaven if you get rid of the relationship that denotes it…being a son is behaving like one…faith and work accordingly…if you consciously choose to rebel, you are responsible for your own choice, not God.
From previous conversations with Muslims on this site, this is a major issue. According to them, God sends people to hell, people do not choose it. We see God as being a true judge: you chose the crime, you do the time. It is fair and not partial.
 
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