Islam & Christianity, which religion is more logical?

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I hope Amoon or another muslim will answer this:

We both believe Jesus is alive, we both believe Jesus is the one to come back on the last day for judgement, we both believe Jesus’s mother Mary was a virgin / stayed a virgin / and even ascended into Heaven.

If Jesus is still alive and His earthly mother is still alive; why would God have such a “special” favor for them?

Why is it Jesus that comes back on the last day and not muhammad?

Muhammad is dead, he never cured the sick, never had power to forgive sins, never alter or multiplied matter (water into wine, feeding over thousands etc.) but yet muslims believe muhammad is the excellent example for humans to live; why? (didn’t the angels come to Abraham, Moses, and other prophets)

Islam says Jesus is the word of God and the Spirit of God…Is the Word of God not God? How can the Word of God not be God or the Spirit of God not God?
 
Contarini said:
You seem to be using “logical” in a way similar to the way the OP is using it. I guess I have problems with this use of the word. It seem to boil down to “common sense” or “what we would naturally expect.” But the beauty of logic, it seems to me, is that it frequently violates our commonsense expectations.

The idea of heaven as the endless contemplation/worship of God seems entirely logical to me.

God is ultimate goodness/beauty/truth.
Heaven is the ultimate enjoyment of that which is best, truest, most beautiful.
Therefore, heaven is best described as the contemplation/enjoyment of God.

Edwin
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Fine 👍
 
Amoon said:
Which religion is more logical?

God
Islam: God is One.
Christianity: god is one in three?

Jesus
I: The Prophet of God and his Word. He said to him be and he was.
C: god? son of god?

Mary
I: The mother of Jesus. A virgin who gave birth to Jesus by the miracle of God without being touched by any man.
The best woman of all nations.
C: Mother of god?

Creation
I: God is the creator and He created Jesus and the Holy Spirit and the universe, and He is the only one to be worshiped.
C: Is Jesus a creator or a creation?

Quran
I: The word of God revealed to his final messenger Mohammed through Angel Gabriel.
The unchanged book.
A book with no author except God.
C: A false book?
The author is Muhammed?

Bible
I: A revelation sent to Prophet Jesus as the Torah was revealed to Prophet Moses.
Muslims believe in all the revelations of God but follow the Quran only as God preserves it from change and corruption.
C: Was the Bible not changed?

Perfection
I: God is perfect who does not need to eat or sleep or any human needs.
God does not die.
C: god eats and sleeps and dies too?

Forgiveness
I: No one can forgive sins but God.
We seek forgiveness from God directly.
No mediation between a man and God.
C: god forgives sins after confessing to a priest?
Isn’t priest a man who can sin too?

Images and idols
I: It is forbidden to make images and idols of God and his Prophets.
C: Images and idols of god are allowed?
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You omitted a very important “logical” point

**Conversion/Subjugation
**

I: Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing…
but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"

C: Force, violence, or fraud may not be employed to bring about the conversion of an unbeliever. Such means would be sinful. The natural law, the law of Christ, the nature of faith, the teaching and practice of the Church forbid such means.* Credere voluntatis est,* to believe depends upon the free will.

newadvent.org/cathen/04347a.htm

All I need to know about Islam, I learned on September 9th 2001.

As far as this thread is concerned, I find it very illogical to consider a political ideology that resorts to force and violence to subjugate those who do not accept it… a religion.
 
meltzerboy said:
Great apologetic!

I have a question for you and other Christians, and hope it doesn’t divert too much from the topic of the OP. I’ve often wondered what exactly the title Son of G-d means in Christianity? I know it doesn’t mean son in the literal, human sense, and I’ve also heard it expresses the relationship of love between G-d the Father and G-d the Son. But why is Jesus called the Son if He is G-d from the beginning together with the Father. Is it perhaps due to His being also fully HUMAN, as well as fully divine, as G-d Incarnate? IOW, why is Jesus never called G-d the Father if each Person of the Trinity is “contained” in the other Person? Why the distinctiveness of the Persons as revealed in the names given to Them?
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I believe in it, and I barely understand it…

The Father is truly and completely God.
The Son is truly and completely God. And after His conception, was also truly and completely human, like us in all things except sin. He is eternally begotten (not made or created) of the Father.
The Spirit is truly and completely God, and proceeds from the Father (and according to the Catholic Church, “and the Son” [Filioque]).
However, despite Each being truly and completely God, Each is also a distinct Person.

There’s a figure I see in heraldry sometimes, it shows three circles arranged in a triangle, with a circle in the centre. Each circle is connected to the other three by a line.

The outer circles say (usually in Latin) “Father”, “Son”, and “Holy Spirit”, and the central circle says “God”.

The lines connecting “Father”, “Son”, and “Holy Spirit” to “God” all say “is”; the lines connecting each to each other all say “is not”.

…Yeah, makes me :whacky: too, but there you go.
 
meltzerboy said:
Great apologetic!

I have a question for you and other Christians, and hope it doesn’t divert too much from the topic of the OP. I’ve often wondered what exactly the title Son of G-d means in Christianity? I know it doesn’t mean son in the literal, human sense, and I’ve also heard it expresses the relationship of love between G-d the Father and G-d the Son. But why is Jesus called the Son if He is G-d from the beginning together with the Father. Is it perhaps due to His being also fully HUMAN, as well as fully divine, as G-d Incarnate? IOW, why is Jesus never called G-d the Father if each Person of the Trinity is “contained” in the other Person? Why the distinctiveness of the Persons as revealed in the names given to Them?
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Those are good questions meltzerboy and difficult for many Christians to fully understand and explain.
 
Amoon said:
Which religion is more logical?

God
Islam: God is One.
Christianity: god is one in three?

Jesus
I: The Prophet of God and his Word. He said to him be and he was.
C: god? son of god?

Mary
I: The mother of Jesus. A virgin who gave birth to Jesus by the miracle of God without being touched by any man.
The best woman of all nations.
C: Mother of god?

Creation
I: God is the creator and He created Jesus and the Holy Spirit and the universe, and He is the only one to be worshiped.
C: Is Jesus a creator or a creation?

Quran
I: The word of God revealed to his final messenger Mohammed through Angel Gabriel.
The unchanged book.
A book with no author except God.
C: A false book?
The author is Muhammed?

Bible
I: A revelation sent to Prophet Jesus as the Torah was revealed to Prophet Moses.
Muslims believe in all the revelations of God but follow the Quran only as God preserves it from change and corruption.
C: Was the Bible not changed?

Perfection
I: God is perfect who does not need to eat or sleep or any human needs.
God does not die.
C: god eats and sleeps and dies too?

Forgiveness
I: No one can forgive sins but God.
We seek forgiveness from God directly.
No mediation between a man and God.
C: god forgives sins after confessing to a priest?
Isn’t priest a man who can sin too?

Images and idols
I: It is forbidden to make images and idols of God and his Prophets.
C: Images and idols of god are allowed?
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Are you actually concerned with what is more logical? Or with what was more simple so that uneducated desert nomads in the seventh century could grasp it?
 
Randy_Carson said:
Are you actually concerned with what is more logical? Or with what was more simple so that uneducated desert nomads in the seventh century could grasp it?
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You’re implying that education and complexity somehow make something more true. That is not the case. Also, those uneducated desert nomads weren’t actually just uneducated desert nomads (Muhammad didn’t start out in the middle of nowhere, but in two rather important trading towns) and they weren’t that much different in terms of education or permanent roots than the Jews of the OT or of Christ’s time.
 
Randy_Carson said:
Are you actually concerned with what is more logical? Or with what was more simple so that uneducated desert nomads in the seventh century could grasp it?
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That is not very charitable. How educated were the early Jews who received the oral tradition of the Torah or how educated were many of the people who heard the gospel being evangelized?
 
Amoon said:
.

C: god eats and sleeps and dies too?
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Man is spirit and flesh, the spirit part does not… sleep or die, and need food, only the flesh part of Jesus needed these things, just like you and I, the difference was the spirit part of Jesus was divine.
 
7_Sorrows said:
That is not very charitable. How educated were the early Jews who received the oral tradition of the Torah or how educated were many of the people who heard the gospel being evangelized?
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But you don’t want to let the wrong information get into the hands of uneducated people. 🙂
 
When you make the rhetorical question: God is three in one?

I assume that that this is rhetorical? Or are you sincerely asking what we believe? Muslims rarely want to engage with actual trinitarianism.
 
I posted this explanation in another thread sometime back in an attempt to explain the Trinity to Muslim and Baha’i posters, and it may be of some assistance here. (Meltzerboy, this may help address your inquiry somewhat, although it is not directly on point)

This was in response to a question about why it seems sometimes in the Gospels that Jesus refers to himself as God and sometimes not:

Your difficulties are understandable and your questions are reasonable. The answer lies in an explanation of the Christian understanding of God as Trinity and further the hypostatic union of the two natures of Jesus.

First however, I think it is incumbent to explain that Christians use the term “God” in different ways and depending on the context it can mean different things. I will try to point this out as I go through my explanation.

Christians believe in one God. We believe that this one God is triune (consisting of three in one) in nature, that is to say that the one God exists in three co-equal and co-eternal persons, namely the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Each of these persons is fully and completely God, meaning that the Father is 100% God, the Son is 100% God, and the Holy Spirit is 100% God. At the same time, however, each person is separate and distinct from the other two, meaning that the Father is not the Son or the Holy Spirit; the Son is not the Father or the Holy Spirit; and the Holy Spirit is not the Father or the Son. These are the basics of the Trinity, but we have to get more nuanced to even begin to grasp what these basics mean (and even when we understand the Trinity to the full extent that our limited human minds can understand it, we’ve only just begun to scratch the surface of the fullness of the truth.)

Here is where I should clarify how when Christians use the term “God” we can mean different things. Christians often refer to the Father, the First Person of the Trinity, simply as “God.” However, when we say Jesus is God, we do not mean that Jesus is the Father. Rather, we mean that Jesus is divine. He is the Son, the Second Person of the Trinity. He is the same God that the Father is, but mysteriously, in a way that we cannot understand, he is not the Father.

Now, Christians believe that in addition to being fully God, Jesus was also fully man. We believe Jesus has two natures, a divine nature and a human nature. We believe that Jesus has existed in his divine nature from all eternity as the Son, the second person of the Trinity. We believe that when Jesus came down to earth he kept this divine nature but also took on a human nature so that he truly became man, one of us. Therefore we say that Jesus is at the same time both 100% God and 100% man. These two natures exist in perfect harmony, yet remain distinct from one another. We refer to this existence as the hypostatic union. We further believe that because Jesus has two natures, he also has two wills, a divine will and a human will. Again, as with his two natures, the divine will and the human will exist in perfect harmony, yet remain distinct from one another. This is why, while Jesus is God, he says things such as “Not My will, but Thine…” In such instances, he is speaking in his human nature and referring to his human will, while at the same time still retaining his divine nature and divine will.

So while it may sound like “now I’m god, now I’m not,” it really is “now I’m God, and I’m not.”
 
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Don’t you just love threads where a Muslim comes along, posts something, then disappears and we all watch our beloved Christian friends (with a sprinkling of Jew (Hi meltzerboy 😉 )) debate about all the pros and cons of Islam from a non-Islamic perspective?

🙂

.
 
Servant19 said:
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Don’t you just love threads where a Muslim comes along, posts something, then disappears and we all watch our beloved Christian friends (with a sprinkling of Jew (Hi meltzerboy 😉 )) debate about all the pros and cons of Islam from a non-Islamic perspective?

🙂

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All are always welcome to share and comment. If the muslim wish to give their perspective they are welcomed. If a Christian wanted full Islamic perspective maybe they could search out an Islam forum.

But you and muslims wish to come and ask on a Catholic forum and we are more than willing and happy to discuss.
 
Servant19 said:
.

Don’t you just love threads where a Muslim comes along, posts something, then disappears and we all watch our beloved Christian friends (with a sprinkling of Jew (Hi meltzerboy 😉 )) debate about all the pros and cons of Islam from a non-Islamic perspective?

🙂

.
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So what is more true Trinity or Islam’s God?
 
hiramross said:
All are always welcome to share and comment. If the muslim wish to give their perspective they are welcomed. If a Christian wanted full Islamic perspective maybe they could search out an Islam forum.

But you and muslims wish to come and ask on a Catholic forum and we are more than willing and happy to discuss.
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God bless you friend, I appreciate what you say 🙂

I just cannot believe why a Muslim would post such as they did in the OP and just disappear after 3 pages…I was simply sharing the comedy with my beloved Catholic friends 🙂

.
 
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