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eichenb2
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Conflicted should reported for abuse! How do we do that?
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Iwesshome
Guest
I just did but all you need is to click the triangle on the upper right corner of the post.
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Iwesshome
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Conflicted, your immature bigotry of a rant won’t be tolerated nor respected. Not everyone on these forums will ever agree on anything but there are ways to handle discussions. Yes, there are forum members no matter Christian or Muslim that will not see eye-to-eye. Yes, there will be discussions posted by Christian or Muslim’s that others will not agree to the topic or subject matter. As long as there is a NC section within these forums there will be debates on many topics of many different religious viewpoints. How one conducts themselves in a professional matter is the issue and for the last several weeks this has not been the case.
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MrDickerson
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We are called “Christians” because we are followers of the God-Man, Christ. Yet the Koran blasphemously calls us “Nazarenes” (because Jesus was from Nazareth?) I’ll continue to call you “Mohammedans”, or better, “Mahometans”, as I please.
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dzheremi
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Hmmm. I’d think it better to not stoop to the level of replicating what you do not like about the Qur’an in interacting with its followers…
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Muslim_Woman
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** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **
http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif
By Anthony
…I put aside my Book of Mormon, and picked up the Bible…As I studied, I noticed how Christ taught only to the Jews. He would not preach to anyone except the children of Israel. Studying his life closely, I noticed that this man did not follow any religion that actually exists today. He was a follower of God’s law as it was sent to the Jews in the past. Right there, my religion was questionable.
I also read in the book of Acts that the apostles would not eat pork or any other foods that were earlier prohibited by God. In the other books, the followers of Christ (peace be upon him) would follow all of the laws and traditions which God had sent down in the past. Neither my religion nor any other Christians that I knew followed this example.
Studying it even closer, I saw that all Christian churches relied upon the teachings of Paul, whose letters actually contradicted many of the words of Jesus (peace be upon him). Now I knew that my religion was definitely in question.
I Finally Figured It Out
By Thomas*
I started the first 22 years of my life as a Protestant Christian. However, it was during high school when I began wondering why so many hours of so many Sundays of my life were spent singing praise-songs that sounded a little too contemporary for a formal and holy service for God.
My parents had agreed with me, saying how they preferred the more conservative hymns like “Amazing Grace” and “Rock of Ages.” But in my mind, conservative was once contemporary.
Deep down I was questioning the process that determined these Christian standards of praising and worshipping God.
Did Jesus (peace be upon him) sing these kinds of songs for the Sabbath, and so are Christians then following his example, as indeed the original Christians had been doing?
http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif
An American Mormon’s Journey to Islam
By Anthony
…I put aside my Book of Mormon, and picked up the Bible…As I studied, I noticed how Christ taught only to the Jews. He would not preach to anyone except the children of Israel. Studying his life closely, I noticed that this man did not follow any religion that actually exists today. He was a follower of God’s law as it was sent to the Jews in the past. Right there, my religion was questionable.
I also read in the book of Acts that the apostles would not eat pork or any other foods that were earlier prohibited by God. In the other books, the followers of Christ (peace be upon him) would follow all of the laws and traditions which God had sent down in the past. Neither my religion nor any other Christians that I knew followed this example.
Studying it even closer, I saw that all Christian churches relied upon the teachings of Paul, whose letters actually contradicted many of the words of Jesus (peace be upon him). Now I knew that my religion was definitely in question.
I Finally Figured It Out
By Thomas*
I started the first 22 years of my life as a Protestant Christian. However, it was during high school when I began wondering why so many hours of so many Sundays of my life were spent singing praise-songs that sounded a little too contemporary for a formal and holy service for God.
My parents had agreed with me, saying how they preferred the more conservative hymns like “Amazing Grace” and “Rock of Ages.” But in my mind, conservative was once contemporary.
Deep down I was questioning the process that determined these Christian standards of praising and worshipping God.
Did Jesus (peace be upon him) sing these kinds of songs for the Sabbath, and so are Christians then following his example, as indeed the original Christians had been doing?
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Agabriel
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Mostly what Muslims consider as being hatred is just telling the truth about Muhammed and Islam’s history of violence that is still going on in many parts of the world. They are not used to discussing Muhammed as he presents himself in the Quran and Hadiths. In fact, people have died for doing just that. We have the internet and anonymous ids to protect us from that, along with the freedom of expression - which is limited due to rules of the forum, but still it is more than what people in Muslim countries have now. And they are not really used to us discussing Muhammed.
I wonder if you are studying Islam or just listening to a cleric tell you what you should know. If I read the fairy tales from the Muslims on this site only without knowing its Quran, hadiths and history, I might be fooled into thinking that it is ok too. It is not ok.
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dzheremi
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If all religions are a test from God meant to teach of diversity, then it is even more clear that Islam is NOT from God, since the doctrines of Islam are certainly, how shall we put it…less than up to code when it comes to tolerating other religions.
Where is the “diversity, equality, and harmony” in that? You’re being deceived, Iwesshome.
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Sister_Amy
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Excuse me, but I wasn’t being condescending. It certainly wasn’t my intent at all to talk down to you, and I don’t think I ever could since the quality of your own posting far surpasses my own.
But I stand by my point, which I think makes perfect sense. Let’s start with saying what makes a scripture legitimate in the first place. For Muslims, it has to be firstly revealed by God, and secondly to a Messenger. And lastly, for the text to be relevant today, then it’s necessary that the scripture be preserved. These are three loose criteria that I just came up with for the purpose of explaining this topic–I didn’t find them in a book or something, so if you find error with them, then it’s my fault.
So, there are 5 scriptures that Muslims believe in. The first is the scripture of Abraham. It was (1) revealed by God, (2) to Abraham, but (3) not preserved. There’s practically no trace of it anymore. But Muslims believe in it, because God mentions it. The second scripture is the Torah, which Muslims believe was (1) revealed by God, (2) to Moses, but (3) not preserved. It exists more or less in the Jewish Bible but Muslims don’t consider it to be 100% preserved (in both meaning and language even), although they do believe in it. Thirdly, Muslims believe in the Psalms, revealed by God to David (1+2) but they don’t believe it’s been entirely or perfectly preserved, even though you find it also in the Jewish Bible.
Fourthly, Muslims believe in something called the Injeel, revealed by God to Jesus (1+2), which was not preserved. The best way to explain this is to say that Muslims believe in what Jesus was teaching. The Gospel, you could say. The Gospel which is mentioned in the book of Mark, and in other New Testament books, for instance. It is the message which Jesus was teaching to his followers, and to the children of Israel. That’s what Muslims believe in, even though it wasn’t preserved. (3).
The last book Muslims believe in is the Qur’an, which was (1) revealed by God (2) to Muhammad, and since then has been (3) perfectly preserved, in language and in meaning in the hearts of the Muslims.
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Sister_Amy
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I’m not sure who you were quoting, but they gave you the wrong ayah. 3:35 actually says: (Remember) when the wife of 'Imran said: “O my Lord! I have vowed to You what (the child that) is in my womb to be dedicated for Your services (free from all worldly work; to serve Your Place of worship), so accept this, from me. Verily, You are the All-Hearer, the All-Knowing.”
I think they meant 3:85 but gave you the wrong reference.
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Sister_Amy
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Interesting complaint. The Qur’an calls Christians two things, actually, neither of which is “Nazarenes” exactly. The word in the Qur’an you’re taking as such is An-Nasaaraa. Does it mean “Nazarene?” I really don’t know. I haven’t the knowledge the argue that it is or isn’t equivalent. I’ve heard some people say “Nazarene” and some people say “Nazarites.” But what I find interesting is that the term “Nazarene” appears in the Bible. It’s known as a name for early Christians. Is it then so blasphemous? Really?
The other thing that the Qur’an calls Christians is the People of the Book. That is when they are included with the Jews. The Jews alone are called two different things other than People of the Book. They are the Children of Israel, and the Jews (Yahud).
I’ve never heard a Christian complain before about the Qur’an calling Christians “AnNasaaraa.” But if you want to call Muslims “Mohammadans” or some other nonsense, you’re only showing yourself to be willfully ignorant. Embarrassing you more than me. Because I know you’re wrong, and so does just about everyone else, even you. And that you like to persist in your error doesn’t say much good about you. While it doesn’t harm Islam, or Muslims, in the least.
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Sister_Amy
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I dare you and Vickie both to pick up a Qur’an and read it the whole way through. I double dare you. Only the trick is to ask God, before hand, that if there really is truth in it, to let you see it. And to ask that sincerely. Otherwise you’re just like a blind man putting on glasses. It’s not gonna help you see if you’re already blind.
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Bill_Pick
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NO Christian believe that Our Lord did not die on the cross,and No Christian believe he lived until the age of 123 years old, and NO Christian believe He was married and had many wifes.And all Christien believe in the Bible and not some fairty tales and most Christians do not believe in the Quran…Any person that does not believe the crucifixion was never a Christian.He couldn’t have been a devout Catholic if he didn’t believe in the crucifixion and what it means.
Sounds pretty phony! He picks up a Quran and bingo! he instantly accepts what’s in it! Bogus!
Vickie
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dzheremi
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Not a problem. I will accept your criteria as those that are most useful and necessary to you. It’s not really necessary that I agree with them, from that perspective.
Interesting. I don’t for a second agree, but it’s still interesting. For one thing, I don’t understand the point of saying that you believe in books that don’t meet your own criteria. I know you say that you believe it because God mentions it, and that’s good, but you have also told me that Muslims believe that God purposefully chose not to preserve His scriptures until Islam came (I do not remember the exact thread, but I can look it up if need be). So, God in Islam thinks that the past scriptures are important enough that you should believe in them, but simultaneously not important enough to preserve?
The Injeel…it’s a book, it’s not a book…it’s some sort of metaphor for the teachings of Jesus…who can keep track of all the things it is or isn’t! It’s a shame it was not preserved, because that would answer a lot of questions for both of us. Among them, I would like to know the answer to my previous question: Why was it called the “Injil” (which comes from Greek) and not “al-Bushra”, which is a perfectly good Arabic word which is the “good news” (‘the message’, as it were)? “Evangelion”, as I understand it (hopefully one of the Melkites will jump in and correct me if I am wrong), refers both to a collection of the Gospels (e.g., a literal book, which the Injil apparently isn’t) and the message contained therein. Since Muslims do not want to accept that message of eternal life through Jesus Christ, why do they use this word that they apparently do not know refers precisely to that message? Alas, so much for the “pure Arabic” of the Qur’an…
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dzheremi
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Indeed. Apologies, 3:85 is the verse. A nasty bit of business that is. Very much against this idea of diversity and equality being behind all religions.
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Sister_Amy
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I didn’t expect you to agree.Not a problem. I will accept your criteria as those that are most useful and necessary to you. It’s not really necessary that I agree with them, from that perspective.
Not true–only the first two criteria are the reason for believing in a book. The last is to make it relevant today, for all mankind.
The originals are preserved on a Tablet with God, according to Islam. But there is a final version for mankind–and that’s the only one that needs to be preserved. Isn’t it?I know you say that you believe it because God mentions it, and that’s good, but you have also told me that Muslims believe that God purposefully chose not to preserve His scriptures until Islam came (I do not remember the exact thread, but I can look it up if need be). So, God in Islam thinks that the past scriptures are important enough that you should believe in them, but simultaneously not important enough to preserve?
Perhaps I underestimated you?
I don’t have question about it, really.
Luke 20:1 One day as he was teaching the people in the temple courts and preaching the gospel, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, together with the elders, came up to him.
What Gospel was “Luke” talking about? The book he was writing? I think not.
Acts 8:25 When they had testified and proclaimed the word of the Lord, Peter and John returned to Jerusalem, preaching the gospel in many Samaritan villages. Same phrase, same author, different book. What gospel were they preaching? The same Gospel Jesus was preaching is what I reckon. Which the Qur’an mysteriously calls “Injeel.” Why? I don’t know.
Why it bothers you is more an interesting question to me. What was the Greek word used, I wonder?I think your understanding is flawed, actually. Since you assume the message Jesus was preaching was about death and resurrection. But I find him teaching many other things, but not Trinity, not worship of himself, nor what else you claim, exactly. So…
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Sister_Amy
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Not really. Islam is the truth. But theoretically, if God sends you the truth and you decide to do something else, why should you expect him to expect your decision to follow falsehood?
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Bill_Pick
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The 9/11 attacks committed by jews,Please show your prove of this statement…
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josie_L
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Bill, he was being faceticious, or rather mocking those who believe that 9/11 and the Mumbai attacks were done by Jews and/or Zionists instead of Muslim terrorists.
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josie_L
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No, I don’t, kids are not enslaved to their parents (no matter how dependent or in whatever sense you concoct), they are gifts of God (therefore must be looked after diligently lest they lose or destroy that gift), not possessions they own (like a slave that has been bought). Dependency does not in this case, in any sense, mean enslavement.What I meant by the section in bold is that many Christians do not read all of their scriptures. The Bible contains many books which are hardly ever opened by the vast majority of Christians. Even among the ones who read the Bible, they pretty much stick to the New Testament and a few selections in the Old rather than reading the whole thing. And therefore there are major parts of their “tradition” in the Bible of which the average Christian is completely ignorant. Whereas Muslims read the whole Qur’an, at the very least, once every year.
Secondly, I do not live in a hole, nor do I “ignore” acts of violence perpetrated by Muslims or others. I seek to attribute them to the correct source, which is sometimes political, sometimes social, and practically NEVER religious. Imagine if the G20 protesters were Muslim, or if it were in some Muslim country. People would go on again about how violent Muslims were. But in Western countries when non-Muslims are protesting, even with violence, even with riots, it’s okay? Whatever.
Lastly there is something in the Qur’an about those who call themselves Children of God.
P.S. If anyones a slave it is the parent who diligently looks after his/her child. Just ask any mother with an infant who gets up multiple times during the night, at the crying demand of a hungry or sick child.
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