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neploho
Guest
lol.
You, R_Not, and a few others keep me young.
Disturbing and shockingly ill informed, but always ammusing.
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You, R_Not, and a few others keep me young.
Disturbing and shockingly ill informed, but always ammusing.
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jakasaki
Guest
Since we are contributing to your “youthfulness”, kindly explain to us than how are we “ill informed”lol.
You, R_Not, and a few others keep me young.
Disturbing and shockingly ill informed, but always ammusing.
Enlighten us, that’s a start!
A
almosthome1
Guest
I am not a convert but nearly did I suppose. As it was explained to me, it sounded wonderful, they stories they would tell of its foundation and such seemed really divine. I however had a few issues from the get go, first respect for Jesus and believing in His divinity are two different things. The Bible clearly says that those that deny the divinity of Jesus Christ are antichrists, it doesn’t say those that show Him a lack of respect. That particular issue always circled through my mind during my studies. Second, I was a little put off by the fact that all one has to do is recite a phrase in Arabic and boom they are now a Muslim, there is no understanding of the religion required. That did not mesh well with me, so I studied for a little over a year. Now, here is where I ran into more issues. First, I do not speak Arabic, so I had a copy of the Quran in English, which many stated was a very good translation. Now, when I would have a question or something didn’t make sense to me, or whatever I was consistantly told that it was a bad translation, but it was still not clarified, apparantely I had to learn Arabic to understand 
. Then was the issue of these wonderful stories people would tell me were simply not true, for example many people told me that Muhammed (who all agree was illiterate) wrote the Quran and that was a miracle. Now, I definately believe that God is fully capable of making an illerate person literate, but a simple google search will show you that he did not write it, nor was it written while he was alive. I was also put off by the compilation of the Quran, it wasn’t organized by Muhammed or even during his lifetime, it simply organized by length of sura, yet some the information or permissions that were granted to Muhammed were (according to various scholars) situation specific apparently, but how would one know that when it is believed to be the literal word of God, written easy enough of the simpliest to understand, why is my overeducated behind now confused?
Really, underneath it all I could not and would abandoned Jesus, to deny His divinity is not something I am prepared to do, and have recently thrown myself fully back into my Catholicism, and I am currently reading the complete Catechism of the Catholic Church to perhaps clear up some of my initial conerns that led me away to begin with.
Peace in Christ
. Then was the issue of these wonderful stories people would tell me were simply not true, for example many people told me that Muhammed (who all agree was illiterate) wrote the Quran and that was a miracle. Now, I definately believe that God is fully capable of making an illerate person literate, but a simple google search will show you that he did not write it, nor was it written while he was alive. I was also put off by the compilation of the Quran, it wasn’t organized by Muhammed or even during his lifetime, it simply organized by length of sura, yet some the information or permissions that were granted to Muhammed were (according to various scholars) situation specific apparently, but how would one know that when it is believed to be the literal word of God, written easy enough of the simpliest to understand, why is my overeducated behind now confused?Really, underneath it all I could not and would abandoned Jesus, to deny His divinity is not something I am prepared to do, and have recently thrown myself fully back into my Catholicism, and I am currently reading the complete Catechism of the Catholic Church to perhaps clear up some of my initial conerns that led me away to begin with.
Peace in Christ
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Sister_Amy
Guest
I seemed to have lost track of what this thread was about.
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jakasaki
Guest
I am not a convert but nearly did I suppose. As it was explained to me, it sounded wonderful, they stories they would tell of its foundation and such seemed really divine. I however had a few issues from the get go, first respect for Jesus and believing in His divinity are two different things. The Bible clearly says that those that deny the divinity of Jesus Christ are antichrists, it doesn’t say those that show Him a lack of respect. That particular issue always circled through my mind during my studies. Second, I was a little put off by the fact that all one has to do is recite a phrase in Arabic and boom they are now a Muslim, there is no understanding of the religion required. That did not mesh well with me, so I studied for a little over a year. Now, here is where I ran into more issues. First, I do not speak Arabic, so I had a copy of the Quran in English, which many stated was a very good translation. Now, when I would have a question or something didn’t make sense to me, or whatever I was consistantly told that it was a bad translation, but it was still not clarified, apparantely I had to learn Arabic to understand
Really, underneath it all I could not and would abandoned Jesus, to deny His divinity is not something I am prepared to do, and have recently thrown myself fully back into my Catholicism, and I am currently reading the complete Catechism of the Catholic Church to perhaps clear up some of my initial conerns that led me away to begin with.
Peace in Christ
Peace in Christ indeed!!!May God help you along your journey to find what you are seeking.
Christ said,… seek and ye shall find!!!
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GraceDK
Guest
Vickie, I am behind you here.Gee! I wait with bated breath!
Vickie
I also don’t get it when Christians defend Islam in order to show their tolerance of Muslims. This defence is malplaced, because the debates are necessary precisely because we want to help our muslim neighbours free from this darkness of the lie.
After a purely logical and theological article that I wrote for a Catholic news paper in my own country, some people said I was “harsh”, “intolerant”… yadayada… their counter argument was only emotional. They could do nothing against my reflected statements based on actual studies of Islam compared to Christianity and how the deity these two religions point to are altogether different persons.
Some one once wrote: the road to hell is full of false tolerance.
About what you say about Islam belonging to another century… You are right. Its important for our ever so wellmeaning brethren to understand that you are speaking of the societal implications here… Islam is a law-religion but even more it’s a totalitarian political ideology. That makes it the headache of us all… and that is why false tolerance will be the end of civilisation.
I give you this link to describe what sharia is all about and the limits it puts on people. (sharia is the political law system that all true Muslims believe is valid because it represents the way of the prophet.
The woman in the video is being physically punished for stepping outside her house for a moment with a male relative other than her husband.
timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article6030741.ece
Peace.
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dzheremi
Guest
I do think people have a point, though, when they mention the hypocrisy of arguing that Islam is wrong because it is “stuck in the 7th century” or something like that. That’s not what makes it wrong. What is wrong in Islam is eternally wrong, just as what is right in it is eternally right. Because we Christians follow a different interpretation of the law than do other communities, we are, in a sense, merely echoing the objections of generations past to the interpretations of God’s law at the hands of Muhammad, just as we presumably would be doing if it were Orthodox Jews instead of Muslims practicing stoning or filicide (“honor killings”, which are not particularly Islamic but apparently are particularly tribal).
Just last night I was watching a four part history of the Maronites on DVD. The first episode covered the early centuries of the movement, and let me tell you, if anyone were to tell me that those early believers of the 7th century ought not to be followed as examples of pious living for fear that they would lead a person to have a mindset “stuck in the 7th century”, I would say that making such comments suggests a poverty of tradition and the appreciation thereof on the part of the person making that argument. Again, what was right then is right now.
Muhammad’s mistake was not in that he was a tribal man living in ancient Arabia, but in some of the ideas he had and some of his decrees and those attributed to him. In another place, even earlier than Muhammad, a similar passion for the spiritual journey to and communion with God blessed us with St. Maroun, just as even earlier than St. Anthony, the father of all monks, enlightened the world from the Egyptian desert.
Let us not mistake a supposed “primitiveness” with wickedness. Just because Muhammad did not follow in the examples of these great men who came before him does not mean that we should disparage him for being of a certain time and place. I should hope that a Christian would recognize the value of sticking to the truth of our ancient values and the traditions by which we exercise them…after all, isn’t that why many of our ancestors rejected Muhammad and Islam in the first place?
Just last night I was watching a four part history of the Maronites on DVD. The first episode covered the early centuries of the movement, and let me tell you, if anyone were to tell me that those early believers of the 7th century ought not to be followed as examples of pious living for fear that they would lead a person to have a mindset “stuck in the 7th century”, I would say that making such comments suggests a poverty of tradition and the appreciation thereof on the part of the person making that argument. Again, what was right then is right now.
Muhammad’s mistake was not in that he was a tribal man living in ancient Arabia, but in some of the ideas he had and some of his decrees and those attributed to him. In another place, even earlier than Muhammad, a similar passion for the spiritual journey to and communion with God blessed us with St. Maroun, just as even earlier than St. Anthony, the father of all monks, enlightened the world from the Egyptian desert.
Let us not mistake a supposed “primitiveness” with wickedness. Just because Muhammad did not follow in the examples of these great men who came before him does not mean that we should disparage him for being of a certain time and place. I should hope that a Christian would recognize the value of sticking to the truth of our ancient values and the traditions by which we exercise them…after all, isn’t that why many of our ancestors rejected Muhammad and Islam in the first place?
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planten
Guest
**First thing First. It is good that you have raced back to your original mark without touching the goal (victory) line. We have no problem what you do for yourself. but just in case some other persons are distracted due to your bad resolution, it is necessary to clarify a few things.
- Muhammad had come as a prophet and messenger of God, not as a God. he had come as a prophet. So please look at the life style and teaching of the ealier prophets (Israelis) before Jesus. Do you find anything wrong? Forget Jesus please. Do not invent
a new religion. - There is no one divine except The God, as in previous scriptures. Read any previous scripture.It is absolutely forbidden to associate any one with God.
- Muslim respect Jesus and his mother and his apostles. If they do not believe inhis divinity or do not belive that he is God, that is no disrespect. Muslims do not consider any one else. Abraham or Moses or Muhammad as God too. Our stand is not against Jesus only. It is good that you were active on that line.**
,
** The entry gate into a religion should be simple. After learning a few things, it should be enough to recite a simple phrase.That would be sort of declaration of acceptance of something. Then the person becomes a Momin (believer). he comes inthe fold of Islam.
After that he has much more to do to beome a Muslim. There are five (5) pillars of Islam. 1. Belief that God is one (Allah) and Muhammad is His messenger. 2. To offer prayers five times as prescribed. 3. To pay the poor money i.e. 2.5 % of the earnings. $. To fast during the month of Ramadhan. 5. To perform Hajj if possible.
These are done to improve the faith. They are not very difficult. They are for the benefit of the believer. Thereby, the believer submits or prepares to submit himslef to the Will of Allah.
What is the Will of Allah. It is to do good to ones self and to all others and not to harm any one. It is all decribed in the last testament i.e. Quran.
More later…**
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planten
Guest
** I forgot to write the pillars of faith (belief= Eimaan):
- Belief that there is no God but Allah and Muhammad is a servant and Messenger of Allah.
- Belief in all the angels of Allah.
- Belief in all the books revealed by Allah.
- Belief in all the Messengers of Allah.
- Belief that all the good (useful, beneficial things) and bad (harmful) things are from Allah and not from any one esle.
That would make you a believer. Then you have to do a few things as mentioned in earlier post to become a Mulsim. Remember that all saints and prophets and messengers are considered Muslims. They say that they are Muslimoon.
We may just be the believers only, trying to become a Muslim. God almighty through his Grace has named us as Muslims because he wants us to be Muslims.**
.so I studied for a little over a year. Now, here is where I ran into more issues. First, I do not speak Arabic, so I had a copy of the Quran in English, which many stated was a very good translation. Now, when I would have a question or something didn’t make sense to me, or whatever I was consistantly told that it was a bad translation, but it was still not clarified, apparantely I had to learn Arabic to understand
** We do not know what translation you had and why it was a bad translation. Your last line above is wrong. Quran was revealed over a long period of 23 years and every verse as it was revealed was written down by the scribes. Scribes were many. The verses were committed to writing during the life of the prophet according to his dictation and directions.
Also the verses were memorised and recited by all Muslims during all daily prayers, loudly, so every one could hear them 5 times a day. Did you know all these things please?**
I
**Another false idea. The Quran was written during the life time of the prophet on leather and wood and bones, completely. The revealing angel Gabriel, used to reveal every word of the Quran on the heart of Muhammad. in addition to that, the same angel used to visit the prophet once every year (in the month of ramadhan) to remind and recite the whole of the revealed Quran. In the last year of his life, the angel recited the Quran twice to Muhammad during Ramadhan. That was the complete Quran recited and reminded twice.
So there was no doubt about anything. The angel had recited the Quran in the proper order in which it was to be compiled. The placement of the verses was told to the prophet.**
(quote] Really, underneath it all I could not and would abandoned Jesus, to deny His divinity is not something I am prepared to do, and have recently thrown myself fully back into my Catholicism, and I am currently reading the complete Catechism of the Catholic Church to perhaps clear up some of my initial conerns that led me away to begin with.
Peace in Christ
** Please if you have any question that you may have had during your quest for the truth, you may please present it here on the forum. We will try to reslove it for you. There is sis Amy and Muslim Woman and myself to help you. Do you need any help? Welcome**.
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Benjamin8o8
Guest
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dzheremi
Guest
I doubt that is one of the points on which Muslim Woman or Sister Amy would disagree with him, though, Benjamin…
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Benjamin8o8
Guest
Yeah I know man. I mean Muslims on this page don
t agree with him, he himself dosent even reply to Christian argument yet hes offering someone help to find the Truth. I really dont understand what his purpose is on Catholic Forums. He is just stirring confusing. Unless he attempts to encounter arguments from Christians with logic and reliable evidence I don`t mind, but I am very unpleased with him being on here. He is doing the same thing what the other Achmed (sp?) was doing. Not that I hate planten or anything, but his useless posts are starting to get annoying. 
Please stop Planten or I might have to start reporting you…
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tomarin
Guest
I’m not defending Islam, I’m defending reasonableness and some sense of proportion. See the second paragraph of my post #234.
It’s not a tenet of Christianity that other religions are all wrong or all bad. In fact, I believe it’s a teaching of our Church that this is not the case (see Nostra Aetate). So I’m actually more of an orthodox Catholic than you are on this point.
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tomarin
Guest
That’s not what muslims believe. That’s not what any religion believes, with the possible exception of Satanism.
That would be a question for a muslim. I think that the Sermon on the Mount is perhaps the greatest sermon ever given; but as for what a muslim makes of it you would have to ask him or her.
That’s a question for them.
I mean that by negatively stereotyping Islam the way you do you make it harder for those muslims who might have a problem with conservative or fundamentalist Islam to make their case. You are basically agreeing with the conservative muslims who believe that the practices we disagree with are intrinsic to Islam (and in so doing you also affirm that Islam has an essential nature which should be problematic for a believer of a rival religion, but that’s a whole other topic).
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Booklover
Guest
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planten
Guest
**Ben, I only defended my religion (Islam) against some false allegations. Am I not allowed to do that here? This is a non-Catholic section. You seem to be Protesting??? Are you a Catholic?? I believe not. **.Yeah I know man. I mean Muslims on this page dont agree with him, he himself dosent even reply to Christian argument yet hes offering someone help to find the Truth. I really dont understand what his purpose is on Catholic Forums. He is just stirring confusing. Unless he attempts to encounter arguments from Christians with logic and reliable evidence I don`t mind, but I am very unpleased with him being on here. He is doing the same thing what the other Achmed (sp?) was doing. Not that I hate planten or anything, but his useless posts are starting to get annoying.
Please stop Planten or I might have to start reporting you…
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tomarin
Guest
I’ve never read anything about Mohammad (from an objective source) to make me think he was evil. Ruthless perhaps, but not evil. More to the point, not all the teachings of Islam are evil. Many are just neutral (such as the business about letting your beard grow, or not drinking alcohol), and some are good (such as the belief that God is one).
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Benjamin8o8
Guest
No, you
re not defending your religion Islam. True members of Islam dont even support your belief. And you are not defending it against false allegations, you only call it “false allegations” because you certainly don`t believe them. You told us we need to stop inventing a new religion
STOP ANNOYING US! I
m trying to be patient with you, and Im pretty sure that we covered it thousands of times that Jesus Christ (The Son of God) is the one that established Christianity. We have historical facts to prove this allegation, but you never face these facts. You ignore them in one thread and say in another that we invent a new religion or follow a man that didn`t know Jesus. Yet you provide no evidence whatsoever.You`re walking on thin ice here planten, stop stirring confusion or else you can consider yourself reported!
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Booklover
Guest
In other words, I should be silenced because you don’t agree with my perception of Islam. Very telling.
Vickie
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Booklover
Guest
Well, it that’s the way you think about it, there’s nothing I can say. You should do more research though into Muhammad and Islam, before you condemn what others post.
Vickie
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