Islam Converts

[tomarin]

In other words, I should be silenced because you don’t agree with my perception of Islam. Very telling.

Not at all. But you should think through all the ramifications of the positions you take. I don’t think that’s too much to expect of anyone.

 

[tomarin]

Well, it that’s the way you think about it, there’s nothing I can say. You should do more research though into Muhammad and Islam, before you condemn what others post.

Vickie

I took a college-level class on the history of Islam; and have continued reading up on the subject. My advice to you is to avoid very narrowly biased websites if you want to get an objective view of things.

When I disagree with someone I try to engage them in rational argument about why I disagree with them. That’s not the same as condemning them, as far as I’m concerned. It’s true I objected to your telling another poster “we’re not interested in your opinions” because I felt you had no authority to say that on my behalf. You’re not a moderator after all. But if I ever ceased to be civil, I apologize.

 

[Booklover]

I took a college-level class on the history of Islam; and have continued reading up on the subject. My advice to you is to avoid very narrowly biased websites if you want to get an objective view of things.

When I disagree with someone I try to engage them in rational argument about why I disagree with them. That’s not the same as condemning them, as far as I’m concerned. It’s true I objected to your telling another poster “we’re not interested in your opinions” because I felt you had no authority to say that on my behalf. You’re not a moderator after all. But if I ever ceased to be civil, I apologize.

And if I offended you, I apologize as well. As for the rest, we’ll just have to agree to disagree.

Vickie

 

[almosthome1]

**First thing First. It is good that you have raced back to your original mark without touching the goal (victory) line. We have no problem what you do for yourself. but just in case some other persons are distracted due to your bad resolution, it is necessary to clarify a few things.

1. Muhammad had come as a prophet and messenger of God, not as a God. he had come as a prophet. So please look at the life style and teaching of the ealier prophets (Israelis) before Jesus. Do you find anything wrong? Forget Jesus please. Do not invent
   a new religion.
2. There is no one divine except The God, as in previous scriptures. Read any previous scripture.It is absolutely forbidden to associate any one with God.
3. Muslim respect Jesus and his mother and his apostles. If they do not believe inhis divinity or do not belive that he is God, that is no disrespect. Muslims do not consider any one else. Abraham or Moses or Muhammad as God too. Our stand is not against Jesus only. It is good that you were active on that line.**

,

** The entry gate into a religion should be simple. After learning a few things, it should be enough to recite a simple phrase.That would be sort of declaration of acceptance of something. Then the person becomes a Momin (believer). he comes inthe fold of Islam.

After that he has much more to do to beome a Muslim. There are five (5) pillars of Islam. 1. Belief that God is one (Allah) and Muhammad is His messenger. 2. To offer prayers five times as prescribed. 3. To pay the poor money i.e. 2.5 % of the earnings. $. To fast during the month of Ramadhan. 5. To perform Hajj if possible.

These are done to improve the faith. They are not very difficult. They are for the benefit of the believer. Thereby, the believer submits or prepares to submit himslef to the Will of Allah.

What is the Will of Allah. It is to do good to ones self and to all others and not to harm any one. It is all decribed in the last testament i.e. Quran.

More later…**

Yes, once one converts they are expected as a Muslim to follow the pillars, but to convert the only thing I have to do is walk into a Mosque (according to some I don’t even have to go to the Mosque) recite the phrase of believing that Muhammad is the last and greatest prophet of God, and bam I’m a Muslim. I’m sorry but it is my personal opinion that converting to Islam is the victory line, that is not what is in my heart, and to do so would be a lie to everyone. How can a Christian forget Jesus? Jesus was the foundation of Christianity, according to Christians He fulfilled the prophecy was the Messiah, and despite what Muslims like to tell me, He did claim divinity on more than occassion. Which then goes into the whole Trinity. We do not consider other prophets to be God, so I’m not certain where you were going with that, but Jesus is 1/3 of the Trinity. There are quite a few things between the Bible and Quran that God seems to have changed His mind about. If according to the Quran, God has always sent the same message what is with the differences? One example of this being divorce, Christians, or perhaps just Catholics (can’t speak for all Christians) do not believe in divorce at all, yet the Quran approves. The Bible clearly states that anyone that denies the divinity of Jesus Christ is an antichrist, the Quran is very clear that it believes Jesus was simply a man. There were far to many inconsistancies in the “same message” for it to be say the third part of trilogy.

Peace in Christ

 

[emarc]

Originally Posted by planten forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
1. Muhammad had come as a prophet and messenger of God, not as a God. he had come as a prophet. So please look at the life style and teaching of the ealier prophets (Israelis) before Jesus. Do you find anything wrong? Forget Jesus please. Do not invent
a new religion.

planten - the OT has more than 300 prophesies by different prophets over centuries about our Lord and savior Jesus Christ and all hit the marks. the prophets foretold of his birth to a virgin, that he would be a suffering servant, a savior of the world and many more and ALL came true. we are talking of a span of at least 1,000 years prophesies validated and confirmed in the NT. did you say mohammed wrote or dictated the quoran over a period of 23 years? inspired by St. Gabriel?? was there any prophesy written about him anywhere? was there any corroboration or affirmation by other prophets? how would one know it’s not coming from the devil? how would one differentiate mohammed’s revelation from joseph smith’s?
*God bless. *

 

[planten]

Yes, once one converts they are expected as a Muslim to follow the pillars, but to convert the only thing I have to do is walk into a Mosque (according to some I don’t even have to go to the Mosque) recite the phrase of believing that Muhammad is the last and greatest prophet of God, and bam I’m a Muslim.

bam, you are a Momin (believer) only.

I’m sorry but it is my personal opinion that converting to Islam is the victory line, that is not what is in my heart, and to do so would be a lie to everyone. How can a Christian forget Jesus? Jesus was the foundation of Christianity, according to Christians He fulfilled the prophecy was the Messiah,

** We Muslims also believe that Jesus was the Messiah, that is the promised Messaih of the Jews. He came at the right time and did the right things. But the Jews were upset and sought to kill him. He was the True Messiah.

Please know that a christian or a Muslim has not to forget Jesus. We Muslims have Jesus with us and Moses too. No one can be a Momin if he does not believe in Moses or Jesus.**

and despite what Muslims like to tell me, He did claim divinity on more than occassion. Which then goes into the whole Trinity. We do not consider other prophets to be God, so I’m not certain where you were going with that, but Jesus is 1/3 of the Trinity. There are quite a few things between the Bible and Quran that God seems to have changed His mind about.

Please correct it. God must have changed His mind when giving bibleNT because it differs a lot with the beliefs of the Jews in bibleOT (Torah). First you have to consider the differences there. then come to any minor difference in the Quran.

If according to the Quran, God has always sent the same message what is with the differences? One example of this being divorce, Christians, or perhaps just Catholics (can’t speak for all Christians) do not believe in divorce at all, yet the Quran approves. The Bible clearly states that anyone that denies the divinity of Jesus Christ is an antichrist, the Quran is very clear that it believes Jesus was simply a man. There were far to many inconsistancies in the “same message” for it to be say the third part of trilogy.

Peace in Christ

**Yes, you are right there. Please know that Torah did not stop divorce. BibleNT also does not disallow it completely. It says “Any one who divorces his wife except for …” Please note the words “except for” in that verse. It means there is a condition for which divorce can be used.

Okay, you are doing well. Just save your self from idle things and enter your home. You are “Almost home”. Have a good rest at home. If your mind is at rest then it is good. Otherwise the home cannot help you find peace of mind. It is the conscience which never supports Lies.

It is best not to make other Lords beside Allah (The God). If any one has made a Lord (Jesus) beside Allah then he/she should stop there and not make other Lords beside Jesus. At least they should stop at Jesus. No more Lords beside Jesus, please.

**

 

[Sister_Amy]

That would be a question for a muslim. I think that the Sermon on the Mount is perhaps the greatest sermon ever given; but as for what a muslim makes of it you would have to ask him or her.

The Sermon on the Mount is probably my favorite passage from the Bible. I find it to be the most “Islamic” of almost anything one can read in the Bible, without a doubt. For almost everything in the sermon (save references to a parent-child metaphor for God and humans), there is an equivalent in the teachings of Islam. The moral teachings are nearly identical.

I mean that by negatively stereotyping Islam the way you do you make it harder for those muslims who might have a problem with conservative or fundamentalist Islam to make their case. You are basically agreeing with the conservative muslims who believe that the practices we disagree with are intrinsic to Islam (and in so doing you also affirm that Islam has an essential nature which should be problematic for a believer of a rival religion, but that’s a whole other topic).

I agree with you 100%.

 

[MrDickerson]

** Hypatia, you have described it very well. We see that the christians have lost all interest in social matters. They have given an open licence for its followers to do what they like. That is also because of liberal laws of the secular world.

There does not sem to be any future for the christianity in the world. Most of The christians do not follow their religion. They are name sake christians enjoying themselves in pubs and casinos, in film theatres etc. The real practicing christians are very few.

The Muslims have also lost the way in many matters of faith and good behaviour. But that is not the fault of Islam or Quran.**

HA! You should see how Muslims behave when they’re NOT in their strict Islamic societies! I know many Muslims here in the United States from various countries, especially Saudi Arabia, and they can behave like absolute pigs. Some of them can be very kind and hospitable, but they definitely have their faults that are directly related to them being Muslims. A few things I’ve noticed almost all Muslims I know have in common is that:
(1) They lie about all sorts of things, even about the most trivial matters;
(2) They are always looking for some way to “cheat the system”;
(3) They think about sex constantly; they don’t even understand the concept of being around a female (as in having a chaste, holy friendship) unless they think they can gain some sexual advantage.
(4) They don’t “feel guilty” about things they do even when Islam forbids it. Like drinking alcohol/getting intoxicated (which they also do a lot). MOST believing Christians will feel remorse or shame if they commit something they know to be a grave sin; but not these Muslim guys! I think it’s because here we have a “guilt-based” culture whereas Islamic societies have an “honor-based” culture. In other words, in the West, we tend to think in terms of right and wrong, i.e. I do something wrong and I know it’s wrong because my conscience tells me and I feel guilty about it. Muslims don’t think in terms of right and wrong but whether a particular action will bring honor or dishonor upon my family/kindred/society/etc. So if I do something bad (this is how Muslims think) in secret, it’s OK because no one else knows and it won’t bring anyone dishonor.

I also think it’s very telling that these same Muslims will get drunk and smoke illegal substances (cough) without batting an eye, but eating PORK is treated as if it’s THE cardinal sin in Islam. Thank God in the true faith (Christianity, specifically Catholicism) we know that, as Our Savior taught, EVIL comes from the HEART of man and not from what passes into our mouths, through our stomachs, and into the toilet.

 

[Sister_Amy]

HA! You should see how Muslims behave when they’re NOT in their strict Islamic societies! I know many Muslims here in the United States from various countries, especially Saudi Arabia, and they can behave like absolute pigs. Some of them can be very kind and hospitable, but they definitely have their faults that are directly related to them being Muslims. A few things I’ve noticed almost all Muslims I know have in common is that:
(1) They lie about all sorts of things, even about the most trivial matters;
(2) They are always looking for some way to “cheat the system”;
(3) They think about sex constantly; they don’t even understand the concept of being around a female (as in having a chaste, holy friendship) unless they think they can gain some sexual advantage.
(4) They don’t “feel guilty” about things they do even when Islam forbids it. Like drinking alcohol/getting intoxicated (which they also do a lot). MOST believing Christians will feel remorse or shame if they commit something they know to be a grave sin; but not these Muslim guys! I think it’s because here we have a “guilt-based” culture whereas Islamic societies have an “honor-based” culture. In other words, in the West, we tend to think in terms of right and wrong, i.e. I do something wrong and I know it’s wrong because my conscience tells me and I feel guilty about it. Muslims don’t think in terms of right and wrong but whether a particular action will bring honor or dishonor upon my family/kindred/society/etc. So if I do something bad (this is how Muslims think) in secret, it’s OK because no one else knows and it won’t bring anyone dishonor.

I also think it’s very telling that these same Muslims will get drunk and smoke illegal substances (cough) without batting an eye, but eating PORK is treated as if it’s THE cardinal sin in Islam. Thank God in the true faith (Christianity, specifically Catholicism) we know that, as Our Savior taught, EVIL comes from the HEART of man and not from what passes into our mouths, through our stomachs, and into the toilet.

This last paragraph is kind of funny, actually. It’s true, you see–I’ve known “Muslims” in my life who would think of pork as the worst sin ever but not have a problem committing adultery or getting drunk. It’s sick, actually. And you should be able to tell from the get-go that they don’t care about their religion, but are more interested in flaunting the rules and getting whatever they can from this life. And that is the exact opposite of Islam.

And if you start to look at Christians in this society, you’ll see much of the same behaviors. A person might engage in “pre-marital sex” but convince himself he’s a good person because he doesn’t steal. Another person might steal things but convince himself that it’s alright because he respects and honors his mother. It has nothing to do with a person’s religion, exactly, but their lack of adherence to such a religion, whatever it happens to be.

 

[MrDickerson]

This last paragraph is kind of funny, actually. It’s true, you see–I’ve known “Muslims” in my life who would think of pork as the worst sin ever but not have a problem committing adultery or getting drunk. It’s sick, actually. And you should be able to tell from the get-go that they don’t care about their religion, but are more interested in flaunting the rules and getting whatever they can from this life. And that is the exact opposite of Islam.

And if you start to look at Christians in this society, you’ll see much of the same behaviors. A person might engage in “pre-marital sex” but convince himself he’s a good person because he doesn’t steal. Another person might steal things but convince himself that it’s alright because he respects and honors his mother. It has nothing to do with a person’s religion, exactly, but their lack of adherence to such a religion, whatever it happens to be.

I actually agree with you on this one, Sister Amy. But you should tell that to “Planten”; this post was written in response to his hare-brained belief that immorality in the liberal, secular West is the fault of Christianity but immorality in the Islamic world is somehow not the fault of Islam.

 

[planten]

I actually agree with you on this one, Sister Amy. But you should tell that to “Planten”; this post was written in response to his hare-brained belief that immorality in the liberal, secular West is the fault of Christianity but immorality in the Islamic world is somehow not the fault of Islam.

**MrDickerson, I read your above post and the one before that. I fully agree with you. I am a witness of the same things. I witnessed the Arabs (All Arabs and a few Muslims of othe rcountries) drinking heavily in Paris and the worst kind of sex activity. Whatever you have written is true. I agree with you. So what ever the christians are doing is non-Catholic behaviour and whatever the Msulims are doing is also wrong (non-Islamic). It is not the fault of christianity or Islam.

I fully agree with sis Amy too. Thanks to both of you.

The problem is that the laws in the christian dominated countries allow all type of mis-behaviour. The laws are lax. Same is not in the Msulim countries. SO shall we blame the societies (countries) instead of the inhabitants??**

 

[tomarin]

Vickie, I am behind you here.
I also don’t get it when Christians defend Islam in order to show their tolerance of Muslims. This defence is malplaced, because the debates are necessary precisely because we want to help our muslim neighbours free from this darkness of the lie.

See my post # 234, especially the second paragraph, for an explanation of why I often oppose the “clash of civilizations” people in these kind of debates. Also, keep in mind that tolerance of other religions has emerged as a global norm in the modern world, one which every serious religious person has to deal with in some way.

About what you say about Islam belonging to another century… You are right. Its important for our ever so wellmeaning brethren to understand that you are speaking of the societal implications here… Islam is a law-religion but even more it’s a totalitarian political ideology. That makes it the headache of us all… and that is why false tolerance will be the end of civilisation.

That’s true. Islam is a religion that was born in the pre-modern world. So are Christianity and Judaism. That’s why a lot of people are drawn to them, I think. If you want a modern religion, try the Protestant version of Christianity, Mormonism, or Scientology.

 

[Agabriel]

This is why it should be required for Muslims to study the Word of Jesus. Then they would realize how Muhammad exactly disputed and even broke the commandments and teachings of Jesus, how he brought opposition. The Comforter was the gift of Jesus in Spirit upon his leaving of the flesh, he had to be resurrected to be able to come to each believer in the Holy Spirit and give one on one, individual to individual, the Holy Word for their own guidance. That ensured that nobody who came after could present ‘another gospel’ or change or rewrite or undo what God had done in Jesus.

Muslims don’t get this. They don’t get it because they only have what Muhammad taught them about Jesus, take it for face value, and reject what truth is in Jesus.

Muhammad had to teach the same gospel without changes, or, according to Jesus, he would be defined as a false prophet. It is that simple, but for Muslims, they blindly follow and accept what Muhammad falsely taught, rejecting the gospel. In that they can not receive the Holy Spirit to guide them, since they reject this and replace it with a human being who was acting for his own power and glory and personal desires on earth, going against all that Jesus said and did.

Yeah, I agree with you.

The Muslims want to tell us what Christianity, and quite often what Judaism, is only in reference to what their QUran says. Well, they are off the mark when they do this!

But, their own Quran says that they should read the Bible because it is the ‘Truth from the Lord’ Surah 10:94. Which then makes most of the Quran invalid because if the Bible is the truth then the parts of the Quran that has a different message from the Bible is therefore invalid! The Bible also tells them how to identify a prophet and Muhammed met none of the requirements of a Prophet. And if they read the Bible they would know there will be no Prophets since Jesus fulfilled the prophecies.

So, to me Islam makes no sense except in an imperialistic idiology for a man who fooled a lot of people. And if Muslims read their own Quran with an open mind they would see that Muhammed, quite often, says that deception is ok. And it seems that they might be the ones who are duped.

 

[Jamison97]

I picked up a Koran and read it and I’m still devout in my Catholic beliefs, but I don’t believe any religion is better than another.

 

[Agabriel]

I picked up a Koran and read it and I’m still devout in my Catholic beliefs, but I don’t believe any religion is better than another.

You must have missed all the parts where they dehumanize the unbelievers and then call for their death, or subjugation (only if they are ‘of the book’).

I didn’t get the same conclusion after reading the Quran. Not only it is rather a messy book, meaning it is all over the place and focuses a lot on Muhammad, but repetitive and not accurate about the Biblical accounts at all. And since Islam is as much political (Jihad) as it is invasive on the private personal things such as how they wash and what they do to go to the bathroom, I found it obsessive-compulsive. Then one has to study Jihad in Islam to know that it is indeed very violent while the Jihadists are indeed supported by the masses in not only money, but morale.

And Islam is confusing. Many references to predestination are mentioned, but then it says to do good works, or do a Hajj and do things around a black rock, but it doesn’t really make itself clear if all of that bypasses predestination. The only thing that I see that bypasses predestination is dying while killing unbelievers. So much for all the ‘peacefulness’.

I don’t know - Islam isn’t what it is cracked up to be. I see majority Muslim countries and they are ruled by sharia laws that are based not only on the Quran but the hadiths and they are human rights disasters.

So, my conclusion is that Islam is a religion based on a 7th Century warlord who was more concerned about getting wealth (loot and slaves) and it is still going on to this day, including the slave trade.

 

[Sam_777]

First, I do not speak Arabic, so I had a copy of the Quran in English, which many stated was a very good translation. Now, when I would have a question or something didn’t make sense to me, or whatever I was consistantly told that it was a bad translation, but it was still not clarified, apparantely I had to learn Arabic to understand .

Then was the issue of these wonderful stories people would tell me were simply not true,

I was also put off by the compilation of the Quran, it wasn’t organized by Muhammed or even during his lifetime, it simply organized by length of sura, yet some the information or permissions that were granted to Muhammed were (according to various scholars) situation specific apparently,

Really, underneath it all I could not and would abandoned Jesus, to deny His divinity is not something I am prepared to do, and have recently thrown myself fully back into my Catholicism,

 

[Sam_777]

First, I do not speak Arabic, so I had a copy of the Quran in English, which many stated was a very good translation. Now, when I would have a question or something didn’t make sense to me, or whatever I was consistantly told that it was a bad translation, but it was still not clarified, apparantely I had to learn Arabic to understand .

:sad_yes:, even you need that Arabic skills to understand Hadith because through Hadith you learn about Muhammed deeds and fully understand Islam.

Then was the issue of these wonderful stories people would tell me were simply not true,

:dts:, I hope everyone reads your statement.

Really, underneath it all I could not and would abandoned Jesus, to deny His divinity is not something I am prepared to do, and have recently thrown myself fully back into my Catholicism,

Could you please share with us what Muslims had told you about Islam to covert you.

 

[GraceDK]

I picked up a Koran and read it and I’m still devout in my Catholic beliefs, but I don’t believe any religion is better than another.

But hopefully you believe Jesus Christ is better than other persons… why else on earth would you follow Him???

 

[Agabriel]

Jesus would not have allowed a people to think that if this was the true God, Himself, to be a deceiver, one who tricks people, wants them tortured and to be killed, brings them on this earth to keep them from knowing the truth and to allow them to go to hell. And if you read the Quran you will find that is exactly what Allah is all about.

 

[planten]

Jesus would not have allowed a people to think that if this was the true God, Himself, to be a deceiver, one who tricks people, wants them tortured and to be killed, brings them on this earth to keep them from knowing the truth and to allow them to go to hell. And if you read the Quran you will find that is exactly what Allah is all about.

**Agabriel, You feel that Allah is harsh, tortures mankind. You believe that Jesus is God. You know that Jews were very harsh on the non-Jewish people when they were attacking the peaceful people. That was a command to the Jews from God to kill the children and the women and the very old men (all). And not to spare any one.

I feel that was a very harsh order from your God, i.e. from Jesus. How could Jesus be so harsh? Or Jesus was not the god 1400 years before his birth. Which of your gods ordered that killing of innocent people?? Was it your Father God or the son God??

I hope you will open the bibleOT and read all about the indiscriminate killing prescibed therein by your Gods.**