Islam !? Ha!

[dolphinlove]

Salaam/peace;

sure it is . Islam is a practical religion . Divorced is not encouraged in Islam but allowed when necessary.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/peace;

yes, it was practical for Muhammads purposes.

Islam did not introduce polygamy . it was there always . Divorced was also allowed in the past .

So , why blame Muhammed (p) ?

divorce was made a whole lot easier in Islam.

Prophet Muhammed (p) said , among all lawful matters , Allah dislikes divorce most .

So , divorced is allowed but not encouraged .

What major sin would a woman do if she wasnt to remarry?

having secret unethical relationships with other men.

This comment is blasphemous. I would be praying to God for forgiveness for this statement if i was you.

lol…we respect Mother Mary (p) & we believe she was a Muslim woman . We know she never wore any provocative dress & mantioned proper hijab/ veil .

Read my post again & u will understand my comment was not to degrade her … I am not allowed to do so regarding Islamic teaching . I was asking that question to the poster who made a neg comment about Muslim women’s dress.

 

[cathopologist]

Salaam/peace;
sure it is . Islam is a practical religion . Divorced is not encouraged in Islam but allowed when necessary.

Its practical for men and women who do not mind sharing partners.

After divorce , women are allowed to remarry otherwise she may commit a major sin.

You forgot to mention the abuses Muslim men hurl at a divorced woman. Yes, that is her sin.

what solution Catholic Chruch has for divorced women ? To control their desire , they will fast always or embrace other religion to get married ?

No doubt, there are fallen away Catholics, who either could not get an annulment (some Catholic women think an annulment will refuse the status of their children as legitimate - which is false) or could not be bothered to go through the tribunal process. It’s no surprise they end up becoming Muslim or join some other denomination that allows divorce.

Many devout Catholics pray the rosary to avoid temptation or read their Bible for inspiration. There are also many Catholic programs which look into the matter of spousal abuses (some priests are certified Psychologists). We also have saints to help pray for us. Saints are integral in Catholicism because they are extremely good examples of holy men and women who have also succeeded in defeating worldly temptations.

I mentioned earlier that Zainab was cousin of Prophet Muhammed (p) . Marriage between cousins is allowed in Islam .

Would you marry your cousin? Seriously. Would you feel comfortable sleeping with your cousin whom you grew up with or played together as little children? I don’t know about you, but if i were a Muslim, i’d feel strange. It’s as good as having committed incest.

So , why Prophet needed to arrange his cousin’s marriage with the Zaid & marry her after her divorce if he was in love with her ?

Who said Mohammad “loved” her? It’s about lust. Lust is not love.

Adopted son & own sons …these are different in Islam . Marrying own son’s wife is not allowed . Prophet’s sons were dead ; so no question of marrying his own son’s wife.

Is an adopted son considered a slave in Islam? Would you allow your husband to marry your son’s wife?

Mother Mary (p) used to wear mini skirt ?

If i said something similar about Aisha’s dressing in Saudi Arabia (or any other predominatly Muslim country), i’m sure they’ll use Gillette blades to skin me alive.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

… But we see disrespect to Mary in bible. Jesus when he was on the cross addressed his mother as “O woman,” That is considered bad…

If Jesus was speaking in jive, you’d have a point.

But I think you’ll find that Jesus is painting a picture for us… He likening Mary as the personification of the New Eve because He is the New Adam. Eve was the woman for Adam.

 

[planten]

Why should we? Im getting sick of you dictating to us to what we should and shouldnt talk about.
Why is this, because you know Islam is a sham and hate it been pointed out so constantly?
There is no recording of how old Mary was when she gave birth to our Lord and saviour. And not only that, Mary was pregnant according to God’s wishes, so when you start going on about Mary’s age, your making accusations to a decision God made, so be careful with this one.
As for Aisha, there is proof and recording of the age she was betrothed and married. We are free to bring this up and talk about it when we want too. As long as its a fact and its documented, we can talk about it.
Planten, if you continue to keep putting up allegations against Christianity, be prepared for our defense, we dont take things lying down and we dont let things go unchallenged.
God Bless

I would avoid your harsh post. Those evidence is no good. There is nothing about that in the Quran. It is just like the bible in man made books. That is no evidence.

Otherwise we will have to believe that Jesus was married to Mary Magd. A tomb has recently been discovered of the family of Jesus wherein is the casket of the son of Jesus. You would like to believe somethings and ignore the others. We Muslims have no problem about Jesus or his mother or his friends. It is all because of your bad thinking and raising bad questions. Then face all the questions.

 

[dzheremi]

That is ridiculousness. This coming from someone who has told us in the past to look in “The Da Vinci Code” for evidence that Jesus had a relationship with Mary Magdalene! The story of Jesus’ “son” is a similar falsehood. I seem to recall something similar being broadcasted on the History Channel, but they had only baseless speculation as well.

For your own sake, please stop grasping at straws, Planten. This thread is not about Jesus to begin with.

 

[inJESUS]

there is no point comparing marriage in Christianity and Islam…in Christianity it is a sacrament, in Islam it is more of a contract…you can divorce by a single word. So of course Muslims will see our sacrament as not “practical” because what is “practical” is to bow down to human sinfulness and greed.

Regarding Muhammad’s marriage to Zeinab, the ex-wife of his spiritual son, we all know he did not have to sleep with the woman to teach whatever he wanted…teaching is not an excuse for sleeping with a woman who was supposed, to normal people, to be like his daughter…the man did not have sex with 9 women on a single day for “spiritual” elevation.

 

[dolphinlove]

I would avoid your harsh post. Those evidence is no good. There is nothing about that in the Quran. It is just like the bible in man made books. That is no evidence.

Planten, unlike you, most muslims believe in the hadiths, which documents how muslims are meant to live.There is plenty of evidence there. At times, when you choose that is, you also like to use them as evidence as well.

Otherwise we will have to believe that Jesus was married to Mary Magd. A tomb has recently been discovered of the family of Jesus wherein is the casket of the son of Jesus. You would like to believe somethings and ignore the others. We Muslims have no problem about Jesus or his mother or his friends. It is all because of your bad thinking and raising bad questions.

Do you know how common all those names were in those days? That tomb could have belonged to anyone.There is no evidence it was the tomb of Jesus, Mary and Joseph.
My thinking is not bad, my thinking is clear and logical. Your problem is you dont agree with my ideas therefore you deem them bad. Dont worry, i dont agree with your thinking pattern either.

Then face all the questions.

This is good coming from you, you have evaded MANY questions in the past. Its a good thing you dont live in a glass house Planten!!!

 

[dolphinlove]

Salaam/peace;

Islam did not introduce polygamy . it was there always . Divorced was also allowed in the past .

So , why blame Muhammed (p) ?

Because it was always wrong. When Jesus came, he taught us to be monogamous and faithful to each other as man and women in marriage, not have several partners. As you know, with Jesus teaching this to us, this is the way God truly wanted us to live.
Now why do i blame Muhammad, because he has taught over a billion people to think its is ok to live in a polygamous way when Jesus taught the exact opposite. After Jesus came, taught us the truth, died for our sins and suffered for us, then to have Muhammad come along and undo the teachings of Jesus, i think he has a fair amount of explaining to do for undoing Gods work. Thats why i blame muhammed.

Prophet Muhammed said , among all lawful matters , Allah dislikes divorce most .
So , divorced is allowed but not encouraged .

And yet you can divorce just by uttering one simple word. Why make it so simple if Al,lah dislikes it so much?

having secret unethical relationships with other men.

Come now, God gives us the strength we need to fight our temptations when we pray and ask for it. Besides, if a women is covered up, isnt this meant to eliminate the chances of a man fancying her for a ‘moment of glory’. How can a women be lead to temptation if she is covered up?

lol…we respect Mother Mary (p) & we believe she was a Muslim woman . We know she never wore any provocative dress & mantioned proper hijab/ veil .

Mary was Jewish, as was Jesus. You may lol to the fact at what i said in the previous post, but if you understand the way we love and respect Mary, you wouldnt have said such a thing.

Read my post again & u will understand my comment was not to degrade her … I am not allowed to do so regarding Islamic teaching . I was asking that question to the poster who made a neg comment about Muslim women’s dress.

I read your post, but the fact remains you said it, you disrespected Mary.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/peace;

Because it was always wrong.

how do u know it was alwasy wrong ? God decided it in His holy book or it’s ur comment ?

And yet you can divorce just by uttering one simple word. Why make it so simple if Allah dislikes it so much?

it’s not that simple. Don’t judge Islam after watching actions of some bad Muslims

Muslim men must follow various steps if he wants to divorce his wife.

And when you divorce women and they reach their prescribed time, then either retain them in good fellowship or set them free with liberality, and do not retain them for injury,

so that you exceed the limits, and whoever does this, he indeed is unjust to his own soul; and do not take Allah’s communications for a mockery, and remember the favor of Allah upon you,

and that which He has revealed to you of the Book and the Wisdom, admonishing you thereby;

and be careful (of your duty to) Allah, and know that Allah is the Knower of all things

chaper 2 , verse 231

BTW , do u know which holy book tells men to love wife & keep the relationship with her even if she has some faults ?

.

the fact remains you said it, you disrespected Mary.

nuh . She is the respected mother of our beloved Prophet Jesus ( may peace & blessings of Allah be upon him ) . I won’t remain as a Muslim if I don’t respect both the mom & son.

 

[Angelos]

Salaam/peace;

sure it is . Islam is a practical religion . Divorced is not encouraged in Islam but allowed when necessary.

After divorce , women are allowed to remarry otherwise she may commit a major sin.

Your dear messenger went against this so-called practical obligation and forced his many wives to commit major sins by forbidding them marriage after his death:

Surah 33:53
it is not for you to cause annoyance to the messenger of Allah, nor that ye should ever marry his wives after him. Lo! that in Allah’s sight would be an enormity.

I hope those women’s major sins will be forgiven

what solution Catholic Chruch has for divorced women ? To control their desire , they will fast always or embrace other religion to get married ?

Now I really wonder what kind of solution Mohammad’s wives had after Mohammad’s death.

I mentioned earlier that Zainab was cousin of Prophet Muhammed (p) .

Marriage between cousins is allowed in Islam . So , why Prophet needed to arrange his cousin’s marriage with Zaid & married her after her divorce if he was in love with her ?

Adopted son & own sons …these are different in Islam . Marrying own son’s wife is not allowed . Prophet’s sons were dead ; so no question of marrying his own son’s wife.

Why are foster-mothers and sisters not considered different from own mothers in Islam though? Your scripture forbids Muslim men from marrying their foster-mothers and sisters. This does not sound consistent.

Mother Mary (p) used to wear mini skirt ?

Why are you obsessed with Virgin Mary? Why do you feel yourself obliged to compare Mary to Aisha? I do not think that Aisha is the only mother of Muslims. LOL

Some people say that Aisha wore a bikini when she lost her necklace in the desert. What do you think about this claim?

 

[cathopologist]

And when you divorce women and they reach their prescribed time, then either retain them in good fellowship or set them free with liberality, and do not retain them for injury,

so that you exceed the limits, and whoever does this, he indeed is unjust to his own soul; and do not take Allah’s communications for a mockery, and remember the favor of Allah upon you,

and that which He has revealed to you of the Book and the Wisdom, admonishing you thereby;

and be careful (of your duty to) Allah, and know that Allah is the Knower of all things

So whenever a Muslim man beats his wife for a divorce, are we safe to assume that over 60% of Muslim men are bad?

BTW , do u know which holy book tells men to love wife & keep the relationship with her even if she has some faults ?

The Bible already beat the Qu’ran in that sense. In fact, Jewish women had more freedom than the average Muslim woman 1000 years later. But if you wish to insist that the Qu’ran or rather, Islam teaches “tolerance” towards their women…hey, its your choice. Did you know that Malaysia (with a huge Muslim population) recently wanted to pass a law to allow Muslim men to divorce their wives via text-messaging? Its a joke, isn’t it? Thankfully it didn’t pass through. Guess who were the masterminds behind that? The tech-savvy Muslim men of course! Even the Muslimah’s Christian friends felt worried for them.

nuh . She is the respected mother of our beloved Prophet Jesus ( may peace & blessings of Allah be upon him ) . I won’t remain as a Muslim if I don’t respect both the mom & son.

Yeah, whose-ever names are written in the Qu’ran in high-esteem cannot be mocked. Otherwise face the consequences of Islamic wrath. It seems more often that Islamists are acting on behalf of God, rather than let God punish their enemies on Judgement Day.

 

[Angelos]

Salaam/peace;

Islam did not introduce polygamy . it was there always . Divorced was also allowed in the past .

So , why blame Muhammed (p) ?

We have the right to blame Mohammad because he claimed to be the final messenger sent with the perfect message although what Jesus taught about marriage and divorce in the NT is far superior to the law of the Koran.

More, there is not a single verse in the Koran that praises monogamy over polygamy.

Prophet Muhammed (p) said , among all lawful matters , Allah dislikes divorce most .

So , divorced is allowed but not encouraged .

Not in the Koran. You are deliberately confusing what Mohammad supposedly said with what Allah supposedly said in his book.

having secret unethical relationships with other men.

How can you claim Islam has solved this problem? I know that there are lots of Muslim women still committing adultery and fornication in our world today.

lol…we respect Mother Mary (p) & we believe she was a Muslim woman . We know she never wore any provocative dress & mantioned proper hijab/ veil .

Read my post again & u will understand my comment was not to degrade her … I am not allowed to do so regarding Islamic teaching . I was asking that question to the poster who made a neg comment about Muslim women’s dress.

You live in a world of fantasies. If Mary was a Muslim, I am Alexander the Great.

According to Islam, Mary was not only Jesus’ mother, but also Moses and Aaron’s sister. Now you have another reason to respect her

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/peace;

Your dear messenger went against this so-called practical obligation and forced his many wives to commit major sins …

when Prophet (p) was alive , a choice was given to all his wives ;

O Prophet! say to your wives:

If you desire this world’s life and its adornment, then come, I will give you a provision and allow you to depart a goodly departing

And if you desire Allah and His Apostle and the latter abode, then surely Allah has prepared for the doers of good among you a mighty reward.

chapter 33. verses 28- 29]

It was Mother Aisha (p) who first responded & selected to stay as the honourable wife of the last Prophet & other wives also selected the same .

They refused to divorce the Prophet (p) & got the other options like ordinary Muslims women.

As all the wives of the Prophet (p) are considered as the Mothers of the Muslim Ummah , marriage was forbidden for them ( no Muslim man could marry his mom ) . They knew about it prior his death as revealition came during his life time .

It’s not like that Prophet (p) told his wives just before his death that , hey listen , u can’t marry anyone , ok ?

Why are foster-mothers and sisters not considered different from own mothers in Islam though? .

 

[Angelos]

Salaam/peace;

when Prophet (p) was alive , a choice was given to all his wives ;

O Prophet! say to your wives:

If you desire this world’s life and its adornment, then come, I will give you a provision and allow you to depart a goodly departing

And if you desire Allah and His Apostle and the latter abode, then surely Allah has prepared for the doers of good among you a mighty reward.

chapter 33. verses 28- 29]

It was Mother Aisha (p) who first responded & selected to stay as the honourable wife of the last Prophet & other wives also selected the same .

They refused to divorce the Prophet (p) & got the other options like ordinary Muslims women.

As all the wives of the Prophet (p) are considered as the Mothers of the Muslim Ummah , marriage was forbidden for them ( no Muslim man could marry his mom ) . They knew about it prior his death as revealition came during his life time .

It’s not like that Prophet (p) told his wives just before his death that , hey listen , u can’t marry anyone , ok ?

If it is not Mohammad, it is Allah asking those women to avoid marrying after Mohammad’s death.

The point is that Allah and/or Mohammad deemed it crucial to officially forbid Muslim men from marrying Mohammad’s wives in the Koran. It is not reasonable to assert that Mohammad’s wives voluntarily chose remaining widows when there is a rule in the Koran that prohibits such marriages in a theological context without regarding those women’s opinion or free will.

Besides, none of Mohammad’s wives was the biological mother of Muslim males. Although there was no biological association, marriage was prohibited. You Muslims always say that Mohammad could take Zainab as a wife because Zaid was not his real son. This is a weak argument that is undermined by the fact that Muslim men were not allowed to marry Mohammad’s wives even though they were not their real mothers. Everything is up to Mohammad’s choice, which results in arbitrariness and inconsistency.

the babies who were breast feeded by the same mom …marriage is forbidden between them ( between those bro & sis even if they are not blood related & mother ) . May be , there is some medical ground behind the bar .

What kind of medical obstacles? Please list them with scientific reference.

I also want to know why marrying the wife of one’s adopted son is allowed in the Koran.

this is the first time I have heard about such claim . She lost her necklace not dress . So , why she needed to wear bikini ?

Pl. fear God & don’t spread lies. Surely it’s not the teaching of blessed Prophet Jesus (p) or his respected mother.

This is the first time you have heard such a thing because this is also the first time I have heard a Muslim degrade and mock Mary through a meaningless question about mini-skirts.

Mine is a white lie compared to the Islamic lies spread by the Koran and Muslims about Jesus and His Gospel. For instance, you very often tell lies by saying that Mary and Jesus were Muslims. You should fear God and stop this nonsense. Thanks.

Salaam.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/peace;

I also want to know why marrying the wife of one’s adopted son is allowed in the Koran.

because God says so . It’s enough for Muslims that God says something in the holy book .

We ( mortal human being ) must not challenge God or Catholics are allowed to do it ?

here is a list to whom Muslims can or can’t marry :

And marry not woman whom your fathers married, except what has already passed; this surely is indecent and hateful, and it is an evil way.

Forbidden to you are your mothers and your daughters and your sisters and your paternal aunts

and your maternal aunts and brothers’ daughters and sisters’ daughters

and your mothers that have suckled you and your foster-sisters

and mothers of your wives and your step-daughters who are in your guardianship, (born) of your wives to whom you have gone in,

but if you have not gone in to them, there is no blame on you (in marrying them),

and the wives of your sons who are of your own loins and that you should have two sisters together, except what has already passed;

surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

chapter women , verse 22-23

This is the first time you have heard such a thing because this is also the first time I have heard a Muslim degrade and mock Mary through a meaningless question about mini-skirts.

 

[happyday]

Could you please tell us Christians where you read such a claim? Please cite evidence for Mary’s marriage at the age of 12. Thanks.

The Protoevangelium of James

“And behold, an angel of the Lord stood by [St. Anne], saying, ‘Anne! Anne! The Lord has heard your prayer, and you shall conceive and shall bring forth, and your seed shall be spoken of in all the world.’ And Anne said, ‘As the Lord my God lives, if I beget either male or female, I will bring it as a gift to the Lord my God, and it shall minister to him in the holy things all the days of its life.’ . . . And [from the time she was three] Mary was in the temple of the Lord as if she were a dove that dwelt there” (Protoevangelium of James 4, 7 [A.D. 120]).

“And when she was twelve years old there was held a council of priests, saying, ‘Behold, Mary has reached the age of twelve years in the temple of the Lord. What then shall we do with her, lest perchance she defile the sanctuary of the Lord?’ And they said to the high priest, ‘You stand by the altar of the Lord; go in and pray concerning her, and whatever the Lord shall manifest to you, that also will we do.’ . . . [A]nd he prayed concerning her, and behold, an angel of the Lord stood by him saying, ‘Zechariah! Zechariah! Go out and assemble the widowers of the people and let them bring each his rod, and to whomsoever the Lord shall show a sign, his wife shall she be. . . . And Joseph [was chosen]. . . . And the priest said to Joseph, ‘You have been chosen by lot to take into your keeping the Virgin of the Lord.’ But Joseph refused, saying, ‘I have children, and I am an old man, and she is a young girl’” (ibid., 8–9).

“And Annas the scribe came to him [Joseph] . . . and saw that Mary was with child. And he ran away to the priest and said to him, ‘Joseph, whom you did vouch for, has committed a grievous crime.’ And the priest said, ‘How so?’ And he said, ‘He has defiled the virgin whom he received out of the temple of the Lord and has married her by stealth’” (ibid., 15).

“And the priest said, ‘Mary, why have you done this? And why have you brought your soul low and forgotten the Lord your God?’ . . . And she wept bitterly saying, ‘As the Lord my God lives, I am pure before him, and know not man’” (ibid.).

catholic.com/library/mary_ever_virgin.asp

 

[Angelos]

Salaam/peace;

because God says so . It’s enough for Muslims that God says something in the holy book .

We ( mortal human being ) must not challenge God or Catholics are allowed to do it ?

here is a list to whom Muslims can or can’t marry :

And marry not woman whom your fathers married, except what has already passed; this surely is indecent and hateful, and it is an evil way.

Forbidden to you are your mothers and your daughters and your sisters and your paternal aunts

and your maternal aunts and brothers’ daughters and sisters’ daughters

and your mothers that have suckled you and your foster-sisters

and mothers of your wives and your step-daughters who are in your guardianship, (born) of your wives to whom you have gone in,

but if you have not gone in to them, there is no blame on you (in marrying them),

and the wives of your sons who are of your own loins and that you should have two sisters together, except what has already passed;

surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

chapter women , verse 22-23

I know that list in the Koran very well as a former Muslim. What I fail to see is why your scripture is so inconsistent. It lets Muslim men marry their son’s wife if the son has no biological affiliation, but prohibits marriage with foster-mothers and sisters although those fall into the same category of people that are not biologically related.

Thanks for the response anyway.

so it was an intentional lie of a Christan about Mother
Aisha (p) ?

Christians agree that Mother Mary (p) never wore mini skirt but they love to tease Muslim women because of the modest dresses they wear like Mother Mary (p) used to wear . lol what a double standard.

Yes , Muslims fear God & that’s the reason we will InshaAllah ( God Willing ) never stop telling the truth that all the Prophets including Jesus (p ) & Mother Mary (p) were Muslims.

It was as intentional and sarcastic as your lie about Virgin Mary’s dressing style. Not every modest dress is burqa or veil, to remind you. Mary was Jewish, and she naturally wore modest dresses like the rest of religious and pious Jewish women.

I see that you intentionally keep lying about Mary’s faith. However, I am not angry with you since I know that the big lie concerning Mary and Jesus’ religion is taught you by your scripture as the only truth.

Salaam

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

… Christians agree that Mother Mary (p) never wore mini skirt but they love to tease Muslim women because of the modest dresses they wear like Mother Mary (p) used to wear . lol what a double standard…

I only hate it when the Government forces women to wear the hijab and face covering etc…

 

[Angelos]

The Protoevangelium of James

“And behold, an angel of the Lord stood by [St. Anne], saying, ‘Anne! Anne! The Lord has heard your prayer, and you shall conceive and shall bring forth, and your seed shall be spoken of in all the world.’ And Anne said, ‘As the Lord my God lives, if I beget either male or female, I will bring it as a gift to the Lord my God, and it shall minister to him in the holy things all the days of its life.’ . . . And [from the time she was three] Mary was in the temple of the Lord as if she were a dove that dwelt there” (Protoevangelium of James 4, 7 [A.D. 120]).

“And when she was twelve years old there was held a council of priests, saying, ‘Behold, Mary has reached the age of twelve years in the temple of the Lord. What then shall we do with her, lest perchance she defile the sanctuary of the Lord?’ And they said to the high priest, ‘You stand by the altar of the Lord; go in and pray concerning her, and whatever the Lord shall manifest to you, that also will we do.’ . . . [A]nd he prayed concerning her, and behold, an angel of the Lord stood by him saying, ‘Zechariah! Zechariah! Go out and assemble the widowers of the people and let them bring each his rod, and to whomsoever the Lord shall show a sign, his wife shall she be. . . . And Joseph [was chosen]. . . . And the priest said to Joseph, ‘You have been chosen by lot to take into your keeping the Virgin of the Lord.’ But Joseph refused, saying, ‘I have children, and I am an old man, and she is a young girl’” (ibid., 8–9).

“And Annas the scribe came to him [Joseph] . . . and saw that Mary was with child. And he ran away to the priest and said to him, ‘Joseph, whom you did vouch for, has committed a grievous crime.’ And the priest said, ‘How so?’ And he said, ‘He has defiled the virgin whom he received out of the temple of the Lord and has married her by stealth’” (ibid., 15).

“And the priest said, ‘Mary, why have you done this? And why have you brought your soul low and forgotten the Lord your God?’ . . . And she wept bitterly saying, ‘As the Lord my God lives, I am pure before him, and know not man’” (ibid.).

It seems that your quotation is misleading since it is incomplete.
Nonetheless, I shall not accuse you of deliberately posting an incomplete reference.

I wanted some Muslims to prove that Mary gave birth to Jesus at the age of 12. Now I can see that you are trying to answer me on behalf of your Muslim brothers and sisters with the help of an apocryphal Gospel dating back to the second century A.D. I appreciate your zeal even though your response fails to prove that Mary bore Jesus at the age of 12. The part you selected from the apocryphal Gospel of James only says that Mary left the temple at the age of 12, but never implies that Jesus’ conception occurred in the same year. Actually, the following part taken from the same apocryophal Gospel of James - which is not quoted by you - makes it clear that miraculous conception took place when Mary was 16:

**Protevangelium XII **

And she made the purple and the scarlet and brought them unto the priest. And the priest blessed her and said: Mary, the Lord God hath magnified thy name, and thou shalt be blessed among all generations of the earth. And Mary rejoiced and went away unto Elizabeth her kinswoman: and she knocked at the door. And Elizabeth when she heard it cast down the scarlet (al. the wool) and ran to the door and opened it, and when she saw Mary she blessed her and said: Whence is this to me that the mother of my Lord should come unto me ? for behold that which is in me leaped and blessed thee. And Mary forgat the mysteries which Gabriel the archangel had told her, and she looked up unto the heaven and said: Who am I, Lord, that all the generations of the earth do bless me ? And she abode three months with Elizabeth, and day by day her womb grew: and Mary was afraid and departed unto her house and hid herself from the children of Israel. Now she was sixteen years old when these mysteries came to pass.