Islam in Italy

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eleusis

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I am a graduate student begining research into the threat of radical Islam and immigration/population growth of Muslims in Italy on the Italian culture and the Catholic religion. I am looking at the potential destabilizing effects as the Italians confront the cultural challenge of this ethnic group’s growth in size and corresponding political power. I am currious if there is a movement among the Catholic religious to confront and or oppose Muslim efforts to gain concessions (such as the removal of the Crucifix from the public classrooms or restrict wear of head scarves ect).

The seat of the Catholic faith is in Rome and the possibility of ethnic strife actually igniting conflict in the streets is possible in the next 20 to 30 years and because of the significance of this for Catholics the ramifications of such violence or terrorism directed against the Vatican itself is quite real. The domino effect of such a stuggle will impact NATO and of course the United States.

I can travel to Italy to interview gov’t officials or leaders and I speak limited Italian. I am open to suggestions for avenues of investigation. If anyone has suggested points of contact with people who may have interest in the area of this study or know of news articles or literature please post the link or kindly drop me a personal email at my student account STDRLS47@SHSU.EDU.

Thank you much,
 
I am a muslim, and honestly i wouldnt want any country to feel threat of muslim over population or somthing , but i guess the answer will be in encouraging non muslims to make stable and happy families and having many children . I really wish they do because ity will be just rediculous to accuse muslims of over babies making!!!

As for teh crusifix thing , i think muslims would only want rules to apply for all . If you allow crusifix then please allow headscrves. If you ban all religious symbols then ban them ALL.

Thanks
 
Hey If I moved to Saudi Arabia and started demanding that I not hear the quran in public schools or feel like I couldnt express myself as a Catholic they would laugh at me, then call me names, and probably thorw me in jail. Why does the west bend over backwards of immigrants. You come to our countries assimilate and adopt our culture.

Thanks
 
Well i dont think it is reasonable for muslims to ask they dont hear christian music or stuff or hearing the bible in public places . These things or demands are usually a reaction of may be a ban on muslim prayer or ban on headscarves. But here we have christians in public schools having their own religion teacehrs and religion classes. Besides when you come to my country we dont force you to assimilate into anything why ask this from us?
 
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meedo:
Well i dont think it is reasonable for muslims to ask they dont hear christian music or stuff or hearing the bible in public places . These things or demands are usually a reaction of may be a ban on muslim prayer or ban on headscarves. But here we have christians in public schools having their own religion teacehrs and religion classes. Besides when you come to my country we dont force you to assimilate into anything why ask this from us?
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No Copt in Egypt has religious instruction in the school system.
They are forced to study the Quran.

They have to learn Christianity at home and in Church.

Which is why they understand the problems with the Quran so very well.
 
false dear , the copts go out when it comes to religion class to their own coptic religion class. There is no Quran for coptics. Come here and see.

salam
 
As for why theya re learned about the Quran , it is not from school definetly lol. Boy i didnt learn any thing at school lol. And it was supposed to be Islamic school . It was a typical secular school no nmore no less except it wasnt mixed and female teachers wore Hijab.

Copts Know and are taught arabic just as muslims. So for them it isnt a big deal to understand teh Quran . Islam doesnt have secrets or things that the layman couldnt understand . All is out for public view and all books whatsoever are there in libraries and in book fairs. I once even helped a Coptic priest buy a book about islam in the book fair.

where are you from Hawk?
 
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meedo:
I am a muslim, and honestly i wouldnt want any country to feel threat of muslim over population or somthing , but i guess the answer will be in encouraging non muslims to make stable and happy families and having many children . I really wish they do because ity will be just rediculous to accuse muslims of over babies making!!!

As for teh crusifix thing , i think muslims would only want rules to apply for all . If you allow crusifix then please allow headscrves. If you ban all religious symbols then ban them ALL.

Thanks
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The threat is real. Europe is depopulating itself by age because they have decided that small families with more money is more important than having more children and less money for a BMW. The demographics are set and without concerted effort irreversable, Europe will become a Muslim land conqured by the wombs of their women. So whether you want the natives to feel threatened they will and do. It is a cultural difference between large and small families and Europe has opted for the smaller ones. We ignore the direction of the Holy Spirit through the Holy Mother the Church at our own peril.

The native Arab nations are not Secular states but religious ones who don’t subscribe to the western notion of equality of religions. I am surprised to see a Muslim say he wants to be treated equally when the reality is they just don’t want our religion or culture impressed upon their children. They don’t come here to Europe to integrate, they come to live and bring their culture and religion with them. Statistics show that Muslim women and men are NOT marrying into the European society but are in-fact bringing in their mates from the home lands and growing their cultures anew.

Paint a happy face on it all you wish, but the statistics and the reality of the cultural habits of the Muslims don’t lie. At the current rate of decline in Western birthrates and increase in Muslim ones Europe will be a Muslim land by the middle of the 22nd Century.

This will not be painless. And how Italy is going to face this tectonic shift is what I want to analyze for my Thesis.
 
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meedo:
false dear , the copts go out when it comes to religion class to their own coptic religion class. There is no Quran for coptics. Come here and see.

salam
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Maybe we should pm copt, a member, she would be happy to share clarify the situation with you.

eh?
 
eleusis

Exactly what are you complaining of?

Did we force you to have less children!!! I am surprised that people heep it all on muslims just becaus ethey want a BMW !!! And besids peopel marry whomever they want !!! If they want they marry !! shoudl we make a quota of muslims that MUST marry europeans?!

What is Integration?!!! I just want to know and i iwll make a thread for this .

Hawk , yes please lets have a copt here without PMs . Justy you invite them and lest have a discussion.

Thanks
meedo
 
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meedo:
eleusis

Exactly what are you complaining of?

Did we force you to have less children!!! I am surprised that people heep it all on muslims just becaus ethey want a BMW !!! And besids peopel marry whomever they want !!! If they want they marry !! shoudl we make a quota of muslims that MUST marry europeans?!

What is Integration?!!! I just want to know and i iwll make a thread for this .

Hawk , yes please lets have a copt here without PMs . Justy you invite them and lest have a discussion.

Thanks
meedo
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Meedo,
You misunderstand. I am not complaining. I am stating the factual situation and looking to learn how the Italians will deal with their racial dethroning. I mean no offense.

Personally I have four children with more to come (?) I love having a big family.
Correct you should marry whom you wish but typically a foreigner arrives, finds work, finds a mate of the locals and produces a hybrid child. That child grows in the culture of the adopted land. This is integration. This isn’t how the Islamic culture works. They arrive, find work, send away for a mate or marry a Muslim in the community, shut their females out of public and raise the child a strict Muslim and produce a truely Muslim community. If you wish I can site the articles covering honor killings in Germany and France where women are killed by their male relatives for becoming “too Western”.
This Muslim invasion is not offensive to me, this is the reality of what is going on and I can site multiple sources from my research. Please ease up on the frothing and perception of my bigotry, I am only looking to determine the strategic security impact that a destabilized Italy will have on Nato and the USA and predecit or suggest to the community how to respond. After all the USA is being taken over by the Hispanics, the caucasians of European descent are also going the way of the Dodo (but in the USA the Mexicans and others meld into our culture and adopt our ways and ideals so the USA may become mostly Hispanic and Catholic but it will be American all the same unlike a Muslim Europe). I am sure you can see the potential for conflict in this future?
Do you have on-line resources or articles you may be able to share with me? Thank you for taking time to read my post and respond
 
Meedo,

““Personally I have four children with more to come (?) I love having a big family.””

May God Grant you more . And may God doesnt make muslims the victim of BMWs lol.

“Correct you should marry whom you wish but typically a foreigner arrives, finds work, finds a mate of the locals and produces a hybrid child. That child grows in the culture of the adopted land. This is integration.”

I dont think Integration should define whom you marry . Integration is about relation of single individuals to the wider population. I mean i can amrry from my own country but integration is about how me and my wife adapt to the new country , right?

" “This isn’t how the Islamic culture works. They arrive, find work, send away for a mate or marry a Muslim in the community, shut their females out of public and raise the child a strict Muslim and produce a truely Muslim community. If you wish I can site the articles covering honor killings in Germany and France where women are killed by their male relatives for becoming “too Western””

All you said doesnt hurt Integration except two things and ironically they arent really islamic .

1- Shut their females out of Public
2- Honor killings

Both these things arent really islamic , an example of the first is the struggle for Muslims girls to get educated while having their headscarves on while the state banned them . This is a typical example of Xenophobia that will be counter productive. Now Many Muslims girls CHOSE to sit at home because the FOCRED integration . Who is putting the females at home?!!! isiit their parents who want them to get educated and integrate or the government who doesnt like how they look in headscarf?!!

There is alot of things that can be solved if there are good intentions. There is nothing In Islam that calls women to be in shut in homes. Women should get same Education as men and same Job oppertunities . Now we all KNOW what racism play in Europe. There are many examples of successful integration everywhere. The problem is Only in Europe mainly because of the Xenophobia there thats all . At least that is my opinion. Same muslim people go to Canada and the US and latin america . You never hear problems there. Its this ever lasting feeling that immigrants are lower species who doesnt know how to do anything . May be if you give people the chance and be kind and fair to them may be these problems wont arise right ?

Teh second issue is Honor killing . First it is not Islamic and it isnt condoned by Islam . But its culture yes . Personally i think that whoever doesnt want his children to have premarital relationships and sex and stuff shouldnt go to Europe. But sadly people go there for a better living . if i would go to Europe iu would put my children in an Islamic shcool not for the reason to Not Integrate . But to keep them away from those evils. The problem and teh differece between middle eastern culture and European is that the west tend to set children free after 18 while in the middle east the family takes care of their children untill they married . ofcourse seeing their children ruining their lives and later on come crying at their door for bf/ gf break up and teen pregnancies.

Its a cultural issue and not Islamic.

to be continued
 
""This Muslim invasion is not offensive to me, this is the reality of what is going on and I can site multiple sources from my research. “”

Sir , just somthing i want to tell you . Muslims ( and i am talking about mainstream muslims which are the majority) dont really think of any invasion. They think of going to europe to get a better life Thats all . Now you can get me whatever Internet sites and stuff of some hardliners which dont constitute any sort of Majority at all in Muslims . 95% of muslims who immigrate never even have this thought come to their mind. But yes they might turn self consious if they feel they are despised or peopel bieng xenophobic to them . You dont need to site the sources you have . Muslims constitute 5 % of Europe . Christians constitute much more higher % of teh arab world and we never feel theya re a trheat . They are part of us and they are accepted as they are . They drink, we dont , they doesnt wear Hijab, we do , they wear crosses we dont . Still we are confident . May be if you try to be mreo inclusive and understanding adn helping instead of sitting away critisizing everything . I am sure these people have some good in them in which you can benefit from .

""Please ease up on the frothing and perception of my bigotry, I am only looking to determine the strategic security impact that a destabilized Italy will have on Nato and the USA and predecit or suggest to the community how to respond. After all the USA is being taken over by the Hispanics, the caucasians of European descent are also going the way of the Dodo “”

You knwo really i am not refering to YOU as YOU i am refferring to europeans and ofcourse not all of them are xenophobic but some substantial part of them.

“”"(but in the USA the Mexicans and others meld into our culture and adopt our ways and ideals so the USA may become mostly Hispanic and Catholic but it will be American all the same unlike a Muslim Europe).""

Yes but that is not because of muslims that is because that USA is an immkigrant country while Europe doesnt necessarily regard itself as such . There are 7 Million muslims in teh US and 500,000 in canada . They integrate fine . And there isnt such problems because every body is immigrant there . Its a mix and meltpot .There are muslims in North america and latin america and Europe . In fact palestinians in latin america have gone up high as presidents and senior officisal there . There is NO problem of integhration because there isnt Xenophobia!!!

Why is it only Europe? have you ever asked your self that ?

I am sure you can see the potential for conflict in this future?

If both parties ( and i mean BOTH and not just muslims) try hartd to be inclusive and acceptive then no problema nd no conflicts. Europeans should stop the Policy of a kid and a dog and then whine about other people wanting to make families.

“”“Do you have on-line resources or articles you may be able to share with me? Thank you for taking time to read my post and respond”"

I dont have at the moment but i have been reading amny articles about this . If i have some i will share with You godwillingy . But personally i feeel that you are talking to someone here from the middle east and telling you how we do feel is somthing you can try toi study beside books. try to get to know people , may be go and ask muslims themselves what is the problem .

believe me , i dont think its on the mind of the vast of majority of muslims that they are adding toi the invasion of Europe!!! They just want to have a better life and may be one day go back .

salam
 
meedo said:
""
Sir , just somthing i want to tell you . Muslims ( and i am talking about mainstream muslims which are the majority) dont really think of any invasion. They think of going to europe to get a better life Thats all … May be if you try to be mreo inclusive and understanding adn helping instead of sitting away critisizing everything . I am sure these people have some good in them in which you can benefit from .

There are muslims in North america and latin america and Europe . In fact palestinians in latin america have gone up high as presidents and senior officisal there . There is NO problem of integhration because there isnt Xenophobia!!!

Why is it only Europe? have you ever asked your self that ?

believe me , i dont think its on the mind of the vast of majority of muslims that they are adding toi the invasion of Europe!!! They just want to have a better life and may be one day go back .

salam
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The term invasion is a general term, for the result is the same even if the intent wasn’t conquest but bread for the children. Again you misunderstand me, I am not critical of the situation nor of Muslims for coming to Europe. I am just looking at how the Italians will deal with it.

Your question about why the USA and Canada mix them well while the Europeans don’t is a very good point and I believe I will have to address that one. Thank you.

But lets not be coy, a Christian in Saudi Arabia must pay a tax to remain a Christian. They are also not allowed to wear their religious medals openly, the US soldiers even had to hide their bibles to avoid offending then natives. So your belief that the Muslims are wonderful and all inclusive is disingenuous.

But again I am not debating the right or wrong of Muslims coming to Europe and out populating the natives, I am looking to analyze and predict to prepare our leaders to deal with how the Italians will react when they finally feel their backs to the wall. (Interestingly many European countries are paying cash bounties to families who have babies, there is a possible non-lethal technique for confronting the problem!)
 
Saudi again and again and again. Saudi arabia is a special case in muslim countries and you come here in Egypt and holdd your bible up high as you wish !! Besides this is off the topic.

Europe must :

1- Educate children at young age that Marriage and babies are important for production and growth.

2- Give more cash to peopel who have babies

3- Give more vacations to people who have babies

May be there is more, but i mean here in Egypt we have chrsitians who multiply in many and we musloims do the same too . Its not about Islam its about your culture. Americans multiply many and so middle easterns, weather muslims or not . Europe has a problem weather muslims are there or not .

besides really , Muslims are 3 % of Italy !!! how can be a threat there?!
 
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meedo:
Saudi again and again and again. Saudi arabia is a special case in muslim countries…
besides really , Muslims are 3 % of Italy !!! how can be a threat there?!
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Perhaps they are “special” but that doesn’t deminish the reality that the home of Islam persecutes people for a belief in Jesus.

Muslims are currently 5% and no at this moment they are not a threat but I am forcasting trends 15 to 30 years out and the demographic numbers predict their ascendency.

I have to go to class now. Have a nice day.
 
Well saudi doesnt target the belief in Jesus . Saudi just want to be Islamic.

why dont you give us some soloutions or ideas. I am really interested on what you have to say .

Thanks
 
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meedo:
Well saudi doesnt target the belief in Jesus . Saudi just want to be Islamic.
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Perhaps other countries would prefer to remain (nominally) Christian.
 
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