Islam in the Divine Plan that would always Be

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Islam in the Divine Plan that would always Be

I believe Islam is included in the five great forms of religion that would more or less be bound to arise in any Divine Plan to redeem a world, if the world fell and it received Incarnate One.

For now, I just summarize from my book.

Wouldn’t the following three things always be predestined if God was going to Incarnate to a world:

General Mediating Fathers (Bishops) that preserve an Explicit, Rigorous Revelation (Tradition)
A Supreme Mediating, Unifying Father (the Pope)
Poetic, Implied Revelation (Scripture)

If you are Catholic, you would say, but of course (for the reasons of Christian unity but to still leave a poetic inspiration for the heart, even if it is susceptible to misinterpretation.)

In addition, two things simply are in this world and cannot not be, based on the assumption that Incarnate One comes:

The Trinity and Incarnation
Reason

The Trinity cannot not be, it is not contingent, it just is. We have assumed an Incarnation, and Reason cannot not be. Reason just exists, and any rational creature has reason, it is inescapable.

And who would argue if you are Catholic that in any such world with these, the sources of truth above would be ordered as follows from most reliable source of truth down to least reliable source of truth:
  1. The Trinity and Incarnation
  2. A Supreme Mediating, Unifying Father (the Pope)
  3. General Mediating Fathers (Bishops) that preserve an Explicit, Rigorous Revelation (Tradition)
  4. Poetic, Implied Revelation (Scripture)
  5. Reason
In addition, who would argue that this list has the reverse quality of evidency for the source’s legitimacy: the top source is the most hidden, the least evident, the next source is more evident, down to the bottom source, reason, which is the most evident source of truth.

From my book:

Now, suppose God Incarnates to World. Wouldn’t Incarnate One’s People have to journey the path of the saint, the purgative, the illuminative, and the unitive?

Therefore, just as the saint’s flesh rebels against the incoming spirit as initial reaction to his justification, and stings the flesh, so the outside world of the Incarnate One’s society will react first to the infusion of Her Spirit by stinging her flesh, persecution.

Therefore, something like the persecution of pagan Rome is another predestined age, not accidental but necessary for the renewal of a world.

Once the sting is resolved, the Church will enter the illuminate way, will they not? That is, they will probe the deposit of faith.

Too also, the dragon will seek to tear down the faith which emanates from the sources of above, in ANY world.

But HOW will the dragon attack the sources? Randomly? He has to have a plan, doesn’t he? Can he dethrone them all at once? With Bishops’ and martyrs’ blood on the ground so fresh, God forbid.

He’ll have to boil the frog slowly.

But then in what manner?

The dragon is not dumb, he knows all about the sources we just saw.

And hence, if a lawyer has conjectures of his enemy to dethrone, what can we say, will he come swinging out at the most evident things against him? No way. A smart but devious lawyer sets out to debunk the LEAST evident things first, then progresses toward the MORE evident.

Hence, the dragon will dethrone the sources in the order we have them, from LEAST evident, to MOST evident, that is, descending the list above.

Therefore, it is predestined in ANY fallen world that receives Incarnate One, the stages of doctrinal attack will be like our world in the big picture:

Attack Trinity and Incarnation Mystery

Attack Supreme Mediating Father

Attack General Mediating Fathers

Attack Scripture

Attack Reason

Note, however, the Trinity and Incarnation has many mysteries and dogmas. Would probably be hard for the dragon to attack the Trinity and Christ all at once then. Therefore, first in part, then in full:
  1. Attack Trinity and Incarnation Mystery in PART (initial confounding of doctrines on Trinity and Incarnation, but still retain Christ as final word, in our world, 300 - 600 AD)
  2. Attack Trinity and Incarnation Mystery in FULL (totally deny Trinity and Incarnation and attack final nature of Christological Revelation by claiming SURPASSING Revelation to Incarnate One, in our world, 600 AD)
This second religion is just a type of Islam, hence Islam would exist in any fallen world that receives Incarnate One.
  1. Then attack Peter, schism, our world, 1000 AD
  2. Then get Bishops in part, to fall, our world, 1300 - 1500 AD
  3. Then reject Bishops and Tradition (heretical rebellion, like Protestantism, our world 1500 AD)
  4. Massive chaos breeds loss of faith in supernatural religion, even Scripture, a supernatural death retaining only Reason for religion (the “Enlightenment”), our world 1700 AD
  5. Total darkness, reject even Reason, godless apostasy, our world, 1950ish AD
 
Im not sure of this Divine Plan, but I more importantly I think the Divine plan is to evangelize. Islam straightforwardly denies Jesus Crucifixion and that he had to suffer and die for the Redemption of the world. Therefore, the Islam view has to be corrected with Christian love.

MJ
 
MartinJordan said:
Im not sure of this Divine Plan, but I more importantly I think the Divine plan is to evangelize. Islam straightforwardly denies Jesus Crucifixion and that he had to suffer and die for the Redemption of the world. Therefore, the Islam view has to be corrected with Christian love.

MJ
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this is a poor comment. 😦
 
How so, and whats the solution? Sorry I don’t use Facebook not interested. But send me a PM… title/author when “published”.
 
spauline said:
Islam in the Divine Plan that would always Be

I believe Islam is included in the five great forms of religion that would more or less be bound to arise in any Divine Plan to redeem a world, if the world fell and it received Incarnate One.

For now, I just summarize from my book.

Wouldn’t the following three things always be predestined if God was going to Incarnate to a world:

General Mediating Fathers (Bishops) that preserve an Explicit, Rigorous Revelation (Tradition)
A Supreme Mediating, Unifying Father (the Pope)
Poetic, Implied Revelation (Scripture)

If you are Catholic, you would say, but of course (for the reasons of Christian unity but to still leave a poetic inspiration for the heart, even if it is susceptible to misinterpretation.)

In addition, two things simply are in this world and cannot not be, based on the assumption that Incarnate One comes:

The Trinity and Incarnation
Reason

The Trinity cannot not be, it is not contingent, it just is. We have assumed an Incarnation, and Reason cannot not be. Reason just exists, and any rational creature has reason, it is inescapable.

And who would argue if you are Catholic that in any such world with these, the sources of truth above would be ordered as follows from most reliable source of truth down to least reliable source of truth:
  1. The Trinity and Incarnation
  2. A Supreme Mediating, Unifying Father (the Pope)
  3. General Mediating Fathers (Bishops) that preserve an Explicit, Rigorous Revelation (Tradition)
  4. Poetic, Implied Revelation (Scripture)
  5. Reason
In addition, who would argue that this list has the reverse quality of evidency for the source’s legitimacy: the top source is the most hidden, the least evident, the next source is more evident, down to the bottom source, reason, which is the most evident source of truth.

From my book:

Now, suppose God Incarnates to World. Wouldn’t Incarnate One’s People have to journey the path of the saint, the purgative, the illuminative, and the unitive?

Therefore, just as the saint’s flesh rebels against the incoming spirit as initial reaction to his justification, and stings the flesh, so the outside world of the Incarnate One’s society will react first to the infusion of Her Spirit by stinging her flesh, persecution.

Therefore, something like the persecution of pagan Rome is another predestined age, not accidental but necessary for the renewal of a world.

Once the sting is resolved, the Church will enter the illuminate way, will they not? That is, they will probe the deposit of faith.

Too also, the dragon will seek to tear down the faith which emanates from the sources of above, in ANY world.

But HOW will the dragon attack the sources? Randomly? He has to have a plan, doesn’t he? Can he dethrone them all at once? With Bishops’ and martyrs’ blood on the ground so fresh, God forbid.

He’ll have to boil the frog slowly.

But then in what manner?

The dragon is not dumb, he knows all about the sources we just saw.

And hence, if a lawyer has conjectures of his enemy to dethrone, what can we say, will he come swinging out at the most evident things against him? No way. A smart but devious lawyer sets out to debunk the LEAST evident things first, then progresses toward the MORE evident.

Hence, the dragon will dethrone the sources in the order we have them, from LEAST evident, to MOST evident, that is, descending the list above.

Therefore, it is predestined in ANY fallen world that receives Incarnate One, the stages of doctrinal attack will be like our world in the big picture:

Attack Trinity and Incarnation Mystery

Attack Supreme Mediating Father

Attack General Mediating Fathers

Attack Scripture

Attack Reason

Note, however, the Trinity and Incarnation has many mysteries and dogmas. Would probably be hard for the dragon to attack the Trinity and Christ all at once then. Therefore, first in part, then in full:
  1. Attack Trinity and Incarnation Mystery in PART (initial confounding of doctrines on Trinity and Incarnation, but still retain Christ as final word, in our world, 300 - 600 AD)
  2. Attack Trinity and Incarnation Mystery in FULL (totally deny Trinity and Incarnation and attack final nature of Christological Revelation by claiming SURPASSING Revelation to Incarnate One, in our world, 600 AD)
This second religion is just a type of Islam, hence Islam would exist in any fallen world that receives Incarnate One.
  1. Then attack Peter, schism, our world, 1000 AD
  2. Then get Bishops in part, to fall, our world, 1300 - 1500 AD
  3. Then reject Bishops and Tradition (heretical rebellion, like Protestantism, our world 1500 AD)
  4. Massive chaos breeds loss of faith in supernatural religion, even Scripture, a supernatural death retaining only Reason for religion (the “Enlightenment”), our world 1700 AD
  5. Total darkness, reject even Reason, godless apostasy, our world, 1950ish AD
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Incarnate One is in fact Jesus Christ, the One, True Lord and God of all.

The Immaculate, Perpetual Virgin, Mother of God is nowhere mentioned in your…dissertation.

What, I think, are the 3 pillars of truth that you make-somewhat-reference to are: Scripture, Magisterium and Divine Revelation.

And so many other, " elevated" or “new age” terms that have a simple catholic perspective, would then ring true!

Be that as it may…The Catholic church is the one, true church that Christ intended to exist after His ascension into heaven and of which He left Peter as it’s first Pope…264 popes later to Pope Benedict XVI. And the gates of hell have and will not prevail against her.

All true christians will in due time, return to the catholic church. And even some that are not christians will come into the catholic faith. Under the violent and murderous temper of Islam…this is when the heads will begin to roll.

The catalyst for this [return and entrance] will probably be the Warning and the Permanent Miracle.

In the meantime, praying the Rosary is of utmost importance for catholics and christian denominations alike. A life of prayer and a life of the spirit-nurtured by the sacraments…especially the sacrament of confession and communion.

In hoc signo vinces.
 
mangy_dog said:
Incarnate One is in fact Jesus Christ, the One, True Lord and God of all.

The Immaculate, Perpetual Virgin, Mother of God is nowhere mentioned in your…dissertation.

What, I think, are the 3 pillars of truth that you make-somewhat-reference to are: Scripture, Magisterium and Divine Revelation.

And so many other, " elevated" or “new age” terms that have a simple catholic perspective, would then ring true!

Be that as it may…The Catholic church is the one, true church that Christ intended to exist after His ascension into heaven and of which He left Peter as it’s first Pope…264 popes later to Pope Benedict XVI. And the gates of hell have and will not prevail against her.

All true christians will in due time, return to the catholic church. And even some that are not christians will come into the catholic faith. Under the violent and murderous temper of Islam…this is when the heads will begin to roll.

The catalyst for this [return and entrance] will probably be the Warning and the Permanent Miracle.

In the meantime, praying the Rosary is of utmost importance for catholics and christian denominations alike. A life of prayer and a life of the spirit-nurtured by the sacraments…especially the sacrament of confession and communion.

In hoc signo vinces.
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My five sources are valid:

Scripture
Tradition and Bishops
the Pope

is essentially the same thing as Scripture, Tradition, and Magisteirum, but it is more precise.

i agree, they will all be reunited one day, that will happen after the Minor Chastisement.

i agree with you. I have meditation on the Two Wtinesses if you like.
 
spauline said:
My five sources are valid:

Scripture
Tradition and Bishops
the Pope

is essentially the same thing as Scripture, Tradition, and Magisteirum, but it is more precise.

i agree, they will all be reunited one day, that will happen after the Minor Chastisement.

i agree with you. I have meditation on the Two Wtinesses if you like.
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I’m sure your heart is in the right place. It’s just that I am very traditional when it comes to terminology concerning Catholicism and very weary of new terms for traditional things.

Nothing personal.
 
mangy_dog said:
I’m sure your heart is in the right place. It’s just that I am very traditional when it comes to terminology concerning Catholicism and very weary of new terms for traditional things.

Nothing personal.
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no problem, Mangy. 🙂
 
In the dissertation above, you reference the Dragon. I do not think that is required in your plan. I agree that the dragon, worm, snake does exist, but it, like trinity, is contingent upon revelation.
 
Evan said:
In the dissertation above, you reference the Dragon. I do not think that is required in your plan. I agree that the dragon, worm, snake does exist, but it, like trinity, is contingent upon revelation.
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i assume the angels were created by God and have already fallen, and that God allows the angels to seduce the material creatures to sin because of the good from the He can draw from it.
 
spauline said:
i assume the angels were created by God and have already fallen, and that God allows the angels to seduce the material creatures to sin because of the good from the He can draw from it.
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Correct. You have made that assumption. And what I am saying is that, like the trinity, that must be revealed, along with the existence of angelic being.

From the existence of the universe, we can deduce the existence of God and with that, the option for an incarnation and/or revelation. That provides us with

General Mediating Fathers (Bishops) that preserve an Explicit Revelation (Tradition)
A Supreme Mediating, Unifying Father (the Pope)
Written, Implied Revelation (Scripture)

The Trinity cannot not be deduced, it is just revealed.
We have assumed an Incarnation.
Reason must be for there to be rational beings.

So if we need the existence of Fallen Angels (dragon) this must be revealed to assume influence from such beings.
      • Side note: the use of Poetic, I have replace with written. Poetic sometimes has the implications of exaggerated or confusing verbiage. I believe written does not carry such implications in the common understanding.
 
Evan said:
Correct. You have made that assumption. And what I am saying is that, like the trinity, that must be revealed, along with the existence of angelic being.

From the existence of the universe, we can deduce the existence of God and with that, the option for an incarnation and/or revelation. That provides us with

General Mediating Fathers (Bishops) that preserve an Explicit Revelation (Tradition)
A Supreme Mediating, Unifying Father (the Pope)
Written, Implied Revelation (Scripture)

The Trinity cannot not be deduced, it is just revealed.
We have assumed an Incarnation.
Reason must be for there to be rational beings.

So if we need the existence of Fallen Angels (dragon) this must be revealed to assume influence from such beings.
      • Side note: the use of Poetic, I have replace with written. Poetic sometimes has the implications of exaggerated or confusing verbiage. I believe written does not carry such implications in the common understanding.
Click to expand...
sorry, what i meant was is that it is not possible the Trinity to not exist. It just is, and hence is a given.

I agree, angels don’t need to exist, but in the above dissertation, I have already assumed that God Planned and created the angels and that some HAPPEND to fall.

I think you are misunderstanding part of what I am talking about
 
spauline said:
sorry, what i meant was is that it is not possible the Trinity to not exist. It just is, and hence is a given.

I agree, angels don’t need to exist, but in the above dissertation, I have already assumed that God Planned and created the angels and that some HAPPEND to fall.

I think you are misunderstanding part of what I am talking about
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OK. I was just confused as to what you were putting down as required and as revealed. I was hoping you would distinguish between the two in your final draft.

Good Luck with these efforts.
 
Evan said:
OK. I was just confused as to what you were putting down as required and as revealed. I was hoping you would distinguish between the two in your final draft.

Good Luck with these efforts.
Click to expand...
thank you, Evan. 🙂
 
I think the chastisement is brewing, and it seems to be following the path of doctrinal history…

First, from like 300 - 600, there were Trinitarian heresies and Incarnational heresies that were in part, but not like Islam, which was total.

Then Islam in 600, total attack on Trinity and Incarnation.

Then the East became bitter at Peter, 1000.

Then spiritual terrorism erupted: great heretical rebellion: 1500

Fast forward to modern times:

Modern Islamic terrorism began minor in the early stages of our modern apostasy of the sex revolution.

Then came 9-11, a big Islamic terror. Islamic terrorism continues in perpetual birth pangs.

What is now happening the last week may be a larger wave of Islamic horror, perhaps supreme act of horror worse than 9-11, a third world war?

Too, Russia and the Eastern godless civs, like China, sympathize with Islamics more than the West

May pave the way for the "“annihilation of entire nations”, cuz if we go in to clean up Islam, Russia and China may protest.

If Russia strikes, then comes spiritual terrorism: The heretics: after the nuclear, people will poo their pants, and will cry out to God for mercy; Enter the 100 categories of Protestantism, all of whom, mutually conflicting, say, follow me or perish, but which of the 100 fiery conflictors must I follow?

That will seal the reversion of the world:

The warning will put the Presumptuos Protestants in their place.

People will long for spiritual certainty and stability, and only Rome gives that.

Hence, the reunion of Christians, the renewal of man, the Age of Our Lady’s Triumph, Spiritual and Temporal Peace
 
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