Islam is a religion of peace and is tolerant of other religions?

[Abd_al-Haqq]

kristyn:

I have had MANY intellectual discussions with my boyfriend, of course you miss the point because you don’t know how to see my point. I can have an intellectual discussion with you anytime, but really, it is pointless. What I am saying is conversions seldom come FROM intellectual thought, they come from God’s grace, thru witness and HUMILITY (something, sadly, you lack).

Side note: Actually “thinking” has a lot to do with it, and it plagues your missionary efforts. Here is a link to a Christian who has researched the issue, and is trying to figure out why it is that the average age for a Christian convert is in their teens, why for Islam they are in their early 30s. Hope this helps the issue.
christianitytoday.com/ct/2002/100/32.0.html

Now on to the thread: No, your point was very clear, the problem seems to be that you cannot make up your mind if a person should think before entering your faith or if an intellectual conversation is I order. You want me to know that your boyfriend is ex-Muslim, but it was from his heart. Now you say that there is intellectualism there, but you still cannot share it with me, because in both cases, my heart is not open. The heart should never open ahead of the intellect. Your label that I lack humility, therefore I cannot really understand what you have to say is “Missionary” linguistics for “don’t worry if it does not make sense, just believe and you will see”. Furthermore, if “a display of humility” (something you have not actually explained) is a sign of someone who can accept Jesus as Gd, then it would appear that many “Christians” on this forum do not really have what it takes to accept Jesus.

Debate forum with free speech:
forum.bismikaallahuma.org/

kristyn:

Again, you bring up intellectual knowledge, which ironically most Mulsims do not have (this, we agree), and those are the ones that are peaceful. You see, ( and yes I am making a blanket stament, but I do have knowledge to back it up), the ones who DO know the Faith the way is was intended by your Prophet are those, who for the most part, are not found in our Western Culture, they are represented by Osama, and the rest.

Please read what I write clearly. I did not say, in general, that most Muslims are ignorant; I said those who leave their faith. I am having problems with the lack of coherence in what you are trying to posit. I want to break it down and allow you to “clarify” before I respond, that way there is no “misunderstandings”.
Now let’s look at your “assertions”.
You said, “Most Muslims do not have Intellectual Knowledge and they are the ones who are peaceful”.
Furthermore, you are saying, “Intellectual knowledge is knowledge about Islam as taught by the Prophet (saw)”.
And you also said, “Osama bin Laden has intellectual knowledge therefore he practices Islam as taught by the prophet and he is non-peaceful”.
Understand, knowledge does not prove an assertion, a belief, etc. Evidence, facts, used in an argument (discussion) proves a belief, assertion, idea, etc, etc. I will comment on this, as long as we are straight that this is what you believe? Please revise and correct me.

 

[MVH]

Abd: Actually, as far as the trinitarian Christianity that you have come to follow, you owe your thanks to Paul, a man who never met Jesus, and who knew nothing about him. A man who gave an interpretation based upon a vision, who had not claim to prophethood, and had not obvious authority to make the changes he did. He was sent off to the gentiles because his interpretation was offensive to those who actually had known Jesus. Pointing out the problems with Paul is not a conspiracy theory, which requires several men, not one.

The topic of the thread is whether Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance – not about your opinions on how the doctrine on the Trinity was developed. You should start another thread if you really want to discuss the Trinity.

Regarding tolerance, I think it is one thing to say that many Islamic nations are tolerant of other religious groups simply because these groups were not exterminated in your lands. However, don’t you find this disingenuous when it is clear that Saudi Arabia and Indonesia, among other places, forbid any public display of Christian items, forbids any place of worship, and reserves the right to randomly search houses where Christians are trying to worship in private? Also, would be appreciated if you can discuss the situation of Islam today – not 500 or 1000 years ago.

 

[Abd_al-Haqq]

kristyn:

Again the irony is Devout Catholics represent Holiness and Love ( in a nutshell), and Devout Muslims practice evil.

Well you see, here is the real dilemma. Conduct rule #7:Non-Catholics are welcome to participate but must be respectful of the faith of the Catholics participating on the board. You see, you can say what ever you want about my faith, regardless of how baseless and dishonest it is, but if I call you on your egotistical, sweeping remark about how holy and wonderful Catholics are, then that would be considered a breaking of rule 7, which is ironic sense it puts a damper on the common claim of loving freedom and being able to express yourself, which is nothing more than good old fashion Christian hypocrisy. I tell you what, if you would like to explore that claim, I know of a forum and I moderate, and I do not believe in censorship unless it is right out vulgar, and you can have the freedom to say what ever you want. Unless you are willing to move to another forum to go into that claim, I will only say that it is a highly egotistical, and purely missionary, rhetorical nonsensical claim that is refuted by history.
krystin:

THis is true, and if you don’t accept it your soul is in jeapordy, because you don’t clain to have invincible ignorance which is a way to heaven for those who havenever been exposed to the Catholic Faith. Your burden is now greater, just being on this discussion group, and have studied the Catholic Faith. You can say all you want about what I have just wrote, but in the end, it will not hurt me, because I have done my duty and tried to help you see.
By the way, my boyfriend has left the Mulsim Faith because he followed God’s will, and really, that is what it is all about.

The only thing true is that we can never debate it. Your “two faced” rule prevents me from having any real debate, and your inability to debate your material will never allow your statement to be anymore than your opinion. You will continue to make up excuses to maintain the thread on a superficial level. That’s ok, as long as you are content. By the way, I rejected your theology and followed Gd’s will and am now Muslim. A young man came to me to learn about Islam a few months ago, he was planning to go into the Eastern Orthodox Seminary to be a priest (he was of Greek ancestory and even read his NT in Greek). He embraced Islam two months later. I have lead many Christians into Islam, despite your best efforts to obfuscate, distort, and slander good people. In the end, the truth is self evident, and as long as you need gimmicks to promote your faith, you should ask why your faith is not self evident.
krystin:

I neve said intellectual discourse was wasteful, just wastful with someone like you, who lack humility, as I explained above. You should really read what I wrote again, and hear my words----with humility.

Humility is not a pre-requisite for a discourse. This is more “missionary language” that means, “it is ok that it makes no sense, just believe it”. Humility is not something that can be measured, and I am puzzled at how you are able to deduce humility and proclaim yourself as holy and wonderful. That is not humility, that is the sign of someone who thinks too highly of themselves. As long as you require humility to have a discourse (something I feel you are hidning behind to excuse yourself from a discourse), then you should begin an inquisition on the forum to oust the false Christians here.
peace and good luck

 

[Abd_al-Haqq]

MVH:

The topic of the thread is whether Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance – not about your opinions on how the doctrine on the Trinity was developed. You should start another thread if you really want to discuss the Trinity.

The problem is that no one really wants to stay on topic, and so I simply go with the flow. Perhaps you can give adive to your brethren about staying on topic, and dealing with topic directly. That would be helpful.
MVP:

Regarding tolerance, I think it is one thing to say that many Islamic nations are tolerant of other religious groups simply because these groups were not exterminated in your lands.

yea??? I think you were going to add to that?

MVH:

However, don’t you find this disingenuous when it is clear that Saudi Arabia and Indonesia, among other places, forbid any public display of Christian items, forbids any place of worship, and reserves the right to randomly search houses where Christians are trying to worship in private? Also, would be appreciated if you can discuss the situation of Islam today – not 500 or 1000 years ago.

No, not disingenuous. We are talking about Islam, not a whether it is in a time period that suits you. I am giving you facts about Islam. I am sorry, what was the name of the ancient mosque in Europe? Do not allow your government’s stance on “indifference” to religion be of any bolstering of your faith. When your faith has been incharge, there has been anything but tolerance. You want to use attitudes of corrupt governments, many of which were propped up by western governments, yet when you are shown Islalmic teachings and these teachings implemented, you want to complain about the calender.

 

[Shadowcry]

I agree

 

[cute2904]

Abd al-Haqq:

Instead of this unending, silly charades, I beg you to come out and make your point. So please, what is it that you wish to say.

Oh gimme a break! You to quoque muslim. ‘you too’ fallacy. despite explaning whats your brothers are doing, you wish me to explain OT? . give me some good explanations WHY, yes WHY we should stop our religion practice (read original threat) then I will try to explain OT to you ok?!

 

[cute2904]

Abd al-Haqq:

The problem is that no one really wants to stay on topic, and so I simply go with the flow. Perhaps you can give adive to your brethren about staying on topic, and dealing with topic directly. That would be helpful.

OK. from now on stay on the path.

No, not disingenuous. We are talking about Islam, not a whether it is in a time period that suits you. I am giving you facts about Islam.

Well the fact already here on the original threat.

I am sorry, what was the name of the ancient mosque in Europe? Do not allow your government’s stance on “indifference” to religion be of any bolstering of your faith. When your faith has been incharge, there has been anything but tolerance. You want to use attitudes of corrupt governments, many of which were propped up by western governments, yet when you are shown Islalmic teachings and these teachings implemented, you want to complain about the calender.

Am I hearing about corrupt governments around here? hmm I like it.

 

[Joe_Monahan]

Abd al-Haqq:

Well you see, here is the real dilemma. Conduct rule #7:Non-Catholics are welcome to participate but must be respectful of the faith of the Catholics participating on the board. You see, you can say what ever you want about my faith, regardless of how baseless and dishonest it is, but if I call you on your egotistical, sweeping remark about how holy and wonderful Catholics are, then that would be considered a breaking of rule 7, which is ironic sense it puts a damper on the common claim of loving freedom and being able to express yourself, which is nothing more than good old fashion Christian hypocrisy.

The only thing true is that we can never debate it. Your “two faced” rule prevents me from having any real debate

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