Islam is a religion of peace and is tolerant of other religions?

[Abd_al-Haqq]

exoflare:

We’re held to a higher standard in this day because the fullness of truth has already been revealed to us.

Rhetorical nonsense. Your standards do not even come close to the 613 mizvah that were required by the Torah, in my opinion, the gentiles took the easy way out and follow the latest fads, or what is referred to in the letters as “the law is on your heart”, but that is simply pie in the sky and was a complete failure in terms of running a society. Refer to your Torah to see just how high standards are for someone who still follows it.

Who gave the “incomplete” truth, as you so noted, to Moses? I will answer, in your doctrine it was Jesus. So was Moses wrong in granting 37,000 virgins to his men as a victory prize and celibration? Why did Jesus feel this was a good thing? Proof: Numbers 31:1-54
Reasonable Question: Why would Jesus give the complete truth to pork eating pagan Gentiles in Greece and Rome but not Moses? Seriously.

People in the OT were spiritually immature and had not yet received the full realization of good vs. evil, much less the grace required to live in a way that God would truly consider good.

Rhetorcal nonsense. So the pagan Romans and Greeks were spirtually " of age"? You cannot possibly believe that, unless you are unread about the people who embraced Paul.

The bottom line, your reply would have me believe that Jesus gave one of the greatest Prophets who ever lived, Moses, an incomplete truth, because Moses was not good enough, nor were the Israelites, and they all lived under an incomplete truth for centuries, until Paul revealed the true message of Jesus? COme now, that is simply absurd.

If you want to talk about certain verses, then post them in another thread instead of making blanket statements without backing them up.

The verses are the evidence to back and prove an assertion. They should be posted here, so you will not complain about lack of evidence.

Jesus kills babies:
Deut.

2:33 And the LORD our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people.
2:34 And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain:

3:5 All these cities were fenced with high walls, gates, and bars; beside unwalled towns a great many.
3:6 And we utterly destroyed them, as we did unto Sihon king of Heshbon, utterly destroying the men, women, and children, of every city.

Jesus teaches that we should abandon the sick to die alone:
Numbers
5:2 Command the children of Israel, that they put out of the camp every leper, and every one that hath an issue, and whosoever is defiled by the dead:
5:3 Both male and female shall ye put out, without the camp shall ye put them; that they defile not their camps, in the midst whereof I dwell.

Peace

 

[exoflare]

Abd al-Haqq:

Rhetorical nonsense. Your standards do not even come close to the 613 mizvah that were required by the Torah, in my opinion, the gentiles took the easy way out and follow the latest fads, or what is referred to in the letters as “the law is on your heart”, but that is simply pie in the sky and was a complete failure in terms of running a society. Refer to your Torah to see just how high standards are for someone who still follows it.

Who gave the “incomplete” truth, as you so noted, to Moses? I will answer, in your doctrine it was Jesus. So was Moses wrong in granting 37,000 virgins to his men as a victory prize and celibration? Why did Jesus feel this was a good thing? Proof: Numbers 31:1-54
Reasonable Question: Why would Jesus give the complete truth to pork eating pagan Gentiles in Greece and Rome but not Moses? Seriously.

Blablahblah…

Anyway, Moses or whoever else in those times not having the complete truth available to them isn’t a bad reflection on the people themselves. Why can’t you get that through your head? The righteous people of back then did the best they could with what was given to them just as we are expected to. To whom much is given, much is also expected. But if you’d read the whole Bible instead of certain snippets taken out of context as propaganda you’d know that already.

 

[exoflare]

Abd,

Why should I give you answers to this stuff when you’ve already made up your mind that you just want to start arguments? Your rebuttals just a bunch of insults and the typical Islamic fabrications on Paul, Gentiles, etc.

First you imply that eating pork is intrinsically evil. It’s not. It’s a law for ceremonial “cleanliness” that has served its purpose and is no longer needed. Who is honestly born with the awareness in their conscience (yes, the law IS written on your heart!) that certain animals are okay to eat and others not, as if it were tantamount to theft or murder?? The joke is people like you and the Pharisees of Jesus’ day consider trivial things like this the defining mark of good vs. evil.

Paul was not the one who “revealed” Christianity except in your own little world of conspiracy theories. Of course, you have to refer to the ones who followed what he taught as pagans too, since that fulfills your goal of making everyone associated with the eeevil Paul look as bad as possible. Even if you do already know that they had to give up being pagans in order to follow what he taught them, that doesn’t go along with the vast hate-complex of Paul that most Muslims seem to have, so it’s just not worth mentioning.

In conclusion, get over yourself.

 

[Abd_al-Haqq]

exoflare:

Blablahblah…

Anyway, Moses or whoever else in those times not having the complete truth available to them isn’t a bad reflection on the people themselves. Why can’t you get that through your head?

No, it only reflects poorly on your Gd if you stick with your story.

The righteous people of back then did the best they could with what was given to them just as we are expected to. To whom much is given, much is also expected. But if you’d read the whole Bible instead of certain snippets taken out of context as propaganda you’d know that already.

So Jesus short changed Moses and saved the best for pagan Gentiles? Are you really going to stick with this story or will you give this up now that you see the absurd outcome?

As far as knowing the bible, although not a scholar, I am more fluent with it than the majority of Christians, which is why I know where to turn to give you your “snippets”, along with commentary.
Peace

 

[cute2904]

Abd al-Haqq:

I believe he was a prophet.

So you believe what Jesus had done in the past.

 

[timur]

Im a muslim but i love jesus pbuh and the last propht muhamed pbuh equaly ,but cristians not knowing what to do ,did what jews did.made their scriptures for them and as their own writing fell in in love in it.On the judgment day their hands will turn black for prescribing God things which doesnt belong to.sorry but you dont pray to God as you shoud becose it is easyer for you to ask a priest for forgivness. “Allah, there is no god save Him, The Living, The Eternal. Neither slumber nor sleep overtake Him. Unto Him belongs whatsoever is in the heavens and the earth. Who is he who intercedes with Him except by His permission? He knows that which is before them and that which is behind them, while they encompass nothing of His Knowledge except what He wills. His seat (kursi) contains the heavens and the earth, and He is never weary of preserving them. He is The Sublime, The Great.” (al-Baqarah 2/255)
The Creator must be of a different nature from the things created because if he is of the same nature as they are, he will be temporal and will therefore need a maker. It follows that nothing is like Him. If the maker is not temporal, then he must be eternal. But if he is eternal, he cannot be caused, and if nothing outside him causes him to continue to exist, which means that he must be self-sufficient. And if the does not depend on anything for the continuance of his own existence, then this existence can have no end. The Creator is therefore eternal and everlasting: “He is the First and the Last.”

 

[kristyn]

Abd al-Haqq":

And yet you revel pseudo-intellectual works that give you great security in your faith from CS Lewis (joke, I could not resist that, do not take it serious).
Seriously, I searched your faith for Gd, for over a year I even attended mass and studied with a priest, but I did it out of love for Gd, not for a relationship with another person, and with my heart and mind. "

I have had MANY intellectual discussions with my boyfriend, of course you miss the point because you don’t know how to see my point. I can have an intellectual discussion with you anytime, but really, it is pointless. What I am saying is conversions seldom come FROM intellectual thought, they come from God’s grace, thru witness and HUMILITY (something, sadly, you lack).

"Possibly because he was ingorant about his faith. That is usually the major reason that a Muslim does leave their faith. (in fact, this is the reason for some converts of all faiths, even when a Catholic is pressured by a loved one to enter into a hokey, fly by night evangelical center). "

 Again, you bring up intellectual knowledge, which ironically most Mulsims do not have (this, we agree), and those are the ones that are peaceful.  You see, ( and yes I am making a blanket stament, but I do have knowledge to back it up), the ones who DO know the Faith the way is was intended by your Prophet are those, who for the most part, are not found in our Western Culture, they are represented by Osama, and the rest.  Again the irony is Devout Catholics represent Holiness and Love ( in a nutshell), and Devout Muslims practice evil.  THis is true, and if you don't accept it your soul is in jeapordy, because you don't clain to have invincible ignorance which is a way to heaven for those who havenever  been exposed to the Catholic Faith.  Your burden is now greater, just being on this discussion group, and have studied the Catholic Faith.  You can say all you want about what I have just wrote, but in the end, it will not hurt me, because I have done my duty and tried to help you see.  
        By the way, my boyfriend has left the Mulsim Faith because he followed God's will,  and really, that is what it is all about.

“Ah! As I predicted. He left upon the bases of ignorance. If you feel intellectual discourse and critique is wasteful, then your method to find truth is flawed, truly flawed.
Be not affraid, be affirmed. Truly if you have the truth, you should not worry about a serious discourse.”

       I neve said intellectual discourse was wasteful, just wastful with someone like you, who lack humility, as I explained above.  You should really read what I wrote again, and hear my words----with humility.

Look, I can give you countless stories of people leaving your faith and converting to Islam. Will that convince you of the truth of Islam? Will that cause you to ponder? No. Absolutely not. So understand, a warm, touchy feely story about a convert adds little in way of helping someone find the validity of a religion. Stories of Jews becoming Christian, or Muslim, or Muslim becoming Hindu, or Christain becoming Muslim abound. I am sure for you your experience was real and convincing, just realize that these stories abound in all faiths.
I too will pray that we are all guided, and that we are all given the mercy of love and peace.

 

[Edris]

Kristyn,
You have to practice more quoting, but i suggest you do that in Microsoft Word instead of this thread. :rolleyes:

 

[cute2904]

Edris:

Kristyn,

You have to practice more quoting,  but i suggest you do that in Microsoft Word instead of this thread.  :rolleyes:

This is Kristin’s style . Does it bother you?

 

[timur]

[quote=kristyn]
[/quote]

[/INDENT]

By the way, my boyfriend has left the Mulsim Faith because he followed God’s will, and really, that is what it is all about.

i dont know for your boy but my ex girl now my wife she embreced islam and last week there ware another 4 cristians which embraced islam ,amoung them 2 girls.by the way it is upon u to choose the rigt path .The time is running for all of us and death is clousing up.so and the Judgment day .are u sure you have the right beliving??? i think your so called LOVE is God to your feelings but there shouldnt been feelings for JUSTICE but you forget this.We need to heal this brokenness and it can only come by bringing justice to the world. There cannot be any peace without justice and there cannot be any justice without reforming our thinking, our behaviour and our policies. It is strange that there is so much talk today about seeking safety and security, but very little about how to bring justice to those who are suffering under deep oppression and occupation. The world cannot be safe unless it becomes more just and fair world.
there is a lot of injustice in our world. There is social injustice, economic injustice and political injustice. There are problems of racism, religious prejudices and propaganda. The gap between the haves and have-nots is increasing. There are problems caused by poverty, hunger, malnutrition, death of children and diseases. There are problems caused by the denial of human rights, basic freedoms, occupation of lands, terrorism, wars, and weapons of mass destruction. We are living in a broken world. The hearts are broken, families are broken, relations are broken, homes are broken, cities and towns are broken.
Justice thus means to maintain the balance and to give every one and every thing its proper due. It means living one’s own life in a balanced way maintaining the balance between the needs of the body, mind and soul. It also means recognizing:

1. Huquq Allah – rights of God,
2. Huquq Al-Ibad – rights of human beings, and
3. Huquq Al-Ashya – rights of things.

Establishing justice was the main mission of the Prophets of Allah. Muslims are urged in the Quran to live with justice and to carry on this prophetic mission in the world. In many places in the Quran Allah reminded the Believers and urged them to uphold justice for all people and under all circumstances.
Allah says in the Quran:
“We have sent our messengers with veritable proof, and with them We have sent the Book and the criterion, so that men might establish justice, and We have sent down iron, with its mighty strength and many benefits for mankind, so that God may know those who will support Him and His messengers, without ever seeing Him or them. God is Powerful, Almighty.”

 

[cute2904]

i dont know for your boy but my ex girl now my wife she embreced islam and last week there ware another 4 cristians which embraced islam ,amoung them 2 girls.by the way it is upon u to choose the rigt path .The time is running for all of us and death is clousing up.so and the Judgment day .are u sure you have the right beliving???

We have the right beliefs. As much as you think you have the right beliefs in Islam.

i think your so called LOVE is God to your feelings but there shouldnt been feelings for JUSTICE but you forget this.We need to heal this brokenness and it can only come by bringing justice to the world.

Justice? what justice? Where’s the justice when becoming a dhimmi? pay tax jizya? is that what you call justice? devided people into muslim and non muslim, muslim and infidel, muslim and kaffirs… you call it justice? If you cannot bring any justice to us, do not speak about justice in the first place.

There cannot be any peace without justice and there cannot be any justice without reforming our thinking, our behaviour and our policies.

ABSOLUTELY! Thats why you have to reform your thinking.

It is strange that there is so much talk today about seeking safety and security, but very little about how to bring justice to those who are suffering under deep oppression and occupation. The world cannot be safe unless it becomes more just and fair world.

very true… where’s the justice for these people when they were practicing their religion and you came with blade and threatening these poor people to stop what they are doing.

there is a lot of injustice in our world. There is social injustice, economic injustice and political injustice.
There are problems of racism, religious prejudices and propaganda. The gap between the haves and have-nots is increasing. There are problems caused by poverty, hunger, malnutrition, death of children and diseases.

Aha. maybe we can take a look at sudan for example and other parts in africa, indonesia, bangladesh, india, pakistan, kashmir, beslan, saudi arabia, palestine, etc

There are problems caused by the denial of human rights, basic freedoms, occupation of lands, terrorism, wars, and weapons of mass destruction.

This is exactly what we are afraid of.

We are living in a broken world. The hearts are broken, families are broken, relations are broken, homes are broken, cities and towns are broken.

Our love and compassion will heal them all. Violance will not settle everything. Killing innocent people will not over everything.

Justice thus means to maintain the balance and to give every one and every thing its proper due. It means living one’s own life in a balanced way maintaining the balance between the needs of the body, mind and soul.

Perfect! But so far you sound good on paper only not in action.

It also means recognizing:

1. Huquq Allah – rights of God,
2. Huquq Al-Ibad – rights of human beings, and
3. Huquq Al-Ashya – rights of things.

God have rights according to human(we) definition? what are they?

Establishing justice was the main mission of the Prophets of Allah. Muslims are urged in the Quran to live with justice and to carry on this prophetic mission in the world. In many places in the Quran Allah reminded the Believers and urged them to uphold justice for all people and under all circumstances.

Well it only applies to Muslims and Believers so far. You dont speak for the non believers. What kind of justice you are talking about here? Dont you shame for what happened in the world today?

Allah says in the Quran:
“We have sent our messengers with veritable proof, and with them We have sent the Book and the criterion, so that men might establish justice, and We have sent down iron, with its mighty strength and many benefits for mankind, so that God may know those who will support Him and His messengers, without ever seeing Him or them. God is Powerful, Almighty.”

Should I believe to a god that asking you to slay the jews and christians? curse the jews into apes and pigs? a messenger who marrying a 9 year old little girl? rape the slave captives? slit a jewish woman’s throat when she is sleeping and breastfeeding her baby just because she said something negative about the prophet? This is too much for me. I found Jesus the Loving and Compassionate God. And I feel peace in Him.

 

[timur]

cute2904:

We have the right beliefs. As much as you think you have the right beliefs in Islam.
You are ignorant thats why you object the ruling of God.
Justice? what justice? Where’s the justice when becoming a dhimmi? pay tax jizya? is that what you call justice? devided people into muslim and non muslim, muslim and infidel, muslim and kaffirs… you call it justice? If you cannot bring any justice to us, do not speak about justice in the first place.
Muslim mean -man submited to God will-From the time of Adam throgh abraham to jesus and finaly muhammed.You are not the one who choose .God has chose muslims to lead the World.HE gave them the BOOK.But we as people like all of you havent truly accepted all which is written in it.Yes jizija was paying taxes but it was the only tax and the muslims at that time had more money to pay than the people of the book.
Aha. maybe we can take a look at sudan for example and other parts in africa, indonesia, bangladesh, india, pakistan, kashmir, beslan, saudi arabia, palestine, etc
According to Islam, humansuperiority has nothing to do with race. No matter from what race people maybe, they are still people. Each one was created and placed in the world byGod. The Koran reveals this truth thus: Mankind! We created you from a male and female, and madeyou into peoples and tribes so that you might come to know each other. Thenoblest among you in God’s sight is that one of you who best performs hisduty. God is All-Knowing, All-Aware. (The Koran, 49:13)The above verse is perfectly clear. No matterby what criteria human beings are judged in this world, in God’s eyes’superiority’ consists of closeness to Him, and fear of Him.An individual or group which sees one race as’superior,’ or tries to show it to be so, is engaging in self-deception.Everyone will have to appear before God at the Day of Reckoning, and will becalled to account alone. Those attributes that he perceived as conferring’superiority’ in this world will be of no use to him then.

Our love and compassion will heal them all. Violance will not settle everything. Killing innocent people will not over everything.

Allah hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, and on their eyes is a veil; great is the penalty they (incur).

In their hearts is a disease; and Allah has increased their disease: And grievous is the penalty they (incur), because they are false (to themselves).
When it is said to them: “Make not mischief on the earth,” they say: "Why, we only Want to make PEACE
Of a surety, they are the ones who make mischief, but they realise (it) not.

God have rights according to human(we) definition? what are they?
Rights which you abondened from all the humenkind.Like u cristians allowed secularist rule your countris and pointed ateist for your guidance so u brought it over to muslims to.
Well it only applies to Muslims and Believers so far. You dont speak for the non believers. What kind of justice you are talking about here? Dont you shame for what happened in the world today?
Those who break Allah’s Covenant after it is ratified, and who sunder what Allah Has ordered to be joined, and do mischief on earth: These cause loss (only) to themselves.
How can ye reject the faith in Allah.— seeing that ye were without life, and He gave you life; then will He cause you to die, and will again bring you to life; and again to Him will ye return.
It is He Who hath created for you all things that are on earth; Moreover His design comprehended the heavens, for He gave order and perfection to the seven firmaments; and of all things He hath perfect knowledge
a messenger who marrying a 9 year old little girl? rape the slave captives?
The Prophet married Aisha primarily for three reasons:
To reinforce the friendly relations already existing with Abu Bakr (his closest companion).
To educate and train Aisha so she may serve the purposes of Islam.
To teach her to utilize her capabilities for the sake of Islam.
Her Marriage with the prophet was a Wahi (Divine Revelation). She, herself relates from the Prophet, ‘He said, “I saw you in dreams three times. The angel brought you to me and you were clad in white silk. He (the angel) said that it was your consort and he (angel) showed me by opening your face. You are just like that…” Sahih Muslim, Vol.2, p.285.

Aisha ® was born after her parents had embraced Islam. Therefore, she was free from the defilement of polytheism right from her birth.

In her youth, already known for her striking beauty and her formidable memory, she came under the loving care and attention of the Prophet himself. As his wife and close companion she acquired from him knowledge and insight such as no woman has ever acquired.
all the other quotes and charges are without any evidence in the Quran and Sunah

 

[timur]

Due to its structural tolerance vis-à-vis ‘peoples of the book’, the Muslim world has always been multireligious. Islam expanded into formerly Christian territories-the Near East, North Africa, Spain, Byzantium, the Balkans-without eliminating the Christian communities. Nowhere is this more evident than in Cairo, Damascus, and Istanbul, and in countries like Greece and Serbia. This situation was facilitated by the fact that the Qur’ân contains what may be called an ‘Islamic Christology’. Coexistence with the large Jewish populations within the Muslim empire-aside from the Near East in Muslim Spain, and subsequently in North Africa and the Ottoman Empire-was facilitated, in turn, by the extraordinary focus of the Qur’ân on Jewish prophets in general and Moses in particular. On this basis, Islamic jurisprudence developed the world’s first liberal law called al-siyar for the status of religious minorities (al-dhimmi). In the Western world, developments were entirely different. Here, religious intolerance became endemic, even between Christian churches; many sects were outlawed (as during the first Ecumenical Council in Nicaea, in 325), massacred (e.g., the Donatists in North Africa in the 5th century and the Albigenses and Cathari in the thirteenth century), subdued as victims of a ‘crusade’ (Constantinople in 1205), or deserted (like Orthodox East Rome during the siege by Sultan Fatih in 1453). In Germany, a war lasting thirty years between Protestant and Catholic princes decimated the population (1618-1648).

Under these circumstances and fuelled by the Church dictum extra ecclesia nullum salus (no salvation outside the church), even minimal tolerance of Muslims could not be expected. The expulsion of both Muslims and Jews from Spain in the sixteenth century-the first case of ‘ethnic cleansing’ in modern history-made Europe virtually ‘Muslim-free.’ There was interaction between the two camps-trade, scientific penetration, diplomatic missions-but no living Muslim presence in the Occident until the twentieth century.[6]

With this historical perspective in light, it was deemed vital that concepts of distinction between safe and unsafe, Islamic and non-Islamic be pertained. Based on the universality of the Islamic belief, that Muhammad(P) was sent to the whole World:

“We sent thee not, but as a Mercy for all creatures.”

 

[timur]

oday’s Classification

Today, majority of Islamic scholars agree upon a classification into three. Shaikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi says, on Al-Shari’ah Wal-Hayah (Islamic Law and Life), Al-Jazeera Channel, dated Tuesday February 6th 2001, these three categories are:

Dar Al-Islam: The abode of Islam, the Muslim nation.
Dar Al-Harb: The abode of war, those that have declared war against the Muslim nation.
Dar Al-‘Ahd: The abode of covenant, the countries that have diplomatic agreements and covenants with the Muslim nation.[5]
The concept of Dar Al-‘Ahd (Abode of Covenant) is obtained from the judicial rulings of manslaughter, as outlined in the Quran:

“Never should a believer kill a believer; but (If it so happens) by mistake, (Compensation is due): If one (so) kills a believer, it is ordained that he should free a believing slave, and pay compensation to the deceased’s family, unless they remit it freely. If the deceased belonged to a people at war with you, and he was a believer, the freeing of a believing slave (Is enough). If he belonged to a people with whom ye have treaty of Mutual alliance, compensation should be paid to his family, and a believing slave be freed. For those who find this beyond their means, (is prescribed) a fast for two months running: by way of repentance to God: for God hath all knowledge and all wisdom.”

– 3. Al-Nisa’: 92 (Abdullah Yusuf Ali).

The indication is in the words “…a people with whom ye have treaty of Mutual alliance…” In fact, God commands us to ordain to the covenant that was agreed upon with the disbelievers:

“(But the treaties are) not dissolved with those Pagans with whom ye have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided any one against you. So fulfil your engagements with them to the end of their term: for God loveth the righteous.”

 

[timur]

[60:1] O ye who believe! Take not my enemies and yours as friends (or protectors),- offering them (your) love, even though they have rejected the Truth that has come to you, and have (on the contrary) driven out the Prophet and yourselves (from your homes), (simply) because ye believe in God your Lord! …”

“[60:8] God forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for God loveth those who are just.

[60:9] God only forbids you, with regard to those who fight you for (your) Faith, and drive you out of your homes, and support (others) in driving you out, from turning to them (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to them (in these circumstances), that do wrong.”

– 60. Al–Mumtahina: 8, 9 (Abdullah Yusuf Ali).

Conclusion

In conclusion, it is fair to say that the door of Ijtihad (religious endeavour) is always open. The Islamic decrees that are introduced through Fiqh (Islamic jurisprudence) into the Shari’ah (Islamic law) are reflective of the social, economic, and environmental circumstances of the time. These circumstances change as time continuously elapses. Corresponding to the change, the Shari’ah (Islamic law) is updated as new decrees are introduced with the appearance of newer issues. The key condition is compliance with the Qur’ân and Sunnah (tradition of the Holy Prophet(P)). In this light, the former concept of classification is updated to include Dar Al-‘Ahd (Abode of covenant) to include the other nations that hold covenants and diplomatic agreements with Dar Al-Islam (Abode of Islam).

And only God knows best.

 

[kristyn]

Hey moderator, where are the admonishments for the attacks from the Muslims on this site? you know, like saying we Catholics are ignorant, and other inflammatory comments? I see a threat in some of these comments, do you?

 

[Lance]

This is an excerpt from Daniel Pipes news letter:

One would think by now that the “Islam = peace” nonsense would not need correcting so, for the record:

Most Arabic words are based on a trilateral root system, such as k-t-b or s-l-m. The words formed from these roots often have a connection to one another (kataba is to read, kitāb is a book, maktaba is a library, and so on), but not always (a katība is a squadron of soldiers). In other words, roots have a core meaning but also include unrelated words.

In the case of s-l-m, salām means peace and salāma means safety. But the root also has many meanings unconnected to this core, such as salam (a variety of acacia) sullam (ladder), sulāmā (digital bone in the hand or foot), sulaymāni (mercury chloride), aslama (to betray) … and islām (submission).

There is no connection in meaning between salām and islām, peace and submission. These are two distinct words with unrelated meetings. In brief, “Islam = submission.”

Not only is it common for the same root to mean roughly the opposite, as in the case of peace and submission, but Arabic words famously have Janus-like features, meaning themselves and their opposite. “Arabists amuse non-initiates with the exaggeration that every Arabic word has four meanings – a basic one, its opposite, one related to sex, and a final one referring to camels.”

 

[Abd_al-Haqq]

exoflare:

Abd,

Why should I give you answers to this stuff when you’ve already made up your mind that you just want to start arguments? Your rebuttals just a bunch of insults and the typical Islamic fabrications on Paul, Gentiles, etc.

1. You have given replies, none of which make any sense if one follows them through to their sad conlcusions. If you truly had a solid reply, you would already have given it. Understand, I am not insulting the bible, I am simply making a point.
2. I have not given a single insult. I have not given a single fabrication. Now you are are slandering. Please show me a single fabrication and if you are right I will admit mistake?

First you imply that eating pork is intrinsically evil. It’s not. It’s a law for ceremonial “cleanliness” that has served its purpose and is no longer needed.

No, the Torah calls it “unclean”. It really is that straight forward. It is in your bible.

Who is honestly born with the awareness in their conscience (yes, the law IS written on your heart!) that certain animals are okay to eat and others not, as if it were tantamount to theft or murder??

Awareness is not relevant. What is relevant is that eating swine is unclean and Gd said this in your bible. My point was to show how absurd it is if one claims that a half truth was granted to the people of Moses, yet the whole truth was given to a people who were unclean. The fact a people can become clean justifies my reply.

The joke is people like you and the Pharisees of Jesus’ day consider trivial things like this the defining mark of good vs. evil.

Personally, I think the the real joke, or spiritual tragedy, is that people remained to be unclean and only accept what is convenient. The rejection of the Pharisees is something up for debate. If someone had asked the author of Matthew, and Paul, side by side, about this very issue, a conflict would have broekn out. Matthew 23:1-3 …“The Scribes and the Pharisees sit in th Moses’s seat: therefore all that they tell you , do and observe…”

WHich is in conflict with Paul’s message that you only need to feel good and everything is “ok”. Pie in the sky. So it is not just myself, or Muslims who disagree with Paul and look upon him with suspicion, but also Jewish scholars, and academic scholars, and the reason is quite clear: evidence suggests his views were in the minority, and his views became the norm in the very sect that appealed to gentiles.

Paul was not the one who “revealed” Christianity except in your own little world of conspiracy theories.

Actually, as far as the trinitarian Christianity that you have come to follow, you owe your thanks to Paul, a man who never met Jesus, and who knew nothing about him. A man who gave an interpretation based upon a vision, who had not claim to prophethood, and had not obvious authority to make the changes he did. He was sent off to the gentiles because his interpretation was offensive to those who actually had known Jesus. Pointing out the problems with Paul is not a conspiracy theory, which requires several men, not one.

Of course, you have to refer to the ones who followed what he taught as pagans too, since that fulfills your goal of making everyone associated with the eeevil Paul look as bad as possible.

I never said he was evil, misguided, and completely insane, yes. But evil, no.

Even if you do already know that they had to give up being pagans in order to follow what he taught them, that doesn’t go along with the vast hate-complex of Paul that most Muslims seem to have, so it’s just not worth mentioning.

In conclusion, get over yourself.

Actually, they did not give up their pagan ways, they incorporated them into the belief system which you have inherited. Andnow back to the topic, your Gd condones violence worse than what is found in the Quran, will denounce your Gd as you do the Quran now?

 

[Abd_al-Haqq]

cute2904:

So you believe what Jesus had done in the past.

You have once again julted an appropriate quote…
“Judge a person by their questions, rather than their answers.”-Voltaire

Of course if I believe someone lived, and existed on this earth, then I would believe that they also had “actions” that accompanied their time on earth. Instead of this unending, silly charades, I beg you to come out and make your point. So please, what is it that you wish to say.

 

[r.gonzales]

Lance:

This is an excerpt from Daniel Pipes news letter:

simply being able to read arabic doesn’t necessitate that you understand the language well or know the exact meanings of words and their relationships with the roots they’re derived from.

from my post here: forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=941338&postcount=47

the root word they both are derived from is the word salama, which means to make safe. and since the word islam is derived from it, it shares some of it’s meaning. islam is the peaceful submission of one’s soul to Allah’s religion, which is to single Him out in all forms of worship and divinity, single Him out in lordship and to single Him out with respect to His perfect names and attributes, and to obey the laws and legislations that He sent His final prophet and messenger with. it doesn’t merely mean “submission”, it carries the connotation that this submission and resignation is for Allah and to Allah. simple submission and surrender in arabic is “istislaam”. and you can confirm this by checking the hans wehr arabic-english dictionary.

it would aid pipes’ understanding of the word islam if he referred to arabic lexicons such as an-nihaayah fee ghareeb al-hadeeth and lisaan al-'arab.