Islam is a religion of peace and is tolerant of other religions?

[JOHNYJ]

Its always a so called minority of muslims that commit terrorism on their none muslim neighbors.
First,there is no concensus as to what Islam taches on certain subjects.Murdering children is wrong say muslims,unless their jewish children in Israel.
How many Islamic states are what a reasonable person would consider tolerant, 2 maybe.
The proof of the pudding is reciprocation.
How many Islamic states would like their people in christian nations. Treated the way they treat christians in their countries ?

 

[Abd_al-Haqq]

Greetings.
Robert Spencer is an intellectually bankrupt “Islamaphobe”, along with Daniel Pipes, Craig Winn and the rest of the neo-con gang who have made themselves rich pandering to the ignorances of the religous right of America. I would be more than happy to debate any argument you would like to bring forth founded on the “smear” material of Robert Spencer (I notice you like to promote his books, perhaps you could present and argument?).
(note: I do not do pastes, links, or lists)
With your rational, it would be correct to learn about the Catholic Church from Orthodox Jewish historical and theological writings?
There must be a note of intellectual cowardice in anyone who suggests that one should learn about a group from that group’s anti-thesis. If one is unable to discern information about a group from the group’s own writings and literature, without regurgitating material from a self-proclaimed expert, then one’s view should be held in deep question and branded suspect.
Al Masetti:

Here’s an interesting web site.

Read the books by Robert Spencer.

jihadwatch.org/

 

[Abd_al-Haqq]

cute2904:

What if they do it in the name of God?

Perhaps you might ask Jesus that. The Torah is marked with incidents where Gd commands the Hebrews to slaughter women and children, leave the sick to die in the desert, to kill in the name of racism, etc, etc (as long as you hold that Jesus is co-equal and coeternal). Understand, it is not difficult to twist facts in order to demonize a group. Reagen perpetuated “terrorism” through the bolserting of regimes who used terrorism to control its people as a way to “contain communism” at all means, in the name of Gd and country. So how did that Christian allow such a foriegn policy to thrive in the name of Gd? Terrorism is an art that was mastered during the cold war by men who were Christian, and the art trickled itself down to everyone else. Even Jews used bombs to manipulate politics pre modern Israel. How did they kill in the name of Gd? I don’t know. I am sure that the west enjoys devling into “special pleading” when it comes to demonizing. And I am not sure how morally bankrupt forgien policy of the cold war presidents of the US rubbed off on core Christian teachings, unless I use your rational and then force a “sweeping generalization”. I hope you see how easy it is to twist facts to fit a prejudice?

 

[Abd_al-Haqq]

JOHNYJ:

Its always a so called minority of muslims that commit terrorism on their none muslim neighbors.

Terrorism is an element that entered into Islam in the 20th century (give or take 60-70 years), when Islamic thinkers (not scholars) began attaching 20th century politcal theories to their religous movements. The Al Qaida leaders are direct rebels of the group that Al Qaidah evlolved from: Islamic Brotherhood. After IB rejcted the use of violence and after the group decided to de-radicalize, members formed splinter gorups like al-qaida. Their common ground is that they all are a 20th century movement based upon 20th century political ideals fused with Islamic interpretation. So yes, it is a monority who actually subscribe to beliefs that are foreign to traditional, orthodox Islam.

First,there is no concensus as to what Islam taches on certain subjects.

I have the four major works on fiqh (law) on my shelf, there are many “concensuses”, and the few points that are not are minor details.

Murdering children is wrong say muslims,unless their jewish children in Israel.

Show me a single work from a traditonal scholar (which represents the mainstream thought of “orthodox Islam”) who says that it is OK to blow up innocent children? Hamas and Islamic Jihad are among the splinter groups who have fused 20th cenutry, western poltical theories into their movements. Some people refuse to make change starting with themsleves, and feel that they should try and change everyone else first (that is western politcal thought). Sufis of old use to say that we should be harsher on ourselves than we are on others. While we are on the kick of killing children, perhaps you can go on record to justify the killing and unethical treatment of innocent women, children, and men at the hands of Israelis? Innocent Christian Arabs are among the victims. Your Christian brethren.

How many Islamic states are what a reasonable person would consider tolerant, 2 maybe.

There is not a single “Islamic” system in place in the world. The countries that the west enjoys ragging on so much have governments that are a direct result of western foreign policy. The results of western “architecture”. As far as what you consider “tolerant”, that is ambiguous. Some consider the US as intollerant for opposing gay marriages and usage of capital punishment.

The proof of the pudding is reciprocation.
How many Islamic states would like their people in christian nations. Treated the way they treat christians in their countries ?

The secular wast has established an “indifference” to religion, which differs from “tolerance” of religion. Many “Islamic” countries you speak of are intollerant to Muslims as well as Christians. I will say that the Muslim world has its share of problems and there are underground rallies for change but it will be slow and over time, and much of the time the positive change demanded by the neo-cons in the US are hindered by the very foreign policies that they put forth, all backed by the industrial military complex of the US (Egypt is a prime example, as well as the Central Asian countries).

 

[kristyn]

Abd al-Haqq:

Terrorism is an element that entered into Islam in the 20th century (give or take 60-70 years),

If you read History (correct history), you will see that Islamic terrorism started with it’s founder.

 

[Abd_al-Haqq]

kristyn:

Abd al-Haqq:

Terrorism is an element that entered into Islam in the 20th century (give or take 60-70 years),

If you read History (correct history), you will see that Islamic terrorism started with it’s founder.

Ambiguous, if not cryptic.

1. what is the offical correct history and what makes it “correct”
2. define terrorism (you are loosely throwing around terms) and relate it to your “defined” correct history in terms of actions that fit your use of terrorism, which up until now has been used to denote 20th century violence by poltical groups.
   Thanks.

 

[cute2904]

The proofs are right before your eyes, the witnesses and the victims are living right next to me. My priest got fire shot by a muslim during sunday mass few years ago. The oppresion for the dhimi is never end. While you living in the west, you enjoy freedom, no body forbid you or attack you for doing your religious rituals and still you always twisting the words, always have excuses for what your extremist brothers doing in all over the world. Last time was in my country (bali), I dont know where is next. Do not waste so much energy to explain. I know what it feels.

 

[Abd_al-Haqq]

cute2904:

The proofs are right before your eyes, the witnesses and the victims are living right next to me. My priest got fire shot by a muslim during sunday mass few years ago. The oppresion for the dhimi is never end.

Fallacious: Anecdotal
Your testimonial is nice when it comes time to gather up the money dish or to try for an emmy or an oscar for acting, but it does absolutely nothing for a real world discussion. It is similiar in nature as the “trilemma” of CS Lewis.

cute2904:

While you living in the west, you enjoy freedom, no body forbid you or attack you for doing your religious rituals and still you always twisting the words, always have excuses for what your extremist brothers doing in all over the world.

Overly presumptuous. You have no idea where I have lived or the extant of my experience. Since they add little to this topic, I am wondering why you think yours can prove anything beyond your discontent.

cute2904:

Last time was in my country (bali), I dont know where is next. Do not waste so much energy to explain. I know what it feels.

Still more anecdotal pleadings.
Missionaries, the church, and Christianity has its long list of crimes against civilization. The point is, I do not smear all Christians or the Catholic Church in some sweeping generalization to promote a missionary agenda.

 

[StMarkEofE]

Hashi Al-Eritre:

Faiths are not judged by its claimants, they are judged by its actual teachings. Its very easy to narrate the faults of muslims and catholics, past and present, but the way to judge a religion is by studying its teachings, not by its followers.

One very very important element that you missed and that is Faith is judged by the ACTIONS of its followers.

StMarkEofE

 

[Abd_al-Haqq]

StMarkEofE:

One very very important element that you missed and that is Faith is judged by the ACTIONS of its followers.

StMarkEofE

Greetings.
If faith is judged by the actions of followers, then what does this say about your faith given the dark ages, the destruction of Americas, the atrocities against Jews, especially after the Passion performances were run. Furthermore, what does this say about Jesus if you happened to be a citizen of Jericho and one of the thousands ordered slaughtered.

It is irrational to judge a faith by the actions of those who claim to follow it, given that actions are based upon understanding, and it is a fact that understanding is not always equal to the faith, or what the faith teaches, no more than a student of Harvard Law school who fails the Bar exam should imply that Harvard law school is flawed. By relying on the actions of the few to generalize the masses, and the faith, one is guilty of generalizing from the particular in a intellectually bankrupt manner.

 

[cute2904]

Abd al-Haqq:

It is irrational to judge a faith by the actions of those who claim to follow it, given that actions are based upon understanding, and it is a fact that understanding is not always equal to the faith, or what the faith teaches, no more than a student of Harvard Law school who fails the Bar exam should imply that Harvard law school is flawed. By relying on the actions of the few to generalize the masses, and the faith, one is guilty of generalizing from the particular in a intellectually bankrupt manner.

So do you have any reasonable explanation why we should tolarate such brutal action? by claiming that understanding is not always equal to the faith?

8:12 We will cast terror into the heart of unbelievers. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them
3:28 Let not the Muslims take for friends or helpers the non Muslims
8:65 Rouse the Muslims to the fight against unbelievers
9:5 Fight the unbelievers, and God will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame.
9:28 O ye the Muslims! Truly the unbelievers are unclean.
47:4 Therefore, when ye meet the unbelievers, smite at their necks; At length

Isnt that very cruel? Isnt that violent and inhumane? Doesnt that bother you? Tell me why?

 

[Shadowcry]

Which religion doesnt have a dark side ?

 

[cute2904]

Shadowcry:

Which religion doesnt have a dark side ?

Christianity has a dark side in the past. I personally admit it.

However Jesus never teach to kill the unbelievers. Not a single verse in the NT advocate violance, terror and bloodshed. Why you think muslims should be given all the freedoms to practice their religion in non-muslims countries while non-muslims have no right to do the same in Islamic countries? Have you ever protested about the discrimination and abuses of non-muslims in Islamic countries? why not? isn’t it because you actually agree that non-muslims do not have the same rights as muslims?

 

[cute2904]

Fallacious: Anecdotal
Your testimonial is nice when it comes time to gather up the money dish or to try for an emmy or an oscar for acting, but it does absolutely nothing for a real world discussion. It is similiar in nature as the “trilemma” of CS Lewis.

You are in the dark side, so you wouldnt believe for what I have said. Unreasonable huh?. Yea seem so. Anyway my testimonial is not nice at all. Really. Moreover for getting an oscar for acting it. Amost killed a man, for no reason, for just because you are a Christian… yes IT means SOMETHING. and you say it does absolutely nothing for real world discussion? hello… we are talking about your claimed peace religion here.

Overly presumptuous. You have no idea where I have lived or the extant of my experience. Since they add little to this topic, I am wondering why you think yours can prove anything beyond your discontent.

Should I care where you live while you are now have your cup of coffee, sitting on your seat and rejecting all the proofs for what happened in the world today by defending your brothers and say it overly presumptuous while on the other part of the world people here strugling of how we could practice our own religion peacefully? how nice…

Still more anecdotal pleadings.
Missionaries, the church, and Christianity has its long list of crimes against civilization. The point is, I do not smear all Christians or the Catholic Church in some sweeping generalization to promote a missionary agenda.

Church has crime against civilization? hmm interesting. It is Islam that promote doctrie of hate and against humanity.

This is taken from Islamic site :
"The punishment for apostasy (riddah) is well-known in Islaamic Shariah The one who leave Islam will be asked to repent by the shariah judge in an Islamic country; if he does not repent and come back to the true religion, he will be killed as kaffirs and apostate, because of the command of the prophet(pbuh) : “Whoever changes his religion, kill him.” (Reported by al-Bukhaari, 3017)

 

[Abd_al-Haqq]

cute2904:

So do you have any reasonable explanation why we should tolarate such brutal action? by claiming that understanding is not always equal to the faith?

Greetings. I offer a reasonable explanation for common Christian hypocrisy of “special pleading”, where violence is somehow piouse and “ok” as long as it is in the bible. I think this stems from the well known syndrom known as “plank in your eye”. A common teaching found in the gospel but popularly ignored. Allow me to demonstrate your blatant use of “special pleading”.

Allow me to remind you that Jesus is co-eternal, and equal to the father, according to your faith.

Jesus is a baby killer:
Deut.

2:33 And the LORD our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people.
2:34 And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain:

3:5 All these cities were fenced with high walls, gates, and bars; beside unwalled towns a great many.
3:6 And we utterly destroyed them, as we did unto Sihon king of Heshbon, utterly destroying the men, women, and children, of every city.

So using your rational, one should not follow Jesus as He might ask you to kill children. How can you expect the world to tolerate your violent Gd?
Will you be predictable and tell me that somehow Gd has changed His ways and He has left His violent nature back in time such that it matters no more? Or will you justify how Christian violence is “ok”? WHere was Jesus during these episodes? Did He protest against the Father?

Jesus teaches that we should abandon the sick to die alone:
Numbers
5:2 Command the children of Israel, that they put out of the camp every leper, and every one that hath an issue, and whosoever is defiled by the dead:
5:3 Both male and female shall ye put out, without the camp shall ye put them; that they defile not their camps, in the midst whereof I dwell.

How can you justify tolerating such blatant cruelty? Your faith frightens me. (I hope my point is beginning to sink it)

cute2904:

8:12 We will cast terror into the heart of unbelievers. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them
3:28 Let not the Muslims take for friends or helpers the non Muslims
8:65 Rouse the Muslims to the fight against unbelievers
9:5 Fight the unbelievers, and God will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame.
9:28 O ye the Muslims! Truly the unbelievers are unclean.
47:4 Therefore, when ye meet the unbelievers, smite at their necks; At length

Isnt that very cruel? Isnt that violent and inhumane? Doesnt that bother you? Tell me why?

AMusing that you have failed to make a specific point. Since you follow Jesus and the bible, I can assume you are not really against “violence”, you are simply ignoring the plank in your eye so you might smear others.

8:12 Is about the battle of Badr. Given that Jesus commanded the Hebrews to fight MANY battles, and to slaughter the inhabitants, after sometimes claiming virgins as prizes, I am puzzled as to why this verse is a problem for you?
8:65 is also about the famous battle of Badr. Again I am puzzled at the difficulty you are having. If you brand my faith as intolerant because of these verses, then be intellectually honest and renounce your faith here and now due to worse circumstances in your own traditions.
3:28 uses the “wali” as friend, and when read within the context and the spirit of the verse, it is describing a relationship where the friendship is at a level of discharging personal affairs, and it also refers to the pagan enemies of the Muslims. There is a method of reading texts called Principle of Charity. This is where a text is rendered in the least outrageous manner. As a Muslim I am allowed to marry a Christian or a Jew. So, with your rendering, I am not permitted to be friends with the mother of my children? Of course not.
By the way, would you like to read about your Gd’s view on interracial marriage? Or how the Hebrews were supposed to treat their non-Hebrew neighbors?
It is late and by now my point should be sinking in. In the future, instead of substituting “lists” and “red herrings” for real substance, just stick with a verse and make your point.
Peace

 

[cute2904]

Well abd-al haqq (i assume you were a member of this forum before lol) thanks for the explanation. it seemsn doesnt change the way I see about Islam and for what happened in this world today. Not before you stop terrorizing and killing innocent people.

 

[Abd_al-Haqq]

cute2904:

You are in the dark side, so you wouldnt believe for what I have said. Unreasonable huh?. Yea seem so. Anyway my testimonial is not nice at all. Really. Moreover for getting an oscar for acting it. Amost killed a man, for no reason, for just because you are a Christian… yes IT means SOMETHING. and you say it does absolutely nothing for real world discussion? hello… we are talking about your claimed peace religion here.

I apologize for upsetting you. Perhaps you should post your personal experiences in another thread where they might have more meaning. Anecdotal evidence does not really make a point.

cute2904:

Should I care where you live while you are now have your cup of coffee, sitting on your seat and rejecting all the proofs for what happened in the world today by defending your brothers and say it overly presumptuous while on the other part of the world people here strugling of how we could practice our own religion peacefully? how nice…

So you refuse to show any intellectual integrity and are now diverging off into the world of an editorial.

Church has crime against civilization? hmm interesting. It is Islam that promote doctrie of hate and against humanity.

Yes it did, and if I use your raitonal, one can claim your faith is barbaric because Jesus had innocent babies killed and permitted His soldiers to have virgins as prizes. (is realty sinking in or will you continue to deflect and appeal to hypocricy and special pleading simply to feed your hate and phobia?)

cute2904:

This is taken from Islamic site :
"The punishment for apostasy (riddah) is well-known in Islaamic Shariah The one who leave Islam will be asked to repent by the shariah judge in an Islamic country; if he does not repent and come back to the true religion, he will be killed as kaffirs and apostate, because of the command of the prophet(pbuh) : “Whoever changes his religion, kill him.” (Reported by al-Bukhaari, 3017)

I would be happy to discuss this if you will directly respond to my point below.

This is right from your “word of Gd”, from Jesus Himself. This is what they say about apostates, or trying to convert someone from His faith:
Deut.
13:6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;

13:7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;
13:8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:
13:9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.
13:10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

So if my faith is wrong, then will you be honest and either denounce your faith, or be more rational and civil about interfaith dialogue?
Why is it I already know what your response will be.
How unfortunate.
PS
I am not being nasty nor am I branding the Christian faith with anything deragatory, I am simply making a point.
Peace

 

[Abd_al-Haqq]

cute2904:

Well abd-al haqq (i assume you were a member of this forum before lol) thanks for the explanation. it seemsn doesnt change the way I see about Islam and for what happened in this world today. Not before you stop terrorizing and killing innocent people.

Thank you for completely avoiding the points I replied with. We can agree to disagree. And no, I have never been a member of this forum, I was invited here at another forum by a Christian, although I fail to see any relevance to the thread.
Peace

 

[kristyn]

Abd al-Haqq:

Greetings. I offer a reasonable explanation for common Christian hypocrisy of “special pleading”, where violence is somehow piouse and “ok” as long as it is in the bible. I think this stems from the well known syndrom known as “plank in your eye”. A common teaching found in the gospel but popularly ignored. Allow me to demonstrate your blatant use of “special pleading”.

Allow me to remind you that Jesus is co-eternal, and equal to the father, according to your faith.

Jesus is a baby killer:
Deut.

2:33 And the LORD our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people.
2:34 And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain:

3:5 All these cities were fenced with high walls, gates, and bars; beside unwalled towns a great many.
3:6 And we utterly destroyed them, as we did unto Sihon king of Heshbon, utterly destroying the men, women, and children, of every city.

So using your rational, one should not follow Jesus as He might ask you to kill children. How can you expect the world to tolerate your violent Gd?
Will you be predictable and tell me that somehow Gd has changed His ways and He has left His violent nature back in time such that it matters no more? Or will you justify how Christian violence is “ok”? WHere was Jesus during these episodes? Did He protest against the Father?

Jesus teaches that we should abandon the sick to die alone:
Numbers
5:2 Command the children of Israel, that they put out of the camp every leper, and every one that hath an issue, and whosoever is defiled by the dead:
5:3 Both male and female shall ye put out, without the camp shall ye put them; that they defile not their camps, in the midst whereof I dwell.

How can you justify tolerating such blatant cruelty? Your faith frightens me. (I hope my point is beginning to sink it)

AMusing that you have failed to make a specific point. Since you follow Jesus and the bible, I can assume you are not really against “violence”, you are simply ignoring the plank in your eye so you might smear others.

8:12 Is about the battle of Badr. Given that Jesus commanded the Hebrews to fight MANY battles, and to slaughter the inhabitants, after sometimes claiming virgins as prizes, I am puzzled as to why this verse is a problem for you?
8:65 is also about the famous battle of Badr. Again I am puzzled at the difficulty you are having. If you brand my faith as intolerant because of these verses, then be intellectually honest and renounce your faith here and now due to worse circumstances in your own traditions.
3:28 uses the “wali” as friend, and when read within the context and the spirit of the verse, it is describing a relationship where the friendship is at a level of discharging personal affairs, and it also refers to the pagan enemies of the Muslims. There is a method of reading texts called Principle of Charity. This is where a text is rendered in the least outrageous manner. As a Muslim I am allowed to marry a Christian or a Jew. So, with your rendering, I am not permitted to be friends with the mother of my children? Of course not.
By the way, would you like to read about your Gd’s view on interracial marriage? Or how the Hebrews were supposed to treat their non-Hebrew neighbors?
It is late and by now my point should be sinking in. In the future, instead of substituting “lists” and “red herrings” for real substance, just stick with a verse and make your point.
Peace

        I am quoting all of your self-ritous ranting for a reason, being if you think our bible is so corrupt why are you using it to prove your silly point?  (only fellow devout Catholics  will understand my use of the word "silly" as it is not worth, at this point, to explain our Faith, because you are not humble and open enough to unerstand any bit of it) 
                              In charity,
                                        kristyn

 

[cute2904]

Abd al-Haqq:

I apologize for upsetting you. Perhaps you should post your personal experiences in another thread where they might have more meaning. Anecdotal evidence does not really make a point.

I’m here not to share my personal experiences but I’m here trying to show how cruel your doctrines are. I’m here not asking any help or pity or sympathy but I’m here to open everyone’s eyes how danger you are.

So you refuse to show any intellectual integrity and are now diverging off into the world of an editorial.

Why should I show any intellectual integrity? I’m part of the members of this world thus I’m part of the world (of an editorial). To know how cruel your doctrine doesnt need any intellectual integrity. Just using your common sense. Ordinary people like me doesnt need to write with good words or manner. I say for what I feel and I tell people for what have happened. As simple as that.

Yes it did, and if I use your raitonal, one can claim your faith is barbaric because Jesus had innocent babies killed and permitted His soldiers to have virgins as prizes. (is realty sinking in or will you continue to deflect and appeal to hypocricy and special pleading simply to feed your hate and phobia?)

Arent those what mohammed done during his prophethood?

I would be happy to discuss this if you will directly respond to my point below.
This is right from your “word of Gd”, from Jesus Himself. This is what they say about apostates, or trying to convert someone from His faith:
Deut.
13:6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;
13:7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;
13:8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:
13:9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.
13:10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

This is Old Testament. These verses are word of God. Thats why Jesus came down on New Testament and make everything complete by his law. Love one to another. Do you see Christian now running such law? It is you who are running such law in your sharia law. Because why? because your prophet had poor integrity when copied the bible and OT. So he erased all Jesus’ true teaching about love. and go back to the Old testament’s time.

So if my faith is wrong, then will you be honest and either denounce your faith, or be more rational and civil about interfaith dialogue?
Why is it I already know what your response will be.
How unfortunate.

Be more rational and civil about interfaith dialogue? There is nothing you can do with my claim that your religion is religion of piece. Piece of meat where people blown up themselves among innocent people and they think they will go to heaven. If you want to have a more rational and civil interfaith dialogue, you first have to show how rational and civil you are towards humanity.

PS I am not being nasty nor am I branding the Christian faith with anything deragatory, I am simply making a point.
Peace

You are not being nasty. I dont think you are branding Christian with deragatory either. And yes like you do, I am also simply making my points. Peace to you too