Islam is a religion of peace

[HolyCrusader007]

Hello all, I posed this question to a few forums, including a gambling forum, and a Muslim forum. As to the poll results , I noted that Muslims agree and disagree that Islam is a religion of peace. In addition, the majority of those on my gambling forum disagreed that Islam is a religion of peace, and did so by a wide margin.

I ask posters to give their honest opinion. Additionally I’m not Muslim, so I will ask the poster to imagine hearing the statement of “Islam is a Religion of Peace” from a Muslim in the live world as opposed to on this internet forum.

The following is from a transcript of a Oxford Union debate about Islam being a religion of peace

“Ladies and gentleman, let me just say this to you, think about what the opposite of the motion is, if you vote tonight opposition’s motion (Is Islam a religion of peace?), Islam isn’t the religion of peace,it is religion of war, of violence, of terror, of aggression but the people who follow Islam me, my wife, my retired parents, my six-year-old child but one point eight million of your fellow British residents and citizens of one point two billion people across the world, your fellow human beings, are all followers, promoters, believers in the religion of violence? Do you really think that”

youtube.com/watch?v=XlvpGshhTrI

Many blessings to all

 

[oldcatholicguy]

-You need to define “religion of peace” as it can mean several different things to different people
-The linked video is great. It doesn’t really address the topic of your thread, but it does a great job of countering the common “gutter” arguments put forth concerning Islam.

 

[Kliska]

From a protestant Christian perspective, Islam can’t be a religion of peace for several reasons. First a “religion” can’t be peaceful, it is the humans that are either peaceful or warlike. So, Muslims can either be peaceful or warlike as individuals and it is each individual that is responsible for their actions and attitudes, some are peaceful, some not. Secondly, the religion itself cannot do the main thing we focus on in Christianity, it cannot bring peace between the individual and God. If a person does not have peace with God, it makes it much harder to have peace with our fellow man.

If we want to look at teachings of the faith, well I’ve discussed this with Muslims and they readily admit that there are large groups of Muslims that do indeed believe jihad is to be armed conflict anywhere there are people that will not convert and that the Koran is very clear on the matter. The difference seems to be on how the group interprets “jihad” not whether or not it is called for in the Koran, for it clearly is.

 

[meltzerboy]

From a protestant Christian perspective, Islam can’t be a religion of peace for several reasons. First a “religion” can’t be peaceful, it is the humans that are either peaceful or warlike. So, Muslims can either be peaceful or warlike as individuals and it is each individual that is responsible for their actions and attitudes, some are peaceful, some not. Secondly, the religion itself cannot do the main thing we focus on in Christianity, it cannot bring peace between the individual and God. If a person does not have peace with God, it makes it much harder to have peace with our fellow man.

If we want to look at teachings of the faith, well I’ve discussed this with Muslims and they readily admit that there are large groups of Muslims that do indeed believe jihad is to be armed conflict anywhere there are people that will not convert and that the Koran is very clear on the matter. The difference seems to be on how the group interprets “jihad” not whether or not it is called for in the Koran, for it clearly is.

Why can’t the religion of Islam “bring peace between the individual and G-d”?

 

[House_Harkonnen]

Hello all, I posed this question to a few forums, including a gambling forum, and a Muslim forum. As to the poll results , I noted that Muslims agree and disagree that Islam is a religion of peace. In addition, the majority of those on my gambling forum disagreed that Islam is a religion of peace, and did so by a wide margin.

I ask posters to give their honest opinion. Additionally I’m not Muslim, so I will ask the poster to imagine hearing the statement of “Islam is a Religion of Peace” from a Muslim in the live world as opposed to on this internet forum.

The following is from a transcript of a Oxford Union debate about Islam being a religion of peace

“Ladies and gentleman, let me just say this to you, think about what the opposite of the motion is, if you vote tonight opposition’s motion (Is Islam a religion of peace?), Islam isn’t the religion of peace,it is religion of war, of violence, of terror, of aggression but the people who follow Islam me, my wife, my retired parents, my six-year-old child but one point eight million of your fellow British residents and citizens of one point two billion people across the world, your fellow human beings, are all followers, promoters, believers in the religion of violence? Do you really think that”

youtube.com/watch?v=XlvpGshhTrI

Many blessings to all

Islam is a false religion. False religions can never bring peace.

The only thing that can bring true peace is our Lord Jesus Christ and his gift of grace through the cross unto salvation. Anything outside of that is transient, illusory, and cannot bring peace. That’s why Islamic lands are rife with hatred, fear, persecution of dissenters and women, terror and despair. It’s only in Christ can these things be healed.

 

[gilliam]

youtube.com/watch?v=XlvpGshhTrI

Many blessings to all

This is the full debate at Oxford. It is probably worthwhile to listen to the whole thing.

youtube.com/watch?v=joNTLaGE0wU

IMHO, we are not talking about a religion as much as people who are following a religion with a number of different schools in different parts of the world and so the question being asked in the OP is probably not the correct question.

 

[Kliska]

Why can’t the religion of Islam “bring peace between the individual and G-d”?

HH covered that in his reply; as you know, we Christians believe and profess that Jesus the Christ is the Lamb that takes away the sins of the world, and eternal life is available by grace through faith in the Son of God and His life, death, and resurrection. Otherwise it is like showing up before God empty handed, with sin intact. Jesus’ sacrifice was provided so there could be right relationship with God and man, to deny the sacrifice is to keep oneself out of right relationship with God intentionally.

Muslims who have heard the gospel yet accept the Islamic teaching that Jesus did not actually die, that He was not Lord, that He did not raise bodily from the dead, are not at peace with God because they are still in their sin. Muslims who have never heard the gospel, but who hearken to that internal conscience in each of us that steers us to God, can indeed wind up in right relationship with God, but still only through Jesus, and His payment for sin on the cross.

 

[SteveVH]

HH covered that in his reply; as you know, we Christians believe and profess that Jesus the Christ is the Lamb that takes away the sins of the world, and eternal life is available by grace through faith in the Son of God and His life, death, and resurrection. Otherwise it is like showing up before God empty handed, with sin intact. Jesus’ sacrifice was provided so there could be right relationship with God and man, to deny the sacrifice is to keep oneself out of right relationship with God intentionally.

Muslims who have heard the gospel yet accept the Islamic teaching that Jesus did not actually die, that He was not Lord, that He did not raise bodily from the dead, are not at peace with God because they are still in their sin. Muslims who have never heard the gospel, but who hearken to that internal conscience in each of us that steers us to God, can indeed wind up in right relationship with God, but still only through Jesus, and His payment for sin on the cross.

Nicely put!

 

[meltzerboy]

HH covered that in his reply; as you know, we Christians believe and profess that Jesus the Christ is the Lamb that takes away the sins of the world, and eternal life is available by grace through faith in the Son of God and His life, death, and resurrection. Otherwise it is like showing up before God empty handed, with sin intact. Jesus’ sacrifice was provided so there could be right relationship with God and man, to deny the sacrifice is to keep oneself out of right relationship with God intentionally.

Muslims who have heard the gospel yet accept the Islamic teaching that Jesus did not actually die, that He was not Lord, that He did not raise bodily from the dead, are not at peace with God because they are still in their sin. Muslims who have never heard the gospel, but who hearken to that internal conscience in each of us that steers us to God, can indeed wind up in right relationship with God, but still only through Jesus, and His payment for sin on the cross.

I understand. You are using the word “peace” in the sense of right relationship with G-d. However, I still believe that a Muslim can derive a sense of inner peace from their religion, just as a Christian or a Jew can from theirs, as well as a right relationship with G-d.

 

[Kliska]

I understand. You are using the word “peace” in the sense of right relationship with G-d. However, I still believe that a Muslim can derive a sense of inner peace from their religion, just as a Christian or a Jew can from theirs, as well as a right relationship with G-d.

Right, if we take God out of the equation, as far as defining “peace” apart from theology, I would imagine their prayers, routine, pillars, etc… could give an inner peace, just as I believe atheists, agnostics, etc… can build inner peace through various means as well. I was looking beyond that to the ultimate point when we meet our Maker.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

Right, if we take God out of the equation, as far as defining “peace” apart from theology, I would imagine their prayers, routine, pillars, etc… could give an inner peace, just as I believe atheists, agnostics, etc… can build inner peace through various means as well. I was looking beyond that to the ultimate point when we meet our Maker.

The ultimate point of “when we meet our Maker”? Funny, I thought our entire relationship with God actually mattered, not just when we meet Him in person. Focusing on just that point is kind of like saying that the only point in a marriage that really matters is when one of the individuals dies.

There is also the part of how you discredit the idea held by all the Abrahamic faiths that the truth is always the truth. Apparently those teachings and aspects of Islam that are found to be true in Christianity and Judaism are somehow no longer true. Unlike you, I would imagine that those aspects within Islam that are true (I hold to the silly notion that the truth is always the truth even if surrounded by untruths/error) would bring Muslims closer to God and strengthen their relationship with Him.

 

[Kliska]

The ultimate point of “when we meet our Maker”? Funny, I thought our entire relationship with God actually mattered, not just when we meet Him in person. Focusing on just that point is kind of like saying that the only point in a marriage that really matters is when one of the individuals dies.

Then that is denying that the world can offer a kind of peace. Of course it can, but much of what the world offers as peace, if one dies in that without Christ, it won’t amount to much without Jesus (if one has had the gospel rightly presented and they deny the sacrifice of the Lord). I think you missed the clarification. This life is but a vapor, and is only the very beginning of eternity. Focusing only on this life, and not speaking of death does not do anyone any favors.

There is also the part of how you discredit the idea held by all the Abrahamic faiths that the truth is always the truth. Apparently those teachings and aspects of Islam that are found to be true in Christianity and Judaism are somehow no longer true. Unlike you, I would imagine that those aspects within Islam that are true (I hold to the silly notion that the truth is always the truth even if surrounded by untruths/error) would bring Muslims closer to God and strengthen their relationship with Him.

That was also contained in what I said.

 

[HolyCrusader007]

HH covered that in his reply; as you know, we Christians believe and profess that Jesus the Christ is the Lamb that takes away the sins of the world, and eternal life is available by grace through faith in the Son of God and His life, death, and resurrection. Otherwise it is like showing up before God empty handed, with sin intact. Jesus’ sacrifice was provided so there could be right relationship with God and man, to deny the sacrifice is to keep oneself out of right relationship with God intentionally.

Muslims who have heard the gospel yet accept the Islamic teaching that Jesus did not actually die, that He was not Lord, that He did not raise bodily from the dead, are not at peace with God because they are still in their sin. Muslims who have never heard the gospel, but who hearken to that internal conscience in each of us that steers us to God, can indeed wind up in right relationship with God, but still only through Jesus, and His payment for sin on the cross.

Hello Kliska.

What I find interesting is that in Islam, it is said that Jews and Christians can enter heaven, although it is debated as to which Jews and Christians can enter heaven.

Indeed, those who believed and those who were Jews or Christians or Sabeans [before Prophet Muhammad] - those [among them] who believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteousness - will have their reward with their Lord, and no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve.

quran.com/2/62

Some Christians suggest that Muslims who have not heard the message of the Gospel, but who do good deeds, can get into heaven. Now, some Muslims suggest that certain non Muslims can get into heaven, that is if they have not heard the message of the Quran. I have talked with Muslims in real life who tell me that Christians who do know of Islam, but who refuse to convert, do not get into heaven. But all of that said Kliska, I would like to post a short video here that I found to be interesting. Here is a video of Hazrat Mirza Tahir Ahmad, a Ahmadiyya Muslim, weighing in an answer to the question of "Will non Muslims go to heaven, and I think that folks are going to find his answer to be interesting. Now it should be noted that the Ahmadiyya community has faced discrimination in certain parts of the world, nevertheless I think that Hazrat Mirza Tahir Ahmad has some good qualities. Here is the video.

Will non Muslims go to Heaven or Hell?

Answered by Hazrat Mirza Tahir Ahmad(rh) the 4th khalifa of the worldwide Ahmadiyya Muslim Community.

youtube.com/watch?v=EvOWXtUHqdc

Many blessings to all

 

[meltzerboy]

Hello Kliska.

What I find interesting is that in Islam, it is said that Jews and Christians can enter heaven, although it is debated as to which Jews and Christians can enter heaven.

Indeed, those who believed and those who were Jews or Christians or Sabeans [before Prophet Muhammad] - those [among them] who believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteousness - will have their reward with their Lord, and no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve.

quran.com/2/62

Some Christians suggest that Muslims who have not heard the message of the Gospel, but who do good deeds, can get into heaven. Now, some Muslims suggest that certain non Muslims can get into heaven, that is if they have not heard the message of the Quran. I have talked with Muslims in real life who tell me that Christians who do know of Islam, but who refuse to convert, do not get into heaven. But all of that said Kliska, I would like to post a short video here that I found to be interesting. Here is a video of Hazrat Mirza Tahir Ahmad, a Ahmadiyya Muslim, weighing in an answer to the question of "Will non Muslims go to heaven, and I think that folks are going to find his answer to be interesting. Now it should be noted that the Ahmadiyya community has faced discrimination in certain parts of the world, nevertheless I think that Hazrat Mirza Tahir Ahmad has some good qualities. Here is the video.

Will non Muslims go to Heaven or Hell?

Answered by Hazrat Mirza Tahir Ahmad(rh) the 4th khalifa of the worldwide Ahmadiyya Muslim Community.

youtube.com/watch?v=EvOWXtUHqdc

Many blessings to all

I wonder if Islam derived its heaven-bound orientation way of thinking, including such ideas as invincible ignorance, from Christianity.

 

[Kliska]

We can find exceptions to every belief system amongst those that profess a certain religion. My main concern is 1) Individuals and their relationship with the Lord that bought them, and with their fellow man, and 2) the number of believers in each religion with certain views.

My first post in this thread sums up my pov pretty directly, and as stated I’ve personally known and taught some peaceful and kind Muslims.

 

[eddie_too]

how can a finite and imperfect sacrifice (which might be a doctrine of islam, I am not sure) atone for sins against an infinite and perfect being?

and, without atoning for one’s sins against our Perfect Creator, how does one find union with that Creator?

and, if a person can not find union with God, how can they find peace with Him?

our sins set us against God, how is this opposition created by our sins overcome in islam?

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

I understand. You are using the word “peace” in the sense of right relationship with G-d. However, I still believe that a Muslim can derive a sense of inner peace from their religion, just as a Christian or a Jew can from theirs, as well as a right relationship with G-d.

That is true of all religions. But what does it prophet a man who believes in God and who loves his own family and loves his own friends and hates his enemy?

Christianity is the only God fearing religion that Loves as God revealed His Love to our humanity on the Cross of crucifixion. Can a Jew love a Muslim, or a Muslim love a Jew for being a Jew?

When one cannot love his enemy, who loves God, that one can never find peace, but seeks his own peace by taking another’s peace.

Peace be with you

 

[meltzerboy]

That is true of all religions. But what does it prophet a man who believes in God and who loves his own family and loves his own friends and hates his enemy?

Christianity is the only God fearing religion that Loves as God revealed His Love to our humanity on the Cross of crucifixion. Can a Jew love a Muslim, or a Muslim love a Jew for being a Jew?

When one cannot love his enemy, who loves God, that one can never find peace, but seeks his own peace by taking another’s peace.

Peace be with you

A Jew can and should love each human being for being a human being. This precept is inscribed in the Torah. A generation before Jesus, Hillel the Elder summarized the essence of the Law by stating that its two guiding principles are love of G-d and love of neighbor. This does not, however, include loving one’s enemy, which the Torah does not command, because it is unrealistic to think one can achieve such love. Godlike human perfection is not a commandment or goal in Judaism. However, one is commanded to treat one’s enemy fairly, which is the meaning of “an eye for an eye,” rather than demanding, for example, two eyes. By acting in this way, one can learn to control one’s impulses to do harm to one’s enemy, including his land, his property, and his animals. And by harnessing impulses, one learns not to abuse the evil inclination, which, if used properly in the form of controlled aggression and in conjunction with the good inclination, can serve as a means of living a good life.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

meltzerboy;12418189]This does not, however, include loving one’s enemy, which the Torah does not command, because it is unrealistic to think one can achieve such love.

It is unrealistic according to the flesh. It is true no man of himself could never love his enemy, left by himself, man finds it difficult to even love his own neighbor as himself.

Yet, according to the prophets who preannounce God pouring out His Spirit upon His children, to give them a new spirit and new hearts of flesh. It is by an act of God, Jesus Christ crucified, that the children of God given God’s Holy Spirit can do all things, for nothing is impossible for God who loves us unconditional.

This is the chasm, by God’s Holy Spirit which places Christians to be a peculiar people to all others, when Love of God is poured out into Love of enemy which is possible. Our first Christian martyr a Jew by recorded name St. Stephen, begged God to forgive His enemies as they stoned him to death, when many more Christians followed this same path who give witness to the world, that God’s love personified in Jesus Christ, gives Christians this divine Love to Love our enemies.

Your display of love is limited to things of the flesh. Christian Love is unconditional which is Love in the eternal Spirit made present in all ages by Christian witnesses.

Jews deny this Love of Christ from the Cross, and Muslims reject God’s Love in the Spirit, where true peace remains distant.

I could never imagine to be able to love my enemy on my own, if it were not for the Spirit God gives me through the sacrifice from the true Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world, Jesus Christ.

Jesus the only begotten Son of God in the Son of man is the only one who brings true peace into our world. All others are of flesh which returns to dust.

Peace be with you

 

[meltzerboy]

It is unrealistic according to the flesh. It is true no man of himself could never love his enemy, left by himself, man finds it difficult to even love his own neighbor as himself.

Yet, according to the prophets who preannounce God pouring out His Spirit upon His children, to give them a new spirit and new hearts of flesh. It is by an act of God, Jesus Christ crucified, that the children of God given God’s Holy Spirit can do all things, for nothing is impossible for God who loves us unconditional.

This is the chasm, by God’s Holy Spirit which places Christians to be a peculiar people to all others, when Love of God is poured out into Love of enemy which is possible. Our first Christian martyr a Jew by recorded name St. Stephen, begged God to forgive His enemies as they stoned him to death, when many more Christians followed this same path who give witness to the world, that God’s love personified in Jesus Christ, gives Christians this divine Love to Love our enemies.

Your display of love is limited to things of the flesh. Christian Love is unconditional which is Love in the eternal Spirit made present in all ages by Christian witnesses.

Jews deny this Love of Christ from the Cross, and Muslims reject God’s Love in the Spirit, where true peace remains distant.

I could never imagine to be able to love my enemy on my own, if it were not for the Spirit God gives me through the sacrifice from the true Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world, Jesus Christ.

Jesus the only begotten Son of God in the Son of man is the only one who brings true peace into our world. All others are of flesh which returns to dust.

Peace be with you

This is a noble sentiment, and I thank you for sharing it. For two of the best synopses of the Jewish perspective on the issue, please key in “Mishpatim (5769): Helping an Enemy” by Rabbi Jonathan Sacks and “Itzik’s Well: Mishpatim (5769): Saving your Enemy’s Sorry *** and Other Gateways to the Divine.”