Islam is BAD!!!

[RobHom]

Islam is not subject to political factions

I think the possibility exists that if you tell yourself that enough times you may actually believe it.

Islam is in itself a “political faction”. That cannot be denied. And to say that it is not subject to political factions…is one of the single most foolish statements one could make. If there were an iota of truth to that…then Muslims world-wide would be marching in the streets demanding a complete cessation of the violence and terrorism. Islamic countries would not be sponsoring terrorism…nor would they be funding it.

It exists in authentic sources understood by scholars.

Have you read the Koran? It amounts to little more than a religous-political manifesto.

Hamas is a political entity, not a religious one. The president of Iran holds a political post, not a religious one. They have absolutely no say, whatsoever, in matters of religion. None. Bringing them in to the discussion was wholly irrelevant.

They both hide under the “guise” of your religion though, and they sure jump when the mullahs tell them to. Hamas as well as the Iranians…along with Al-Qada…want “theocracy” under Islam. It is pretty much impossible to separate Islam from politics, because it is integral.

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[ricko]

I just wonder Sister Amy, what country do you live in?

 

[inJESUS]

No one who knows Islam can differentiate between the religion and politics…

 

[inJESUS]

I just wonder Sister Amy, what country do you live in?

She is American and lives there.

 

[Angelos]

There is a basic principle in Islam, no harm and no reciprocal harm. You say a man can beat his wife, and I say he cannot harm her. So if he can beat her without harming her, fine.

According to your Islamic principle, there MUST be reciprocal harm if there is harm. Then why does not your Koran let Muslim women retaliate when beaten by their husbands? Why cannot a Muslim woman beat her husband or harm him if the husband harms her?

A man can take more than one wife IF and only IF he is able to equally provide for EACH wife. tricky. And society today does not take slaves, so that’s pretty much irrelevant. Islam more than any other religion I know of is designed to lead towards freedom for slaves. If a man has a female slave and gets her pregnant, she becomes free. Period. Freeing slaves is a very admirable thing to do in Islam. Taking slaves, on the other hand, was more tribal/customary than Islamic and isn’t necessary anymore.

What you suppose is never supported in your Scripture since the Koran does not stipulate that a man equally provide for each wife before marrying many women. The Koran first ADVISES Muslim men to be fair to their wives. To a man who FEARS that he cannot be fair, the Koran advises to marry one woman OR to be content with concubines (plural!), which is another form of polygamy.

However, the same Koran later says that it is impossible for a man to be completely fair towards his wives and adds that the failure is a result of human nature! Thus, injustice is expected to occur, but is never considered a sin. Muslim men marrying many women are ADVISED to balance their love as much as possible since Allah is merciful (!). There is not a single verse in the Koran that praises monogamy over polygamy or ASKS men to prefer monogamy.

Only if you do it in public. And I don’t really think that’s bad at all.

That’s your personal view. I do not think that you are the queen of the world or a ruler. IMPO, beating a man that only drinks wine in public is barbarious.

Is that a reason for people to not convert? They like taxes? I don’t get it…

You are giving a silly answer to your silly question.

Wait a second… doesn’t the Bible say the EXACT same thing, that the Jews shouldn’t make alliances with other people? I mean, especially against other Jews? Come on this is common sense.

An answer based on the logical fallacy called false analogy. Israel is a NATION, Islam is (supposedly) a RELIGION.

Dear Amy, you still have lots of things to learn.

He taught to kill those who committed treason and violated their oath of allegiance. Many countries today do the same thing… including, in fact, the USA!

Evidence? Where does your Koran ask Muslims to fight ONLY the non-Muslims that commit treason and violate their oath of allegiance? The Koran version I read commands Muslims to defeat and humiliate the non-Muslims that do not turn to Islam, which is apparently different from the condition you suggest.

 

[rieux]

Just a quick correction: Neither Nepal nor India are predominently Muslim. Far from it, in fact. Nepal is less than 5% Muslim, and India is less than 20% Muslim. adherents.com/ is good for these kinds of statistics.

I should have fact checked that statement just to be sure before posting. Thank you for the correction and the link!

 

[planten]

How does one define harm? That’s the kind of semantic trickery that allows people to justify the most barbarous behavior. Isn’t the very act of beating someone harming them?
[/qoute]

There are ways to avoid harm, like beating with a straw so as to make her realise. Also husband is not allowed to hit the wife on the face. The problem is that the christians have no laws at all. So they can never understand anything. They did away the law which Jesus had come to follow and fulfil. But the church threw away that law under some false pretext.

Once again, how do you define providing for?
Society does not take slaves? I would suggest reading some of the UN reports, or human rights watch documents, or any of the numerous human rights reporting agency reports. Almost all of the countries “suspected” of condoning slavery in the modern age, today, are predominantly Muslim - Sudan, Niger, United Arab Emirates, Nepal, India, Pakistan, Indonesia.

 

[Harris]

No one who knows Islam can differentiate between the religion and politics…

You can, however, differentiate between Islam and a Muslim politician.

 

[planten]

I think the possibility exists that if you tell yourself that enough times you may actually believe it.

Islam is in itself a “political faction”. That cannot be denied. And to say that it is not subject to political factions…is one of the single most foolish statements one could make. If there were an iota of truth to that…then Muslims world-wide would be marching in the streets demanding a complete cessation of the violence and terrorism. Islamic countries would not be sponsoring terrorism…nor would they be funding it.

Please do not think that the present day Muslims are perfect. Similarly I also do not believe there is any real followers of Jesus in the world today. Islam does not support terrorism. Some non muslim people had severely disturbed the peace of some muslims so they reacted in a good or bad way. That has nothing to do with Islam. I don’t blame them.

Have you read the Koran? It amounts to little more than a religous-political manifesto.

** Please read the OT too. You will find some of that politics there too. Then pass a remark about Quran. It will only prove that your religion (christainity?) is false religion. It is not a religion at ll. It is a biography of a person called Jesus.**

They both hide under the “guise” of your religion though, and they sure jump when the mullahs tell them to. Hamas as well as the Iranians…along with Al-Qada…want “theocracy” under Islam. It is pretty much impossible to separate Islam from politics, because it is integral.

**This is a purely political remark and in your para above you have disliked the politics of the Quran. So please desist from appealing with your politics. No politics please. Just Love for all and hatred for none. Do you believe that// Please tell me. **

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[inJESUS]

There are ways to avoid harm, like beating with a straw so as to make her realise. Also husband is not allowed to hit the wife on the face.

 

[planten]

No one who knows Islam can differentiate between the religion and politics…

I will help you to understand this point. We Muslims do not mind any one (Muslims, Jews and the christians) to have some religious politics ( i.e. the policies to their own). But we do not like the political religions. Have some sort of religious politics but do not have a political religion. Go for spiritualism and true peace in the world.

 

[Angelos]

There are ways to avoid harm, like beating with a straw so as to make her realise. Also husband is not allowed to hit the wife on the face. The problem is that the christians have no laws at all. So they can never understand anything. They did away the law which Jesus had come to follow and fulfil. But the church threw away that law under some false pretext.

However, the measures that should be taken to avoid harm are not written in your Koran. Why should I follow your personal interpretation of the verse whilst I know that your additions aim to defend your faith?

Besides, the problem is that your scripture allows men to beat their wives. You cannot deny this scandalous permission.

This is not understood. about a hundred years ago, the white man (A jew or a christian) was busy trading the slaves from Afriqa into Amerika. The Americans were using those black people as slaves. Please think of that too. Don’t have one way (One eyed) traffic.

I fail to understand how you can associate slave trade practiced by a nation with a religion. To remind u, America is not the same as the Church of Christ.

Why do you use the word rape? Are the men in Paris daily raping the ladies there? It is being done with consent. Similarly, the man owns the slave girl. Islam teaches that he cannot use her without marrying her. It needs to be checked up. Forget the bad practice by the muslims. Like you disown the bad doings of the present day christians, I can disown the misdeeds of the old time Muslims.

Islam does not allow using the slave girl against her will and he has to marry her. Then all is lawful. So what is the problem?

I am looking for logic in your answer, but cannot find it. Slaves and free women cannot be put into the same category. A slave girl is someone’s possession.

Why not?. You are bound by that law which was for Jesus and his disciples. Church cannot run away from that. The new wine is atatched with the old winesack (OT) just for this purpose that all christians are bound to follow the law os Moses a.s.

The analogy of wine, which you frequently refer to in your arguments about the law of Christians and deliberately misinterpret to justify yourself, is definitely hazardous to your health. You already sound intoxicated.

That is also because Jesus was a prophet sub ordinate to Moses. So the laws of Moses apply to all christians who show their link with David and Moses and Abraham. David followed that law. So Jesus who is said to descendent of David has to do the same. And he did it. He followed that law perfectly with the right sensea nd he never abondoned it. He taught the right spirit of that law and never said even once that law was no longer valid.

Following the Law of Moses did not make Jesus subordinate to Moses. According to your weird reasoning, Mohammad is subordinate to Abraham because the Koran presents Abraham as the father of Islam. LOL Dear planten, you always fall into the same ditch you dig for Christians.

I also wonder why what Mohammad taught was different from what the other prophets taught. Although Mohammad claimed that he himself was a prophet like the former prophets, he wanted to distort the Bible and efface the teachings and promises of the other biblical figures before him.

I have to check you there. Kafir is not a simple disbeliever or non-Muslim. he is a hostile disbeliever who is bent upon annihilating Islam in any way, like disgracing it,opposing it by mouth or by taking up arms to finish Islam.

kafir is not a peaceful non-muslim person sitting at home not trying to harm Islam. Please understand that if you are a non believer in Islam and Muhammad, no one should harm you if you are peaceful and non-combatant. Do not try to teach us the meaning of the word “Kafir”.

The only thing I can say is that I do not know where you get that definition from. The Koran calls Jews and Christians Kafir because of their tenets, not because of how they approach Islam.

More to the point, you also agree that every non-Muslim who tries to annihilate Islam IN ANY WAY is a KAFIR. According to this honest definition, no non-Muslim can be a considered a peaceful believer since Jews and Christians naturally oppose Islam and criticise it. (Islam does the same for the other faiths through the Koran!).

 

[inJESUS]

You can, however, differentiate between Islam and a Muslim politician.

sure but since there is no authority in Islam, the differention becomes harder especially if the politician is a religious leader.

 

[inJESUS]

** Go for spiritualism and true peace in the world.**

in Islam you cannot seperate religion from politics…an individual Muslim can, but we are talking about Islam as sharia/system/government, not my neighbor who just wants to live.

 

[Irene72]

It seems “culture and (real) religion” cannot be separated on this forum.

 

[cathopologist]

Islam is BAD and Islam is Good. Which is which?

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

… Why are very educated people still muslims? …

Either I’m an idiot, or they are. Take your pick. I won’t mind.

 

[medallionsnijme]

ok well if muhammad adopted Christian beliefs then why does it say in the qu’ran that its ok if someone killed your brother to go and kill his brother? doesnt sound very Christian to me. especially since he came after Christ and Christ fulfilled all the old prophecies and the will of the Father and not to mention preached a revolutionary message of love and forgiveness.

next to that, dont you think it a bit odd that “paradise” according to islam includes a whole ton of virgins and everything that you deprived yourself of on earth: drinking, smoking, etc…sounds like a masked hell. why would you want to be in a place thats full of carnal desires if, by Christian standards, heaven is supposed to be a place where we are at total union with God Himself and in total communion with all the saints and angels.

as to the intelligence of people who convert to islam (and i will tell you that i was one of them before i came back to Catholicism), i believe intelligence has nothing to do with it. you could have the highest intelligence and be the dumbest person on earth, like when Jesus was saying “unless you become like little children you cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven.” children arent intelligent in a worldly sense, their hearts are pure and they are intelligent in the beatiful simplicity and trust in the Father that keeps them so incredibly close to heaven. adults tend to lose that simplicity and rely on their own intelligence and self. if that is the case, then that is more a case of ego-ism and therefore pride. pride is what was lucifer’s fall…

i believe that the muslim religion is sneaky and appealing like sparkling jewels…islamic art: its forbidden to draw things that are made by God (people, birds, plants, etc.), but if you look at their art (which i do believe is quite stunning from an artists perspective) its got geometric designs that imply birds, plants,etc. my point is that you can’t deceive God. He’s going to know if what youre doing is forbidden and He’s gonna know if you’re trying to fool Him. He can neither deceive nor be deceived. and the art is quite beautiful but too much so. and the muslim people are very proud. (i’ve known a lot of muslims people,a nd they are the sweetest people and extremely hospitable…it just seems theyre more so if they know you want to become one of them…otherwise we are unbelievers)

another interesting point is that the angel St. Gabriel appeared to Mary and announced that she was chosen to be the Mother of God. apparently the “angel gabriel” appeared to muhammed stating that Jesus was just a great prophet and not the Son of God…now you cant follow both paths, so which one is it? possibly the first!

the “claim to fame” from Jesus (being the proof that they are “legit”) was that when Jesus said that He was sending the Paraclete. according to islam, the Paraclete was muhammed. the statement itself, if you were going to take it in the context of it being muhammed is quite vague and seriously doubtful. and, if that were the case, then why would muhammeds teachings contradict those teachings of Christ?

AND its ok for the men (mind you, only the men! women shouldnt do such things as be immoral…) to fornicate with Christian women because they are unbelievers and it doesnt matter anyways because unbelievers cant make it to heaven. so if you want my opinion its a bunch of baloney! if muhammed was supposed to be the one after Jesus and “fulfill” whatever, wouldnt he be “lined-up” with all the previous prophets of the Bible and there would be proof of it? instead everything - or i should say ENOUGH things - are contradictory to what we believe as Christians that i dont see it as a valid argument for muhammed fulfilling anything good.

that does not mean that i think that muslim people are bad, far from it, but i believe that they are extremely misguided by lies.many of the muslim people i know have the biggest hearts and greatest and kindest intentions, but i do not think that they are living in truth and freedom. Christ came to bring peace to restless hearts, freedom to the imprisoned, and love and forgiveness** to all. you cannot top that message of love. i think to top it all, Christ DIED for His message of radical love and forgiveness to SHOW us that He meant what He said for each one of us! i dont see muhammed doing such a thing.

i agree with inJesus, the muslim culture IS their life and their life IS their religion. it permeates everything they do; they live it, they eat it, they breathe it. its what makes their culture what it is. you cannot separate the muslim from the islam. some may have varying degrees of how far they practice their religion (some to the extreme and some non-practicing**.

 

[medallionsnijme]

…and i forgot to mention that its ok to beat your women…silly me, it slipped my mind! boy, if beating your wife isnt a show of love and mercy, i dont know what else is! such kindness and compassion in islam, i tell ya!:doh2:

 

[tomarin]

Islam is BAD and Islam is Good. Which is which?

The truth is that no religion is completely bad. Islam isn’t “demonic” as someone above said. Reading that and other hysterically antagonistic things said about muslims here embarrasses me as a catholic and a christian. I know it’s not what our Church teaches.

I am not a relativist and I don’t believe that “all religions lead to God” but reading threads like this make me wonder why it is that so many people (a vocal minority, I hope) feel the need to beat up on another person’s religion in order to feel good about their own. If this isn’t against the forum rules, it ought to be.