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rad
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Actually on the other forum it’s named Islam’s xxxx ]i don’t know what word’s aren’t allowed on this forum so i didn’t include the complete title…
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Namesake
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Not quite true. Catholics on this site very frequently claim that they pray *to Mary. That statement can be found lots of places.
Catholics pray to Mary and they pray to saints. Is that so bad? I mean, they want Mary and the saints to do something for them so they pray to them for their help. Ya just gotta admit it because it’s really the way it is.
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dolphinlove
Guest
We do not worship statues!!!
Please read this to get an understanding:
here
Where did you ask these questions?? i did not read them anywhere??
Please point out to me your previous post where you asked these questions so that i may answer them for you…
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dolphinlove
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Yes we do pray to them, but when we do pray to them, we are praying WITH them to God. There is a big difference.
For example, when we kneel in front of a statue, we are requesting for that particular saint to pray to God, with us. This is not worshipping a statue, its not worshipping the saint. It is asking a person to pray with us.
Its like when you pray with a friends or family member.
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dolphinlove
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I know, ive just repeated myself another 3 times on here, no matter how easy you describe it, some people just dont get it, because they dont want to understand for fear they might actually follow Gods one true church and find out the religion they follow is false…
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Namesake
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Not quite. My friends and family are alive. Mary and the saints aren’t. And I can’t imagine anyone praying *to a friend or family member.
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dolphinlove
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I said praying WITH not TO
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Namesake
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But the plain fact is that lots of Catholics even some on this web site say they pray to Mary. Lots and lots. Must be true, eh?
And when you pray the Hail Mary, how can that language be a prayer *with Mary?
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R_not
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sorry dolphinlove if I made a pest of myself.I know, ive just repeated myself another 3 times on here, no matter how easy you describe it, some people just dont get it, because they dont want to understand for fear they might actually follow Gods one true church and find out the religion they follow is false…
Now the ones born to islam are so brainwashed they probably do believe it is the one true faith. The converts - I don’t know, I cannot explain how they can fall for it since they have all the resources to find out about it and what it has done to people.
I know more who were born to it that have left over and above the famous ones such as Walid Shoebat, Hirsi Ali, etc though so it shows us that many are not swallowing islam and many are seeing the light through the night. (I always find it ironic that islam has the symbols of the night.)
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hamba2han
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The following is the actual question that I asked:
Are there any “moderate” Catholics on these boards who would categorically say that this is an act of evil which directly contravenes one of the Ten Commandments never to bow down to statues and graven images?
Do you see the word ‘pray’ anywhere in my question??
Exodus 20:3–5
3 Do not have any other gods before me.
4 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me,
And as you can see, the Ten Commandments gives a stern warning to the faithful not to bow down to statues and graven images.
And so, if someone does indeed bow down to a statue, do Catholics agree that it clearly contravenes the Ten Commandments and is therefore an evil act?
A simple ‘Yes’ or ‘No’ answer would be so very much appreciated.
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Namesake
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“Praying very hard to St. Joseph for your success!”
That is a quote from a very recent post on this web site. It’s very common.
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dolphinlove
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My dear friend, you are not making a pest of yourself at all…:hug1:
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dolphinlove
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You having fun with this word play arent you?
Again, when people on this site say they are praying ‘to’ the saints, its praying ‘with’ them.
Have you ever made a request to someone to pray for you? Its exactly the same thing. You are requesting that person to pray to God on your behalf for help, praying to the saints is exactly the same thing.
When you ask a friend to pray for you to God, they are requesting what your intentions are on your behalf.
When they say praying ‘to’ the saints, its because those saints have passed onto heaven and by praying its making contact with them to pray WITH us. Basically, its like making a phone call to the saints to ask them, its nothing more, its not worshipping them and its not praying ‘to’ them as we pray ‘to’ God. Do you get the difference now?
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dolphinlove
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Yeah, as i explained in the last post, requesting him pray to God on this persons behalf.
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Namesake
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You are parsing words now. Words have meaning and we all ought to try to be accurate. The quote I presented wasn’t at all unusual and it clearly says the person was praying to a saint (and I believe that is the case). If Catholics mean with when they say to, well that ought to change so it’s more clear. But more to the point, I believe that lots of Catholics really do pray to Mary and saints. That isn’t a good thing.
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Namesake
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Maybe Catholics ought to be a bit more careful unless they don’t mind being characterized as praying to Mary and saints. I assert that lots of Catholics go against Church teaching and actually pray to and even worship Mary and saints. I know it because I talk to those types all the time.
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Charlie_Zeaiter
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Hello hamba2han,
I think you’re confusing religious art and manners with idolatry. Maybe you should contemplate that thought when you run your circles around the Ka’bah in Mecca.
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Namesake
Guest
Will a prayer to a saint be more effective than a prayer directly to God? If not, why involve the saint when the object of the prayer is something a person wants (in this case a certain job). And who really believes that God is involved in getting a person a certain job. Ridiculous!
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rikkk1958
Guest
This statement is for sister amy,
You have explained well regarding God to be forgiving and merciful and it is true one can be deterred to commit sin if a punishement is in placed. The question here is about the teaching in quran where God’s mercy and forgiveness does not make sense. Mohammed clearly made a very strong statement about killing those who are unbelievers and I don’t think being an unbeliever can be subjected to such extreme punishment. Even if you do not take this literally, the whole story of Muhammed is just focus on hate. Mohammed is implying in this case that God is not merciful and forgiving. Wheras, Jesus had spoken about this otherwise. Love your neighbor as yourself. The only people he spoke against were the scribes and pharisses who but not their religion. He forgave everyone including the gentiles and samaritans but never asked them to believe but have shown miracles and His words to live by. Compared to muhammed, Jesus showed a very different approach, more Godly in poise and in Words. No comparison at all in every ways. My wish is that sister amy, planten, and any muslims here in this forum to come to their senses and accept to believe the truth. Let Jesus Christ come in to your life.
You have explained well regarding God to be forgiving and merciful and it is true one can be deterred to commit sin if a punishement is in placed. The question here is about the teaching in quran where God’s mercy and forgiveness does not make sense. Mohammed clearly made a very strong statement about killing those who are unbelievers and I don’t think being an unbeliever can be subjected to such extreme punishment. Even if you do not take this literally, the whole story of Muhammed is just focus on hate. Mohammed is implying in this case that God is not merciful and forgiving. Wheras, Jesus had spoken about this otherwise. Love your neighbor as yourself. The only people he spoke against were the scribes and pharisses who but not their religion. He forgave everyone including the gentiles and samaritans but never asked them to believe but have shown miracles and His words to live by. Compared to muhammed, Jesus showed a very different approach, more Godly in poise and in Words. No comparison at all in every ways. My wish is that sister amy, planten, and any muslims here in this forum to come to their senses and accept to believe the truth. Let Jesus Christ come in to your life.
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dzheremi
Guest
I am new to Catholicism, but whenever I have seen or heard anyone pray while invoking the name of a saint, it has always been in the form of “____ (saint’s name), pray for me/us that i/we may…” or something similar, never praying as though the saint is God, only that the saint may also pray TO God.
I can’t say I completely understand it, since it isn’t something I was raised with so it doesn’t make any sort of intuitive sense to me, but at the same time I can’t see anything wrong with it.
I find the objection from Muslims to the presence of statues or icons rather odd, as well. I have seen many photos of Muslims in Iran, for instance, carrying with them photos of Imam Khomeini in rememberence of him during his exile or after his death. No doubt those Muslims carried the photos as a way of venerating the Imam as one of God’s chosen men, and perhaps proclaiming that he is a good example to them of how to better follow Allah. They may not kneel before pictures in recognition of him and his good work and lifestyle, but if a Catholic does so in veneration of a saint in recognition of their good works, lives, and examples, then I don’t see why this is different. The intention is the same in both cases.
It is not the same as worship. No one in Catholicism thinks that any saint is to be worshipped in the manner that we worship our Saviour Jesus Christ, just as I’m sure no Muslim would think it appropriate to pray to any Imam like Khomeini in the same way they pray to Allah.
I can’t say I completely understand it, since it isn’t something I was raised with so it doesn’t make any sort of intuitive sense to me, but at the same time I can’t see anything wrong with it.
I find the objection from Muslims to the presence of statues or icons rather odd, as well. I have seen many photos of Muslims in Iran, for instance, carrying with them photos of Imam Khomeini in rememberence of him during his exile or after his death. No doubt those Muslims carried the photos as a way of venerating the Imam as one of God’s chosen men, and perhaps proclaiming that he is a good example to them of how to better follow Allah. They may not kneel before pictures in recognition of him and his good work and lifestyle, but if a Catholic does so in veneration of a saint in recognition of their good works, lives, and examples, then I don’t see why this is different. The intention is the same in both cases.
It is not the same as worship. No one in Catholicism thinks that any saint is to be worshipped in the manner that we worship our Saviour Jesus Christ, just as I’m sure no Muslim would think it appropriate to pray to any Imam like Khomeini in the same way they pray to Allah.
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