Islam is BAD!!!

  • Thread starter Thread starter Irene72
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
hamba2han said:
The following is the actual question that I asked:

Are there any “moderate” Catholics on these boards who would categorically say that this is an act of evil which directly contravenes one of the Ten Commandments never to bow down to statues and graven images?

Do you see the word ‘pray’ anywhere in my question??

Exodus 20:3–5
3 Do not have any other gods before me.
4 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me,

And as you can see, the Ten Commandments gives a stern warning to the faithful not to bow down to statues and graven images.

And so, if someone does indeed bow down to a statue, do Catholics agree that it clearly contravenes the Ten Commandments and is therefore an evil act?

A simple ‘Yes’ or ‘No’ answer would be so very much appreciated.
Click to expand...
There is no way to answer yes or no with this, and you know it. You simply highlight a part of a paragraph without acknowledging the rest of what it says.

It says:
3 Do not have any other gods before me.
4 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 You shall not bow down to them

The part you highlighted is a continuation of the other parts of the paragraph. It specifically says we shall not bow down to false Gods and any other Gods.
By kneeling to the statues, we are not bowing down to them as a ‘god’ or ‘gods’. We are bowing to them to pray with us. Its for religious purposes only!
What you are asking us to do is what you do, take certain parts out of the bible and twist them for your own purposes.
If you read the whole thing and tried to understand what its truly saying, you would better understand why we pray the way we pray.

Now lets get back to a point i have raised with you many times, why do you pray to a big black rock?
 
Namesake said:
You are parsing words now. Words have meaning and we all ought to try to be accurate. The quote I presented wasn’t at all unusual and it clearly says the person was praying to a saint (and I believe that is the case). If Catholics mean with when they say to, well that ought to change so it’s more clear. But more to the point, I believe that lots of Catholics really do pray to Mary and saints. That isn’t a good thing.
Click to expand...
Yes, we do pray to saints to pray WITH us.
I was explaining the way i was so you would understand it better.
You can appreciate and understand why i get frustrated and have to explain it 50 different ways to people.
I think my explanation to you was very clear.
 
dzheremi said:
I am new to Catholicism, but whenever I have seen or heard anyone pray while invoking the name of a saint, it has always been in the form of “____ (saint’s name), pray for me/us that i/we may…” or something similar, never praying as though the saint is God, only that the saint may also pray TO God.

I can’t say I completely understand it, since it isn’t something I was raised with so it doesn’t make any sort of intuitive sense to me, but at the same time I can’t see anything wrong with it.

I find the objection from Muslims to the presence of statues or icons rather odd, as well. I have seen many photos of Muslims in Iran, for instance, carrying with them photos of Imam Khomeini in rememberence of him during his exile or after his death. No doubt those Muslims carried the photos as a way of venerating the Imam as one of God’s chosen men, and perhaps proclaiming that he is a good example to them of how to better follow Allah. They may not kneel before pictures in recognition of him and his good work and lifestyle, but if a Catholic does so in veneration of a saint in recognition of their good works, lives, and examples, then I don’t see why this is different. The intention is the same in both cases.

It is not the same as worship. No one in Catholicism thinks that any saint is to be worshipped in the manner that we worship our Saviour Jesus Christ, just as I’m sure no Muslim would think it appropriate to pray to any Imam like Khomeini in the same way they pray to Allah.
Click to expand...
The problem is dzheremi people of other religions cannot understand the difference between praying with and worshipping.
Im going to post this link here for anyone who wants to read further into it, as ive already repeated myself about 5 times this morning with the same thing.
Here is a further explanation: here
 
Namesake said:
Will a prayer to a saint be more effective than a prayer directly to God? If not, why involve the saint when the object of the prayer is something a person wants (in this case a certain job). And who really believes that God is involved in getting a person a certain job. Ridiculous!
Click to expand...
Answer me this, have you ever prayed for anyone?
 
dolphinlove said:
Answer me this, have you ever prayed for anyone?
Click to expand...
Yes. I pray to God, no one else is involved because He is the one who controls the universe, not Mary, not saints. I would never pray to someone like a saint to get the message to God for me, or to make my prayer more acceptable to God. I reckon God is powerful enough to not need the help of a saint, or Mary to hear my prayer. Or is there something more than God’s love for us?
 
Namesake said:
Yes. I pray to God, no one else is involved because He is the one who controls the universe, not Mary, not saints. I would never pray to someone like a saint to get the message to God for me, or to make my prayer more acceptable to God. I reckon God is powerful enough to not need the help of a saint, or Mary to hear my prayer. Or is there something more than God’s love for us?
Click to expand...
You didnt answer my question, do you pray for other people?
 
dolphinlove said:
… The part you highlighted is a continuation of the other parts of the paragraph. It specifically says we shall not bow down to false Gods and any other Gods…
Click to expand...
Perhaps this is a clearer verse:

"Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God." … Leviticus 26:1

I would think that “any” means exactly that i.e. any image and that it is strictly forbidden for the faithful to bow down to any statues or graven images.
 
Who ever said that the saints control the universe or anything like that? That is not Catholic teaching.

It is not God who “needs” the help of the saints, but us who ask for it. Remember that before their canonization, the saints were all people, like you and I. They were exemplary people, so it makes sense that we should want to venerate them and request their help in following the Lord as they have.

Is there really a problem with any of the above?
 
hamba2han said:
Perhaps this is a clearer verse:

"Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God." … Leviticus 26:1

I would think that “any” means exactly that i.e. any image and that it is strictly forbidden for the faithful to bow down to any statues or graven images.
Click to expand...
No, you misunderstand the meaning. Here is the talk about false Gods, how many times do we have to explain this to you???
There is a difference between a false God/Gods and making them into idols to making statues of the saints. We have statues of the saints because we respect them and remember what they have done for us. Do you not see the difference???

Now again, tell me why you worship a big black rock???
 
Sister_Amy said:
:ehh: I wasn’t aware that Hamas or the president of Iran were spokespeople for Islam.

What seems to be bothering you, jen fla, is just politics. Not religion. 🙂
Click to expand...
Can there be Hare Krishna or Baghwan, or Scientology, or Mormonism, or Transcendental Meditation in Mecca?
 
Namesake said:
I did answer. Yes.

I gotta quit this thread because of terrible drift.
Click to expand...
No you didnt, you said you prayed to God, there was no mention of praying for other people.

So by praying for that person, are you ‘worshipping’ that person?

So now you have said yes, you understand why we pray to the saints for help, not to worship them, not to make Gods out of them.
Im glad your stopping, because i dont know how many times i can answer the same question over and over again…
Back to Ham…
 
dolphinlove said:
No you didnt, you said you prayed to God, there was no mention of praying for other people.

So by praying for that person, are you ‘worshipping’ that person?

So now you have said yes, you understand why we pray to the saints for help, not to worship them, not to make Gods out of them.
Im glad your stopping, because i dont know how many times i can answer the same question over and over again…
Back to Ham…
Click to expand...
Look back at my answer. The first word was yes. That means yes. You could look it up. Here it is for your edification.

“Yes. I pray to God, no one else is involved because He is the one who controls the universe, not Mary, not saints. I would never pray to someone like a saint to get the message to God for me, or to make my prayer more acceptable to God. I reckon God is powerful enough to not need the help of a saint, or Mary to hear my prayer. Or is there something more than God’s love for us?”
 
Namesake said:
You are parsing words now. Words have meaning and we all ought to try to be accurate. The quote I presented wasn’t at all unusual and it clearly says the person was praying to a saint (and I believe that is the case). If Catholics mean with when they say to, well that ought to change so it’s more clear. But more to the point, I believe that lots of Catholics really do pray to Mary and saints. That isn’t a good thing.
Click to expand...
Too bad you are not as serious about it as we are asked to be. This is just more deflection as to what ‘moderates’ do. They know exactly what the koran commands them to do - kill and torture, or subjugate, infidels if they don’t convert to islam.

I notice that there has been a rise in the attacks against what muslims perceive Catholics as doing. If this is so, why do you also deny that any Christian - even non-Catholics - you are also supposed to kill, convert or subjugate? They usually don’t have statues in their churches or gathering places. But, the command for muslims is the same - the ‘moderates’ are to support those who kill and subjugate, or force to convert through deception and/or intimidation.
 
R_not said:
Too bad you are not as serious about it as we are asked to be. This is just more deflection as to what ‘moderates’ do. They know exactly what the koran commands them to do - kill and torture, or subjugate, infidels if they don’t convert to islam.

I notice that there has been a rise in the attacks against what muslims perceive Catholics as doing. If this is so, why do you also deny that any Christian - even non-Catholics - you are also supposed to kill, convert or subjugate? They usually don’t have statues in their churches or gathering places. But, the command for muslims is the same - the ‘moderates’ are to support those who kill and subjugate, or force to convert through deception and/or intimidation.
Click to expand...
Whata crock!!! I’m not a moderate Muslim. In fact I am not any kind of Muslim. You should feel very embarrassed. Shame on you.

Peace.
 
Originally Posted by Sister Amy
I wasn’t aware that Hamas or the president of Iran were spokespeople for Islam.

What seems to be bothering you, jen fla, is just politics. Not religion.

By continually denying anyone to be in ‘charge’ of islam just makes it easier for the masses of ‘moderates’ to keep deflecting and deceiving of what islam is all about. This way not a single one of them has to be held responsible for what their jihadists do even though they support them via the muslim charities and through the deception of what they tell us.

It is all so very convenient for them to also claim victimhood after their own cause violence in so many areas around this globe against non-muslims.
 
Namesake said:
Look back at my answer. The first word was yes. That means yes. You could look it up. Here it is for your edification.

“Yes. I pray to God, no one else is involved because He is the one who controls the universe, not Mary, not saints. I would never pray to someone like a saint to get the message to God for me, or to make my prayer more acceptable to God. I reckon God is powerful enough to not need the help of a saint, or Mary to hear my prayer. Or is there something more than God’s love for us?”
Click to expand...
You said yes. i pray to God.
By saying this answer suggests you are praying to God alone, you didnt elaborate on also praying for other people as well.
 
Namesake said:
Whata crock!!! I’m not a moderate Muslim. In fact I am not any kind of Muslim. You should feel very embarrassed. Shame on you.

Peace.
Click to expand...
I just quoted the wrong post, I apologize. I do make mistakes sometimes - but not about what islam is all about.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top