Islam is BAD!!!

[inJESUS]

That kafir (of Quran you are referrring) is not any other Christian or Jew or a nonbeliever. Have you not read what the Quran says about those Christians and Jews who pray, worship one God and do good things? Are you out of your mind? Would you mind qouting those verses too if you really have read them?

harrypot is obviously banned but here is my answer to others who might be wondering about this seemingly contradiction in the Quran. No it is not a contradiction, nor was Muhammad talking about the orthodox Christians who will rot in hell for our belief in Jesus as the Son of God nor was he talking about the jews who rejected the Messiah. Muhammad was praising the Jews and “Christians” of the sect he converted to, actually the Jewish-Christians, the forefathers of the sect he developed…the confusion stems in Muhammad’s use of the word Nasara for both orthodox Christians and cults …he never used the word Masihiyeen who happened to be the orthodox Christians of his time…the nasara of Muhammad;s time were Jewish-Christian Judaizers who held the Mosaic Law above Jesus’ law .

 

[inJESUS]

The scholars are still the authority in Islam, the problem with Islam is that the common Muslim has no regard for true Islamic knowledge and its source. And this is due to several reasons.

no common Muslim will be able to understand Islam fully without the scholars. Who are the scholars you are refering to if some fatwas from SA contradict fatwas of Egypt for example?

Understand. From a spiritual prespective, I look at what the Muslim jizya is to the non-muslim, is what colonization is to the Muslims. It is a case of what goes around comes around. This is a spiritual law, do unto others as you would want them done unto you. So the Islamic Nation is literally being paid back what they have done unto others.

 

[inJESUS]

silouan,

what is your interpretation of Muhammad’s words " people of the book are nothing unless they observe Torah and Injeel"?

does it mean Christians must observe the Mosaic Law?

 

[R_not]

That kafir (of Quran you are referrring) is not any other Christian or Jew or a nonbeliever. Have you not read what the Quran says about those Christians and Jews who pray, worship one God and do good things? Are you out of your mind? Would you mind qouting those verses too if you really have read them?

Why don’t you quote them and then ask yourself why, if they are so ok with those Jews and Christians who pray and do good works are also only considered for death, conversion or subjugation - or is it that you are ok with these three options? Why is it that islam/muslims don’t consider freedom and equality for all such as we in our man-made laws based on Judeo-Christian morals allow? and why are they so intent on replacing our laws that allow freedom and equality for all with their inferior sharia law that only allows for freedom for muslim males?

 

[Silouan]

silouan,

what is your interpretation of Muhammad’s words " people of the book are nothing unless they observe Torah and Injeel"?

does it mean Christians must observe the Mosaic Law?

Jews are nothing unless they follow the Torah.

Christians are nothing unless they follow the Gospel.

That is how I understand the quote.

In Islam, a Messenger is not obligated to follow the previous Messenger. Jesus is considered a Messenger in Islam. Thus according to this logic, a Christian is not obligated to Torah, and I don’t think any upright Islamic scholar would disagree with me on that. The disagreement that a Muslim scholar would have with an modern Christian is whether or not the Christians have the true Gospel of Jesus.

And that is my honest opinion of that.

In Christ,

Silouan

 

[hamba2han]

This is a reminder of what the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) himself said about the eventual fate of Jews and Christians who reject the Message that he has brought to humankind:

"By the One in whose hand my soul is, no Jew or Christian of this community hears about me - that is from the community of people from the time of the Prophet (peace be upon him) until the Day of Judgment - and then does not follow me - or he said does not believe in what I brought - except that he is from the inhabitants of the Hell-fire." [Saheeh Muslim]

 

[Silouan]

no common Muslim will be able to understand Islam fully without the scholars. Who are the scholars you are refering to if some fatwas from SA contradict fatwas of Egypt for example?

 

[inJESUS]

Jews are nothing unless they follow the Torah.

Christians are nothing unless they follow the Gospel.

 

[Silouan]

This is a reminder of what the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) himself said about the eventual fate of Jews and Christians who reject the Message that he has brought to humankind:

"By the One in whose hand my soul is, no Jew or Christian of this community hears about me - that is from the community of people from the time of the Prophet (peace be upon him) until the Day of Judgment - and then does not follow me - or he said does not believe in what I brought - except that he is from the inhabitants of the Hell-fire." [Saheeh Muslim]

My problem with Islam is I don’t see how Muhammad fits into the Judai Christian thought.

Jews nor Christians are expecting a prophet from Ishmael, and the Christians are not awaiting a prophet, but rather the second coming of Christ.

In my eyes, I don’t see Muhammad as a prophet.

In Christ,

Silouan

 

[bob0331]

So I e-mailed, and say, yes there is no evidence of Jesus picking up a sword, but he said, Think not that I come to send peace but a sword. He also told his disciples to sell the garments and to buy swords

What Jesus was implying here was what he was preaching was going to divide the world into followers of him and non followers. This is what is called a metaphor.

 

[Silouan]

don’t people of the book refer to both Jews and Christians at the same time? because the disctinction you gave is not present in the aya…and it is strange that Muslims keep “blaming” us for not following the Mosaic Law… every single Muslim does this and whenever we quote the NT, they quote the Mosaic law in order to defend Muhammad’s teachings and proving our “corruption”, giving a totally blind eye to Jesus’ teachings…if Jesus’ Law is different , why does Muhammad pick and choose randomly from the Mosaic law, things that were only for the Israelite and give a blind eye to Jesus’ law which is supposed to be eternally followed according to OT and NT?

 

[inJESUS]

let me get this straight, if we want to know about a certain ruling, who is the authority? all the above mentionned countries must give a unified ruling? because that is not happening in many cases…a fatwa from SA contradicting a fatwa in Egypt, who is the authority?

I think you missed my point, that is find. It usually happens when I try to explain certain spiritual principles. But we’ll just leave it at that.

please elaborate because i did not understand the analogy between a religious order of humiliation and another one not based on a divine order…

I do not deny the love that Jesus taught and the humility that he taught us, and I do not deny some of his harsher words as well.

I was at a Liturgy and my priest said, “Jesus never picked up a sword.”

So I e-mailed, and say, yes there is no evidence of Jesus picking up a sword, but he said, Think not that I come to send peace but a sword. He also told his disciples to sell the garments and to buy swords.

Jesus also said, Blessed are the peacemakes for they shall be called the Children of God.

So, while we can find contradictory statements between the words of Muhammad, we can also find them among our Lord Jesus Christ.

In Christ,

Silouan

the only difference is that Muhammad and his followers proved the teachings by acts…literal application…where does Jesus or the apostles or the early Christians prove that what Jesus taught was about war or violence or humiliating others? where is the contradiction? are we going to compare a sentence that neither Jesus nor apostles applied in terms of war to all the wars of conquests and humiliations dones by the hands of Muslims?

 

[hamba2han]

My problem with Islam is I don’t see how Muhammad fits into the Judai Christian thought…

It is much better that the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) himself explain his position with regard to the earlier Prophets like Jesus, Moses and Abraham (peace be upon them all).

Abu Huraira reports that the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said:

"My position, in relation to the prophets who came before me, can be explained in the following example: ‘A man erected a building and adorned his edifice with great beauty, but he left an empty niche in the corner, where just one brick was missing. People looked around the building and marveled at its beauty, but wondered why a brick was missing from that niche! I am like unto that one missing brick and I am the last in line of the prophets.’" (Reported by Bukhari and Muslim.)

Therefore, the Message that the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) brought is only a continuation of the revelations brought by earlier Prophets and the deen (way of life) of Islam has been completed and is perfect in the eyes of God as told in Surah 5:3 of the Qur’an:

"This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion."

And since the Creator Himself has said that Islam is the perfect religion for all of humankind and He has indeed promised to preserve it till the Last Day when the world comes to an end, then who are the creations to disagree with Him?

And so you see, the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) does NOT at all fit into the “Judaeo-Christian” thought.

 

[inJESUS]

and it is also obvious for some who understand Islamic theology that Christians don’t have to follow the Torah.

good to know this but then why do they stick to some of the Mosaic laws if Jesus does not teach it? after all they do believe Jesus came after Moses…is the general belief that Allah decided to pick again some of the Mosaic law and disregard Jesus or here were the claim of “corruption” of Jesus’ message pops up?because all Islamic sites blame Christians for not following what the Mosaic law prohibited, and at the same time they oppose many laws of the same Mosaic Law they blame us for not following…there is nothing on the Islamic sites which proves that Christians should not follow it so i’d appreciate it if you have any reference to what you wrote so that we can show it to Muslims who come here, hoping they will believe their scholars and stop telling us the Injeel is corrupt because of the Mosaic law…

 

[inJESUS]

It is much better that the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) himself explain his position with regard to the earlier Prophets like Jesus, Moses and Abraham (peace be upon them all).

Abu Huraira reports that the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said:

 

[Silouan]

And so you see, the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) does NOT at all fit into the “Judaeo-Christian” thought.

Than that is why I don’t see Muhammad as a Prophet.

In Christ,

Silouan

 

[Silouan]

good to know this but then why do they stick to some of the Mosaic laws if Jesus does not teach it?

Muslims do not follow the law of Moses, Muslims follow the law of Muhammad.

Muhammad’s laws resemble the law of Moses on somethings, something Muhammad was lax on, and others Muhammad may have been stricter, but in general I think he was more lenient than Moses.

…there is nothing on the Islamic sites which proves that Christians should not follow it so i’d appreciate it if you have any reference to what you wrote so that we can show it to Muslims who come here, hoping they will believe their scholars and stop telling us the Injeel is corrupt because of the Mosaic law…

I will have to look for a reference for you. Give me time.

I will respond to your other post later, I have to go and study, school starts tomorrow for me.

In Christ,

Silouan

 

[kalnaa]

** That means you have no reply. You are not following jesus. You are just using the name of Jesus. Otherwise you are doing everything against his wishes, even keeping statues, images, models in the church which Jesus and his followers never did.

If you had loved Jesus you would not be tired of giving a reply again.

Besides that, the christians do not follow the lifestyle of Jesus. They do not do what he used to do in the matter of religion and relation to God. What to say about the present day church policy!. It is totally void of the Jesus teachings.**

You keep on asking the same thing again and again. Either you don’t understand what everyone is saying or you are too arrogant.

 

[kalnaa]

Not everyone bows when kissing the Black Stone, little children in particular do not bow because they lack the height to reach the Stone.

Besides, where is it stated in the Ten Commandments that forbids the faithful from kissing stones that are NOT in the form of statues or graven images?

You are really missing the point.

 

[jen_fla]

There is an authority in Islam, but it has been dismantled by colonizism. Correct knowledge in Islam is taken from the people who practice it, it is not taken from books.

The one who told you that, sounds like a person who either took knowledge from a book (reading hadith alone) or took it from some who took knowledge from a book.

It doesn’t sound like the Islam that I was taught. What every Muhammad said or did has a context, and it should be understood in that context.

I understand your point, but I would have to study it in order to make a decision on this particular issue.

I believe traditional Sunni Islam, represents the true Islamic spirit. And it taught by traditional Sunni scholar worldwide, from Yemen, to Syria, Jordan, Egypt, Maurtania, Morocco etc etc.

In traditional Sunni Islam there is an unbroken chain of transmitters of this Islamic knowledge.

There are some so-called Traditional Islamic people, in Lebonan, known as the Habashis, they have been condemned by all the Traditional scholars worldwide as being heretics, they are a reactionary group, who reacted to the influx of Wahabism into that region. This hateful Islam has its roots in Wahabism, a group who is responsible for the killing of not only non-Muslims, but Muslims as well. Wahabism has spread because of the Saudi Oil billions.

In regards to quotes from the Quran and Hadith. Everything has a context and it must be understood in that context.

In regards to the first quote, rejection of faith is the worst of sin. Even Christians believe that. You are literally turning away from God, so this is what makes disbelievers the worst of creatures, because they have consciously turned away from God, turned away from the truth. It doesn’t mean non-believers are bad people. It means that they are the worst of creature in the sight of God, those who reject faith.

But no where in that verse does it say to hate non-believers.

In regards to the second quote, it means, that Muslim are to fight those who fight them. It does not mean that we intiate fighting with non-believers simply because they are non-believers.

In Christ,

Silouan

may i ask for how long you were a muslim before you converted to Christianity?

If you are a reflection of the teachings of Jesus, than I don’t want to be Christian, because you represent evil in its purist form. ** If you can prove to me that your way is the way of Christ,** I will leave Christianity.

In Christ,

Silouan

r_not has done her homework and is speaking out against the violence. i don’t think Jesus would want us to ignore teachings that ask in the name of God to shed another individual’s blood. those that do that are the ones representing evil, not the ones exposing it.

please don’t let her outrage at all the violence she has read about lead you away from Christianity. that does seem a bit odd.

your experience with traditional sunni islam has been more peaceful than what the sunni saudi’s teach, so perhaps maybe you could help out a big western dummy like myself and help me to understand those hadiths i keep posting.

i wish you peace. :hug3: