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paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
It is totally wrong. Islam is not a racial oriented religion and is not againt any race/color/nation. It is against the wrong concepts. I don’t agree with you,
Thanks
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It is totally wrong. Islam is not a racial oriented religion and is not againt any race/color/nation. It is against the wrong concepts. I don’t agree with you,
Thanks
E
Eucharisted
Guest
In the Hadith of the Prophet Muhammad, he said, “Judgment day will not come until the Muslims fight the Jews, and the Muslims will kill the Jews, and then the Jews will hide behind stones or trees, and the stone or the tree will say: Oh Muslim, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him - except for the Gharqad, which is a tree of the Jews.”
The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: There is no prophet between me and him, that is, Jesus (peace_be_upon_him). He will descent (to the earth). When you see him, recognise him: a man of medium height, reddish fair, wearing two light yellow garments, looking as if drops were falling down from his head though it will not be wet. He will fight the people for the cause of Islam. He will break the cross, kill swine, and abolish jizyah. Allah will perish all religions except Islam. He will destroy the Antichrist and will live on the earth for forty years and then he will die. The Muslims will pray over him.
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Muslim_Woman
Guest
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
Salaam/peace
Once a Muslim & a Jew came to the Prophet for justice. Prophet gave verdict in favour of the jew. Then the Muslim requested the jew to go to Omar (ra) to hear what he has to say about the case. The Jew agreed . When Omar (ra) heard about it , he killed that Muslim .
Prophet (p) said , if any Muslim does any wrong to any non-Muslim , I will testify against that Muslim on the last day.
Salaam/peace
Prophet Muhammed (p) predicted about the future . Before the last day , Jesus (p) will return & kill the anti Christ (p) , there will be a fight between believers & followers of anti -Christ (p). It does not mean that Muslims must kill any innocent civilians including Jews now or do any injustice to them.
Once a Muslim & a Jew came to the Prophet for justice. Prophet gave verdict in favour of the jew. Then the Muslim requested the jew to go to Omar (ra) to hear what he has to say about the case. The Jew agreed . When Omar (ra) heard about it , he killed that Muslim .
Prophet (p) said , if any Muslim does any wrong to any non-Muslim , I will testify against that Muslim on the last day.
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paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
It is just a misconception of our friend Euharisted that:
At least I don’t see any.
Islam is not a racial oriented religion and is not against any race/color/nation and respects every human being. It is only against the wrong concepts.
Please quote from Quran to establish your viewpoint.
I think it were not the Muslims who did the holocaust.
The Second Coming 1835-1908 had refuted such misconceived thoughts; of the CatholicsProtestantsJWs and also of the TraditionalMuslims. In fact, the Advent of Second Coming was necessitated to eradicate such wrong thoughts about Religion. Please read the “introduction” of his book “Jesus in India”: alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/intro.html. I only give two excerpts from it:
A Jain or a Buddhist is afraid of and avoids killing even a mosquito or a flea, but, alas! there are many among us Muslims who, while they kill an innocent man or commit wanton murder, are not afraid of the powerful God, who rates human life higher than that of all the animals. What is this callousness and cruelty and want of sympathy due to? It is due to this - that from their very childhood, stories and anecdotes and wrong views of the doctrine of Jihad are dinned into their ears and inculcated into their hearts, the result being that gradually they become morally dead and cease to feel the heinousness of their hateful actions; nay, rather, the man who murders another man unawares and thus brings ruin to the murdered man’s family thinks that he has done a meritorious deed; or rather, that he has made the most of an opportunity to win favour with his community.” Unquote
It is just a misconception of our friend Euharisted that:
Quran is the primary source of guidance for Muslims. Islam/Quran/Muhammad are peaceful and humanitarian, there are no instructions in Quran to kill Jews indiscriminately and for nothing.
At least I don’t see any.
Islam is not a racial oriented religion and is not against any race/color/nation and respects every human being. It is only against the wrong concepts.
Please quote from Quran to establish your viewpoint.
I think it were not the Muslims who did the holocaust.
The Second Coming 1835-1908 had refuted such misconceived thoughts; of the CatholicsProtestantsJWs and also of the TraditionalMuslims. In fact, the Advent of Second Coming was necessitated to eradicate such wrong thoughts about Religion. Please read the “introduction” of his book “Jesus in India”: alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/intro.html. I only give two excerpts from it:
- “I have written this book, so that, by adducing proofs from established facts, from conclusive historical evidence of proved value and from ancient documents of non-Muslims, I might remove the serious misconceptions which are current among Muslims and among most Christian sects regarding the earlier and the later life of Jesus (on whom be peace) - misconceptions, the dangerous implications of which have not only injured and destroyed the conception of Divine Unity, but the unwholesome and poisonous influence of which has for long been noticed in the morals of the Muslims of this country.
A Jain or a Buddhist is afraid of and avoids killing even a mosquito or a flea, but, alas! there are many among us Muslims who, while they kill an innocent man or commit wanton murder, are not afraid of the powerful God, who rates human life higher than that of all the animals. What is this callousness and cruelty and want of sympathy due to? It is due to this - that from their very childhood, stories and anecdotes and wrong views of the doctrine of Jihad are dinned into their ears and inculcated into their hearts, the result being that gradually they become morally dead and cease to feel the heinousness of their hateful actions; nay, rather, the man who murders another man unawares and thus brings ruin to the murdered man’s family thinks that he has done a meritorious deed; or rather, that he has made the most of an opportunity to win favour with his community.” Unquote
- “Let it be known that most Muslims and Christians believe that Jesus (on whom be peace) went alive to the heavens; both these people have believed for a long time that Jesus (on whom be peace) is still alive in the heavens, and will sometime in the latter days come down to the earth. The difference in their views, i.e. the view of the followers of Islam and that of the Christians, is only this, that the Christians believe that Jesus (on whom be peace) died on the Cross, was resurrected, and went to the heavens in his earthly body, seated himself on the right hand of his Father, and will come to the earth in the latter days for judgment; they also say that the Creator and the Master of the world is this Jesus the Messiah and no one else; he it is who, in the latter days of the world, will descend to the earth with a glorious descent to award punishment and reward; then, all who will not believe in him or his mother as God, will be hauled up and thrown into hell, where weeping and wailing will be their lot.” Unquote
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The_Preacher
Guest
Lets be fair. History is chock-a-block with jerks who have run up their flag and gone to war for their personal interests proclaiming that they are doing God’s work. My father left me a WWII souvineer. It’s a Nazi belt buckle that proclaims" Got Mit Us!" (God is with us) It’s a cheep and damedable abuse of religion. Just look at what’s happening in Irac right now. The police just shut down a public nusance of a neighbor who had his lawn festooned wth crosses and American flags, and blaired out “God Bless America” and “The Battle Hymn of the Republic” over loud speakers at all hours. We’ve all got them. At Thanksgiving it would do us all well to remember that the “Pilgram Fathers” came here because they coudn’t get away with burning “Papists” in England.
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paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
Today I posted in another thread, which is also relevant here:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=4480851&postcount=20
Muhammad never went with the purpose of learning there, if at all he went sometimes there. He went with a trading group for sometime; but he was a docile person always open to everybody to listen things as they told. I think that is it only.
I have the impression that Quran has a style of narrating belief of other denominations of Jews/Christians; using the same words (verbatim) they believed, then elsewhere Quran mentions the principles under which these are to be understood or interpreted.
Those who take them literally are not correct; like raising of the dead, Jesus talking in infancy, Jesus breathing into clay toys and making them to fly, or giving eyes to the mother-blinds, so on and so forth; correct if taken metaphorically and totally wrong if taken literally. Quran mentions of them as the mythical beliefs of the different denominations of the Christians not as a Islamic beliefs.
If all these things have been mentioned in Christian books later not included in the Bible; that only confirms that Quran was right; Early Christians did have such wrong beliefs.
This in itself, to me, is a proof of truth-ness of Quran.
Please don’t mind.
Thanks
Today I posted in another thread, which is also relevant here:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=4480851&postcount=20
Hi
Muhammad never went with the purpose of learning there, if at all he went sometimes there. He went with a trading group for sometime; but he was a docile person always open to everybody to listen things as they told. I think that is it only.
I have the impression that Quran has a style of narrating belief of other denominations of Jews/Christians; using the same words (verbatim) they believed, then elsewhere Quran mentions the principles under which these are to be understood or interpreted.
Those who take them literally are not correct; like raising of the dead, Jesus talking in infancy, Jesus breathing into clay toys and making them to fly, or giving eyes to the mother-blinds, so on and so forth; correct if taken metaphorically and totally wrong if taken literally. Quran mentions of them as the mythical beliefs of the different denominations of the Christians not as a Islamic beliefs.
If all these things have been mentioned in Christian books later not included in the Bible; that only confirms that Quran was right; Early Christians did have such wrong beliefs.
This in itself, to me, is a proof of truth-ness of Quran.
Please don’t mind.
Thanks
R
ralphinal
Guest
So Christian ALWAYS beleived that Jesus died on the Cross and rose again and ALWAYS beleived that Jesus was God in the Trinty of the Father, SOn and Holy Spirit. Why did the Qur’an get that wrong?
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paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
This thread has discussed in length verse 3:50 of Quran.
I will give here Ahmadia peaceful view point of the same, where not only diction of the words has been researched but a good interpretation of the verse has been also given, to bridge gaps between the Traditional Muslims and the Christians and/or mythical and real has been discerned.
http://www.alislam.org/quran/tafseer/?page=399®ion=E1&CR=
This thread has discussed in length verse 3:50 of Quran.
I will give here Ahmadia peaceful view point of the same, where not only diction of the words has been researched but a good interpretation of the verse has been also given, to bridge gaps between the Traditional Muslims and the Christians and/or mythical and real has been discerned.
http://www.alislam.org/quran/tafseer/?page=399®ion=E1&CR=
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paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
Sorry, I could not insert an image in the previous post from :alislam.org/quran/tafseer/?page=399®ion=E1&CR=
Anybody please help to insert the image. I inserted the image url but could not succeed.
Thanks
Sorry, I could not insert an image in the previous post from :alislam.org/quran/tafseer/?page=399®ion=E1&CR=
Anybody please help to insert the image. I inserted the image url but could not succeed.
Thanks
T
The_Preacher
Guest
The Quran got it wrong from it’s inception. What it has always been to be a Christian is best summerized by the findings of the Catholic Councils which have through the ages conveened all the bishops of the known world to correct, refute and dam to hell for all eturnity error by the Office of the Keys invested by the risen Christ in Peter, the first Pope and his successors (What you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven and what you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven). The easiest to understand of the findings of these Councils is the Appostle’s Creed which is what Christians have believed from Pentecaust, at the Christ’s assention into heaven, and what must be believed to be a Christian and saved. It summerized the belieef of the Apostles themselves, hence all Christians from the first. “I believe in God the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth. I believe in Jesus Christ his only son our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Vergin Mary, suffered under Pontious Pilot, was crusified dead and burried. He decended into hell (meaning here not a place of punishment or torment, but mearly the abode of the dead tleaing no doubt that Christ Jesus had in fact died). On the third day he assended from the dead. He assended into heaven and is seated on the right hand of the Father. From thence he shall come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church, the Communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body and the life everlasting.” This is and has been the essence of the Holy Faith from the beginning. In fact, one who was totally ignorant of the Bible, who had never even heard of it or encountered the Church would be a Christian and have eternal life if he or she believed only this creed. Baptism is necessary, but the Church recognizes Baptism of Intention" according to Christ Jesus’ Grace and intentions. To reject any part of this creed is to be dammed to hell, and the creeds were formulated to make that stark fact manefestly clear. Just about anything else can and will be forgiven through the Grace of the Christ’s sacrefice and triumpth.
As to Muhamad’s being in any way timed, senditive or shy: GET REAL! Historically he reduced the defences of and took Mecca by the most bloody battle and sumerally slauttered his opponents. To make ends meet before he did that he was a desert briggand murdering and plundering caravans. He had no mercy on anyone; man, woman or child and no respect for human life or suffering except when it would garner the respect of those he wished to impress in which case he was Santa Clause (forgive me St. Nicolas of Smyra). He was in short; a tipical, traditional Arab war lord. A desert briggand. The Kelif of Bagdad found in this all he needed to fabricate a religion that would serve the Ottimon Empire when he had the Quran cobbled together.
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canan_altun
Guest
Quran teaches that Jesus was a good profit as well as many others, but it teaches about Muhammed bean the only one who God pleased with, as a former muslim, i found the truth now, i found out why Islam kept the truth from us as a muslims, i hope to our Heavenly Father that rest of muslims would find out our real Father as well, God bless everyone.
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Hadi
Guest
Welcome to this forum…
" but it teaches about Muhammed bean the only one who God pleased with"
this is completely wrong…where did learn that from…
Also,can you tell us a little about you,where did you grow up and how did you become a Christian …
J
jakasaki
Guest
Are you refering to being “the seal” of prophets here?
How did you find the truth - what made you turn away from islam? Inquiring minds want to know…
← meAgain, how?
Indeed and amen to that!
And you as well…
Welcome to the forum - looking forward to reading your posts…
And like Hadi mentioned, please intruduce yourself.
Thanks!
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ZAKI
Guest
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Bob_Crowley
Guest
Mary was a virgin when she conceived. Joseph took her in marriage after being warned by the angel that the baby was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit. She was not unmarried.
The first miracle recorded in Scripture was at the Wedding at Cana. This also set Christ on the way to the cross since rumours would have spread immediately. However the fact that Mary said “Do whatever he tells you” indicates she had some prior experience of Christ’s abilities. What they were we do not know.
However the business of making a clay bird and then bidding it fly is out of keeping with Christ’s miracles. There is a certain family style - a storm is stilled, a dead man comes back to life, bread becomes more bread, water is turned into wine, fish into more fish.
These are by and large things that happen in nature, which God designed HImself. Storms grow quiet, fish breed to give more fish, the grape and the sun turn water into wine, a body heals itself in most cases.
By contrast the business of the Christ turning clay into a bird is frivolous. THis story comes out of the heretical gnostic tradtion. In fact Islam owes a considerable amount to gnosticism, if one of my sources is correct. Andthe same source stated to me that generally the gnostics didn’t treat women very well. That’s why today women in hardline Islamic nations are treated as second class citizens.
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Bob_Crowley
Guest
Lifted from another web site -
"The Gnostic attitude towards women, therefore, was exceedingly negative, portraying all forms of evil as “becoming female” and even going as far as the following from the (gnostic) Gospel of Thomas:
Simon Peter said to them, “Let Mary leave us, for women are not worthy of life.”
Jesus said, “I myself shall lead her in order to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every woman who will make herself male will enter the kingdom of heaven.”
These concepts are far from Scriptural and demonstrate the permeation of Greek philosophy into the Gnostic theological system."
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trdchubi
Guest
Yes come to think of it, if this were true,(as if 
) do you think Jesus respects life more compare to that apostate, self proclaim “profit” — who ransacked kafirs that turn away from his cause.
This specific gnostic gospel may be heretical, but it sure did get something right (somehow) out of its fabricated writings — Jesus was a Life Giver and not a mass murderer.
) do you think Jesus respects life more compare to that apostate, self proclaim “profit” — who ransacked kafirs that turn away from his cause.This specific gnostic gospel may be heretical, but it sure did get something right (somehow
) out of its fabricated writings — Jesus was a Life Giver and not a mass murderer.
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mkhan901
Guest
Roman Catholics believe in the perpetual virginity of Mary as opposed to Protestants who believe she had other kids after Christ(as).
The argument Protestants bring against the perpetual virginity is that it is not implied in the canonical scripture and take the verse about the “brethren” to literally mean actual brothers. Roman Catholics intepret that not to mean the literal brothers in light of the tradition of the perpetual virginity.
The earliest reference to the perpetual virginity of Mary is in the Infancy Gospel of James which is a 2nd century source that is not included in the canon and rejected as apocrypha yet you accept that story while rejecting other material in the apocryphal gospels. You don’t reject the apocrypha to be 100% false.
The Islamic position on all the “Gospels” is that there can be some truth in them and some falsehood in them. None of them can be said to be 100% true nor 100% false, rather we judge according to Qur’an and Sunnah. So if Qur’an mentions a story from an apocryphal gospel, we believe that story to be true just as if Qur’an mentions a story from one of the 4 canonical gospels (which It also does), we accept that story to be true.
So Qur’an is wrong because It has a story from an apocryphal gospel, but Roman Catholics are right if a different story from an apocryphal gospel is part of their “Sacred Tradition?”
Would Roman Catholic apologists kindly explain this double standard?
The argument Protestants bring against the perpetual virginity is that it is not implied in the canonical scripture and take the verse about the “brethren” to literally mean actual brothers. Roman Catholics intepret that not to mean the literal brothers in light of the tradition of the perpetual virginity.
The earliest reference to the perpetual virginity of Mary is in the Infancy Gospel of James which is a 2nd century source that is not included in the canon and rejected as apocrypha yet you accept that story while rejecting other material in the apocryphal gospels. You don’t reject the apocrypha to be 100% false.
The Islamic position on all the “Gospels” is that there can be some truth in them and some falsehood in them. None of them can be said to be 100% true nor 100% false, rather we judge according to Qur’an and Sunnah. So if Qur’an mentions a story from an apocryphal gospel, we believe that story to be true just as if Qur’an mentions a story from one of the 4 canonical gospels (which It also does), we accept that story to be true.
So Qur’an is wrong because It has a story from an apocryphal gospel, but Roman Catholics are right if a different story from an apocryphal gospel is part of their “Sacred Tradition?”
Would Roman Catholic apologists kindly explain this double standard?
B
Bob_Crowley
Guest
We judge the Quran in the light of Scripture and Church tradition. Only one of us can be right. We think we’re right. You think you’re right. But one of us is wrong.
From “When did belief in the Virgin Birth begin” by Bishop Fulton Sheen,
""The Apostles Creed, which was an accepted formula in the Church around the year 100 (thus predating the Apocraphyl Gospel of James) states “…conceived of the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary.” The truths expressed in the Creed were essential for entrance ino the Church…
Ignatius of Antioch (who lived within seventy years of the life of Our Lord), wrote :“Our God, Jesus Christ, was conceived of the Holy Ghost … and was truly born of a virgin.”
In other words belief in the Virgin Mary was part of the church before either the writing of the Canonical Gospels or the heretical Apocraphyl Gospels. Islam got its belief in the Virgin Mary from Christianity, full stop.
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