Islam question on the "black stone"

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rben20

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The Hajarul Aswad as I understand is a rock that the muslims believe is from paradise and thus pre-creation. It was once white but turned black because of people’s sin according to the “prophet” Muhammad who also claimed its divine origin. Isn’t it obvious now that this black rock is a meteorite that fell from space? Besides, how can something pre-creation be material now if the divine is external to matter?
 
Because Mohammed needed something physical to worship, I guess. (I only use the term worship because that is what they call “veneration” when non-Muslims do it. I must assume it is because they do not understand the concept of veneration which means they are worshipping the stone).
 
rben20 said:
The Hajarul Aswad as I understand is a rock that the muslims believe is from paradise and thus pre-creation. It was once white but turned black because of people’s sin according to the “prophet” Muhammad who also claimed its divine origin. Isn’t it obvious now that this black rock is a meteorite that fell from space?
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although it’s islamic tradition that the stone was originally pure and dazzling white, which turned black because of the sins of the people . but actually i’m not sure if it was coming from hadeeth (words of prophet ) . so i’m not sure actualy what is the source of this tradition , may be i’m wrong but actually i searched and find nothing from sayings of mohammed about this tradition

as for answering your question

Islamic tradition holds that the Stone fell from Heaven to show Adam and Eve where to build an altar, which became the first temple on Earth.
with another words it’s rock came from space , so it’s obvious now and it was obvious before that this rock is from outside the earth
Besides, how can something pre-creation be material now if the divine is external to matter?
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i don’t understand this question :confused:
 
From a geological perspective, is it known what the rock is? That is, is it iron meteorite, or some other meteorite?
 
JHow said:
From a geological perspective, is it known what the rock is? That is, is it iron meteorite, or some other meteorite?
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The answer to that question is unknown.

Saudi Arabia will not allow the stone to be analyzed or studied by outside sources.
 
TheRealJuliane said:
I don’t think any mosques have altars! They all just face Mecca when they kneel over in prayer. What would an altar do anyway, they don’t have priests or anything…
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I didn’t think so either, but Muslims assert Adam and Eve were Muslim. So why would Adam and Eve build an altar (what did they do with it)? Why don’t mosques have altars now?
 
jakasaki said:
The answer to that question is unknown.

Saudi Arabia will not allow the stone to be analyzed or studied by outside sources.
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That is because they will fact find out it’s made from earthly materials and built by the pagans
 
dolphinlove said:
That is because they will fact find out it’s made from earthly materials and built by the pagans
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It could very well be… 🤷

But it also does not matter, whether it’s an “earthly” stone or a “meteorite” .

Meteors fall the sky all of the time.

There is no Biblical reference from the OT about Adam/Eve and this altar.

There is also no Biblical reference from the OT about Abraham & Ishmael traveling to where Mecca is today to rebuild the place.

It just seems like stuff mohamad made up as he went along to entice the Jews/Christians of the area to accept islam.
 
Answers:

Some of the reports about the black stone are dubious. Some scholars consider them authentic, some consider them doubtful. Whatever it is, though, doesn’t really matter to the average Muslims.

Muslims will try to touch or kiss it when visiting the Ka’bah but they should do so with full knowledge that it’s just a stone and can’t harm them or benefit them at all.

Moreover, I never heard any “Islamic tradition” talk about Adam and Eve building an altar.
 
OneAugustKnight said:
I didn’t think so either, but Muslims assert Adam and Eve were Muslim. So why would Adam and Eve build an altar (what did they do with it)? Why don’t mosques have altars now?
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That’s a good question.

Amy, what do you say about this? 🙂

edit: OK Adam and Eve did not build altar. But what about Abraham? He built one.
 
And, when he (his son) was old enough to walk with him, he said: “O my son! I have seen in a dream that I am slaughtering you (offer you in sacrifice to Allah), so look what you think!” He said: “O my father! Do that which you are commanded, Insha’ Allah (if Allah will), you shall find me of As-Sabirin (the patient ones, etc.).”

Then, when they had both submitted themselves (to the Will of Allah), and he had laid him prostrate on his forehead (or on the side of his forehead for slaughtering);

And We called out to him: "O Abraham!

I don’t see any mention of an altar. 🤷 But maybe there was one. Who knows?

Anyway, nothing wrong with altars in general. I’m just saying I never heard about Adam and Eve building one. Their sons offered sacrifices though, for sure, possibly on an altar.

There’s no reason to have an altar in a mosque–it doesn’t play an function in the practice of Islam. I’m not sure exactly what you’re getting at though.
 
Sister_Amy said:
And, when he (his son) was old enough to walk with him, he said: “O my son! I have seen in a dream that I am slaughtering you (offer you in sacrifice to Allah), so look what you think!” He said: “O my father! Do that which you are commanded, Insha’ Allah (if Allah will), you shall find me of As-Sabirin (the patient ones, etc.).”

Then, when they had both submitted themselves (to the Will of Allah), and he had laid him prostrate on his forehead (or on the side of his forehead for slaughtering);

And We called out to him: "O Abraham!

I don’t see any mention of an altar. 🤷 But maybe there was one. Who knows?

Anyway, nothing wrong with altars in general. I’m just saying I never heard about Adam and Eve building one. Their sons offered sacrifices though, for sure, possibly on an altar.

There’s no reason to have an altar in a mosque–it doesn’t play an function in the practice of Islam. I’m not sure exactly what you’re getting at though.
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The question is if Muslims assert that the patriarchs in the old testament were Muslim, and they offered sacrifices (possibly on an altar) then why don’t modern Muslims do this?

Wikipedia states
Islamic tradition holds that the Stone fell from Heaven to show Adam and Eve where to build an altar, which became the first temple on Earth. Muslims believe that the stone was originally pure and dazzling white, but has since turned black because of the sins of the people.[11] Adam’s altar and the stone were said to have been lost during Noah’s Flood and forgotten.
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Is there a more accurate reference that explains where the black stone is from and its significance in Islam?
 
It’s not the end all for informative websites (I hate it) but this is a decent description of the black stone and it’s history.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Stone

As for the Altar thing. I think you guys are getting hung up on what an Altar really is. We think of the Altar in the way we see it today in the Church. Several thousand years ago, an Altar could have been a rock, a slab of stone, a fallen tree, etc… Any object that served as a place to give offerings to the gods. Or give thanks to God in our case. That’s an Altar. Don’t get hung up on words.
 
I read from somewhere that it’s the same stone that the same pagans who would have built the Temple of Mecca worshipped.
 
OneAugustKnight said:
The question is if Muslims assert that the patriarchs in the old testament were Muslim, and they offered sacrifices (possibly on an altar) then why don’t modern Muslims do this?
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to offer sacrifice on an altar isn’t a significant aspect which make someone muslim or not
 
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