Islam question

[Salvo]

Very interesting posts from you all. I’d have to say my oppinion lies with Kevin V and Digit.

I have also lived in a Muslim country and when I came to the US had several Muslim friends from various countries, namely Tunisia, Iran and Somalia. The Western media, which is only just now giving any focus to Islam gives us the impression that Muslims are for the most part devout, absolute and moral (of course to their own standard). This is very far from the truth, as anyone who has lived around Muslims knows. There are of course very devout Muslims, just as there are devout Christians, Jews, Buddhists etc. But all you need to do is look at the prostitution rates in Muslim countries to know how “devout” they are.

As with most religions, how “devout” one is is merely a reflection of their public standing. Meaning if it is culturally expected for a man to have a large family, go to the Mosque each friday and fast during Ramadan then that’s what he will do in order to gain/retain his social standing. But Europe is essentially overrun by the Arab royal oligarchy/theocracies of the middle east. The way they behave when outside their countries is nothing like how they act inside them.

 

[Ken]

Islam is very diverse, and encompasses various cultures that have their own history and traditions. There is no such thing as a typical Muslim. There are Arabs who are Muslims, Turks who are Muslims, Indians who are Muslims, and Indonesians who are Muslims. All these cultures are very different.

It is a huge mistake to lump all these people together.

 

[Giovanni]

One thing we must remember is to pray for all who have not yet come to know Jesus as our Lord and Savior.
Also, a lie has great success, when the truth has been slightly twisted, as is the case with the Qur’an, where it has many similiarities with the old testament, then takes the main character of the new testament, our Lord and Savior, and takes away His divinity and makes Him a man like us. The devil deceives many, as was Mohamed when satan revealed to him the Qur’an.
Think about what is really missing from the Qur’an, God’s fulfillment of His promise in the old testament, to send the Redeemer, so that thru Him and His sacrifice of love for all of men, we may be saved, and spend eternity with Him.

 

[AmandaPS]

cute2904:

Once I had the same question like you Amanda, then I got the answer from Answering-Islam site, the author name Silas, not that much though but at least he explains :

The “We” is speaking of Islam’s god, Allah.
The Quran is full of the usage of “we” for Allah. I have heard that it denotes royality, like a British Queen would use the term “we” instead of “I” when she is speaking for herself. But, I don’t think that that is the real reason.

STILL we need some one who can explain us why God uses term US rather than I

Cute

That was my first guess, too, when I read those passages. It seemed that the royal “We” was being used, but it seems contrary to everywhere else where the term “Islamic Monotheism” is used to remind the reader that Allah is not a Trinity. Besides, did they even use the royal we in the 7th century?

I think Christians know why “Us” is used in Genesis, because of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

 

[Sunniva]

Seeker:

Sunniva - click this URL : answering-islam.org.uk/Gilchrist/Challenge/index.html. It’s a good palce to start to learn about the questions muslims ask (almost 99% of the time) whether liberal or fundamental towards Christians.

I totally understand where you come from, the “Holy Trinity” is the weakest of all Church doctrines in terms of having one right answer, yet it is who GOD is. Why should GOD to the muslims have to be fully comprehened, why can’t he be mysterious in terms of himself. Why is it soo difficult for Muslims to accept that GOD could come down to earth in the form of man, in the person of Jesus Christ, why? Is not GOD all powerful and all knowning?. Mulsims have this misconception that man became GOD, when its the other way around , GOD became man.

I have many muslims friends and I respect them and care for them as I would my family, but I have noticed one thing, no matter if they are liberal muslims or semi-liberal or fundamental muslims, they are thought when they are very young that Islam is the greatest of all religions and that Christians and Jews (especailly) are non-believers. Let me ask you, growing up in Norway, and going to Chruch there, did you ever hear the priest or pastor talk about Islam and muslims, it never happened in my church, but in their Mosques on Friday’s they are yelling on the top of their lungs about how the troubles in this world are all because of the non-believers (christians, jews, pagans…etc), but they never reflect on themselves. Only after sept 11th, some muslims like Irshad Manji (oh by-the-way, here book “trouble with Islam” is an excellent book) are coming out and speaking about what Islam has become.

Please check out the URL and buy Irshad Manji’s book, it will help you a great deal.

thanks

Seeker

(bolded by me)

Seeker,

I only went a few times when I was a kid and then only Christmas and School Services. Back then the number of Muslims was very low. It was surely not a theme for the Lutheran minister (what do we call a Lutheran “priest”…in Norwegian we only have one word for clergy and that’s “prest”).

I remember from speaches in the Mosques (in Pakistan they have loadspeakers and everybody can hear the speaches). They had often a great emphasis on how corrupt and amoral the Western society is. Westerners are not only considered to be infidels, but are also considered to be unclean since we (non-Muslim Westerners) don’t take ritual baths after the menstruation, childbirth, intercourse and so on.

 

[Sunniva]

Ken:

Islam is very diverse, and encompasses various cultures that have their own history and traditions. There is no such thing as a typical Muslim. There are Arabs who are Muslims, Turks who are Muslims, Indians who are Muslims, and Indonesians who are Muslims. All these cultures are very different.

It is a huge mistake to lump all these people together.

I agree on that one, Ken. It’s huge differences not only between the different cultures, but Islam also have a huge number of different “denominations”.

I can only speak from my experience as a woman married to a Pakistani Muslim, living in Pakistan for some years and in Norway mostly having contact with Pakistani Muslims. I did however have some female friends who were converts to Islam and married with mostly Arabic Muslims.

 

[Sunniva]

One thing we must remember is to pray for all who have not yet come to know Jesus as our Lord and Savior.
Also, a lie has great success, when the truth has been slightly twisted, as is the case with the Qur’an, where it has many similiarities with the old testament, then takes the main character of the new testament, our Lord and Savior, and takes away His divinity and makes Him a man like us. The devil deceives many, as was Mohamed when satan revealed to him the Qur’an.
Think about what is really missing from the Qur’an, God’s fulfillment of His promise in the old testament, to send the Redeemer, so that thru Him and His sacrifice of love for all of men, we may be saved, and spend eternity with Him.

Giovanni.

I’m sure that many people have prayed for me to know Jesus as my Lord and Saviour. People who don’t know who I am, but who pray for the conversion of the ones who doesn’t know Jesus as the Son of God. So don’t stop praying…it works.

What we need are prayerwarriors. Prayerwarriors who constantly pray for the conversion of Muslims and other non-Christians. There is a small group of former Muslims who have converted to Christianity (mostly Pentecostal) and they have special prayer vigils during the Ramadan (Muslim month of fasting) for the conversion of Muslims.

…It looks like I have hijacket this thread. I prefer to address people in different post rather than writing a loooonnngggg post.

 

[Salvo]

Ken,

You are right that Islam did conquer a great many diverse civilisations and peoples. And yes, certain traditions such as female circumcision and suicide bombing stem mainly from specific cultures in Africa and greater Arabia for the most part. But there are definitely generalisations of traits and characteristics amongf Muslims, just as much as there are for Catholics.

Giovanni,

What you say is very true. There is the story about how while Islam was being spread, Mohammed’s army faced a severe defeat at Medina, so to hedge his bets, he sent off his key commanders to weather the storm. They took refuge in Christian Ethiopia, where the Emperor received them and gave them exile. While there, they exalted the Glory of God, the peace of the message of Jesus Christ, son of the virgin Mary, and of the final day of judgement to come. Now, if you ONLY heard this message, as a Christian, you might at first say, “Yes, all of it is very true.” This is the beauty of Islam. They say just enough truth to get you interested when it is convenient to entice Jews and Christians. But as I said, a half-truth is a whole lie.

Sunni,

That’s definitely an interesting story. And yes, Pakistani Islam is also very cultural as opposed to the authentic Wahabism of Saudi for instance. My brother married into an Afghanistani family, and it’s basically very similar to how you described. I’m curious, I’m assuming you subsequently divorced your husband, correct?

 

[larryo]

mattyp:

maybe they don’t want to get killed by other muslims for not praying hard enough.

:tsktsk:

Great answer. I’m still chuckling.

 

[larryo]

Bud Stewart:

Islam is a religion of absolutes, no moral relativism here, and that is what many people crave. Catholicism also teaches ‘moral absolutism’, but many Catholics, including our clergy, don’t practice this. As you can see be the growth of Islam, people need to KNOW what is right and what is wrong. The Church needs educate all people, not just Catholics, that the Church holds to TRUTH.

Spread the Word, spread the Truth!

Amen, brother.

 

[Sunniva]

Salvo:

Ken,

You are right that Islam did conquer a great many diverse civilisations and peoples. And yes, certain traditions such as female circumcision and suicide bombing stem mainly from specific cultures in Africa and greater Arabia for the most part. But there are definitely generalisations of traits and characteristics amongf Muslims, just as much as there are for Catholics.

Giovanni,

What you say is very true. There is the story about how while Islam was being spread, Mohammed’s army faced a severe defeat at Medina, so to hedge his bets, he sent off his key commanders to weather the storm. They took refuge in Christian Ethiopia, where the Emperor received them and gave them exile. While there, they exalted the Glory of God, the peace of the message of Jesus Christ, son of the virgin Mary, and of the final day of judgement to come. Now, if you ONLY heard this message, as a Christian, you might at first say, “Yes, all of it is very true.” This is the beauty of Islam. They say just enough truth to get you interested when it is convenient to entice Jews and Christians. But as I said, a half-truth is a whole lie.

Sunni,

That’s definitely an interesting story. And yes, Pakistani Islam is also very cultural as opposed to the authentic Wahabism of Saudi for instance. My brother married into an Afghanistani family, and it’s basically very similar to how you described. ***I’m curious, I’m assuming you subsequently divorced your husband, correct? ***

I had to run away from my home and country in order to save my life. I had death threats hanging over my head from my then-husband and his family and friends. The fact that I wanted divorce is considered to be a severe blow to a man’s honor in certain cultures.

All the divorce proceeding took place through my lawyer over in Norway. My family had to get a restrain order against him because he and some of his friends were threatening my family in order to get my whereabouts.

There have been several murders in Norway were a man killed his wife or daughter because they in some way or another had hurt his honor. The last case was just a few days ago when an Iranian man strangled his 18 year old daughter because of (as initial theory is) adjustment problems.

I finally got my divorce last winter after a long and struggling time.

 

[Salvo]

Sunniva,

Thanks for the response. Yes, I could tell you very many stories about my brother’s “courtship” with his present wife. I’m very familiar with the whole scenario of honour killings. Aside from the fact that they are very common throughout the Muslim world (but NOT called for by Islam of course) were a not-so-rare occurence in Europe as well where there were large concentrations of Muslim populations.

I’m glad you were able to get out of the situation you spoke about. I hope there were no children involved. That can be quite messy. And I hope with all my heart that the church has given you the strength and support you need in your journey.

 

[Gratias_Grace]

Sunniva:

if you have a link to a site to a “online Quran” I would be grateful. I left my Qurans (had a couple) home when I have to flee from my home (which is another story).

Hey!

I think I have found something that will be of interest to you, when you from time to time meet people who want to discuss the Quran.

Norwegian (not only the Quran, but also about “Hadith” etc):
koranen.no/

American:
hti.umich.edu/k/koran/

Hope everything is well withe you! Send my best wishes for your convertion and for a good life!

God Bless!

G.G.